India fuming over Russia lifting its Pakistan arms embargo, what next?

[illusion8]

Correct! Actually Russia has to counter Chinese duplicate export too, plus post 2014 situation will be interesting for Russian.

What do you mean by countering chinese here?

 

[Screambowl]

What do you mean by countering chinese here?

their defense export, which is a copy of russian designs. Not necessarily to Pakistan but in Asia.

 

[illusion8]

their defense export, which is a copy of russian designs. Not necessarily to Pakistan but in Asia.

Yes, they are inter competing in most markets that do not buy western or are liable to buy western. So you saying that Russia intends to become the OEM themselves directly in most of the traditional Chinese markets instead of the buyers buying Chinese copies of Russian hardware make them buy Russian directly...is it? that's a good point.

They made a move towards North Korea too simultaneously when they made a move to Pakistan and we all know how both are over dependent on China - so your point seems quite logical.

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

Well-informed Indian diplomats told me on Thursday that the Russian decision would actually be the proverbial last straw on the camel’s back if Moscow does not abandon this move.
Though there have been no official statements so far, it seems that India would like Russia to scrap its plans to lift arms sale embargo on Pakistan completely. Nothing less than that would satisfy New Delhi.

Hmm.....

So, all he is saying is his own made up statements rather then anything official.

So much of Fuming!!!!

 

[Screambowl]

Yes, they are inter competing in most markets that do not buy western or are liable to buy western. So you saying that Russia intends to become the OEM themselves directly in most of the traditional Chinese markets instead of the buyers buying Chinese copies of Russian hardware...is it? that's a good point.

They made a move towards North Korea too simultaneously when they made a move to Pakistan and we all know how both are over dependent on China - so your point seems quite logical.

In Burma, the Mig29 was preferred over JF-17. Because JF-17 is a major threat to Russian Mig 29 not on the basis of performance but because it is a cheap aircraft and some developing countries will start with a cheaper one. Plus India is alleged to have paid Russia to supply transport helis to Af. for development project. India needs to play a bigger role a mediater in deal.

 

[illusion8]

In Burma, the Mig29 was preferred over JF-17. Because JF-17 is a major threat to Russian Mig 29 not on the basis of performance but because it is a cheap aircraft and some developing countries will start with a cheaper one. Plus India is alleged to have paid Russia to supply transport helis to Af. for development project. India needs to play a bigger role a mediater in deal.

You lost me there again..

How does opening sales to traditional Chinese customers - Pakistan and North Korea - come into the picture of what you said there, plus what does it have to do with Indian paid Russian supplies to Afghan forces?

 

[Screambowl]

You lost me there again..

How does opening sales to traditional Chinese customers - Pakistan and North Korea - come into the picture of what you said there, plus what does it have to do with Indian paid Russian supplies to Afghan forces?

I was bringing up the complete picture, that in whole of the region Russia has potential buyers but chinese have countered it well. India operates almost every advanced aircraft which Russia builds but India cannot mediate into NK and Pak affairs with Russia.

Pakistan is the only buffer point where the rivers divert. But Afghanistan is a substitute to Pakistan.

 

[illusion8]

I was bringing up the complete picture, that in whole of the region Russia has potential buyers but chinese have countered it well. India operates almost every advanced aircraft which Russia builds but India cannot mediate into NK and Pak affairs with Russia.

Pakistan is the only buffer point where the rivers divert. But Afghanistan is a substitute to Pakistan.

You are confusing it Bro - or at least me in the bargain.

Karzai came with a laundry list of supplies that he desired from India and India obliged by lining up Russia to be the supplier, the Afghans are used to Russian arms anyways. This deal has nothing to do with Russia and China desiring to increase their global arms sales and competing with one another.
Yes, Russia supplies to Iran, China, India, Bangladesh, Burma and have begun supplies to Afghanistan too, but what does that have to do with their intended supplies to Pakistan and NK?

 

[Screambowl]

You are confusing it Bro - or at least me in the bargain.

Karzai came with a laundry list of supplies that he desired from India and India obliged by lining up Russia to be the supplier, the Afghans are used to Russian arms anyways. This deal has nothing to do with Russia and China desiring to increase their global arms sales and competing with one another.
Yes, Russia supplies to Iran, China, India, Bangladesh, Burma and have begun supplies to Afghanistan too, but what does that have to do with their intended supplies to Pakistan and NK?

NK is to counter the US, so Russia will need to have its more influence. About Pakistan, I don't think the current heli deal will even close. It is a fuss. But yes, may be if India can go to west, then Russia might feel doubtful as India felt during Gorshkov.

 

[illusion8]

NK is to counter the US, so Russia will need to have its more influence. About Pakistan, I don't think the current heli deal will even close. It is a fuss. But yes, may be if India can go to west, then Russia might feel doubtful as India felt during Gorshkov.

Who knows - they might supply a few heli's to Pakistan - they claim they did in the past - and I honestly don't understand the hoopla about doing it again.

 

[Basel]

Nopes, if anything it puts Americans in the corner, remember, Pakistan gets Russian engines through China.... do the Russians object. !! ??

Even if Pakistan don't purchase anything we may see Russia keeping blind eye on sale of equipment which China copied and improved or have Russian components, because Russia is in no position to lose China, specially after Ukraine crisis China is much more important to them then India, and that put Pakistan in very good position if we play our cards well. In my opinion if we want some thing from Russia which they have better then China then we should try to get thing through China as India's influence will be mitigated.

 

[kalu_miah]

No way will this happen in 10 years- the Russians have decades upon decades of expertise that is second only to the US in defence products. China, despite what they say, won't be overtaking Russia on the technology front for a long long time. The Russians had a dip in form post the collapse of the Soviet union but now they are getting up to speed again and aren't going to sit by and allow the likes of China to overtake them.

Isn't that a bit of wishful thinking? What if your thinking is wrong and Chinese tech becomes actually better than Russian ones, lets say a hypothetical scenario, what is India's strategy then? India will still be buying inferior Russian weapons systems?

 

[UKBengali]

Isn't that a bit of wishful thinking? What if your thinking is wrong and Chinese tech becomes actually better than Russian ones, lets say a hypothetical scenario, what is India's strategy then? India will still be buying inferior Russian weapons systems?

He is Indian so naturally does not want China to beat Russia in weapons tech for obvious reasons.

What Indians should take note of is that Chinese tanks are just as good as Russians and Chinese destroyers are way superior to anything that Russia has

Overall, the two countries are about equal now in military tech but China is progressing faster and should be equal to or better than Russia in all areas by 2020.

 

[waz]

I don't believe India is "fuming" over a few helicopters, which will aid in eliminating terrorist vermin. India has numerous complex defence deals with the Russians and these are long duration projects.

India has also bought from the US e.g. Globemasters and is soon to ink contracts for the Apache.....The Russians were not "fuming" either. The Russians also know Pakistan will not ask for"big ticket" items due to India being very familiar with them.

 

[Screambowl]

Who knows - they might supply a few heli's to Pakistan - they claim they did in the past - and I honestly don't understand the hoopla about doing it again.

it is not yet a closed deal, and not a big news yet. Just a possibility.