India claims Pakistan was scared

[MastanKhan]

My friend, you are not entirely accurate. When Pak released him, Indians threat of missile attack was there. Further escalations were going on, which are until this day.
Secondly, remember what PM IK said, we are releasing him as gesture of goodwill.
So it was goodwill, not necessarily under the Geneva Convention or a treaty as you put it.
Secondly, the excuse of not attacking and destroying Indian jets is used as "act or declaration of war" by many on this forum.
If war was not going on, when on 26th Feb 19 Indians attacked or on 27th When Pakistan attacked, why Abhi was a POW!!
And if war was going on and he was PoW, why shooting down of IAF jets across the border was "declaration of war", when war was already on!!

Hi,

India had already declared war a few days before the attack---. They openly claimed to strike targets in pakistan---.

Taking the spice bomb strike not as an act of war showed that pakistan had weak feet to stand on---.

American Pressure to release Abhinonedon. Calls from their senior leadership.

Hi,

It was more of a saudi pressure---. Saudia was hot at pakistan---angry about yemen debacle---.

Now they are stepping back a tad bit---.

 

[BHarwana]

It is trail of events that lead you to conclusion. You do not want to believe it is your decision.

Remember Sadui FM's scheduled visit was delayed. Perhaps Saudi's wanted to make sure their demands would be met before they sent in their FM.

Saudi FM came for a different reason which cannot be shared in public domain. America asked for the release of Abhinandan not Saudis and there was no pressure on Pakistan for it. It was a request. 19 years USA in Afghanistan could not pressure us on do more and this small event would have pressured us?
Seriously you need to start thinking with context of the geopolitical situation around you. You like to connect the dots start processing a bigger picture not just one frame to understand things that will help you more. I have seen 100% accurate news being actual myths underneath.

 

[Khan vilatey]

Green book is not some reader's digest that anyone can get hold of it easily.

I remember them being at the army central library for any one to read, these were not secret documents but more public relations documents

KV

 

[ejaz007]

Saudi FM came for a different reason which cannot be shared in public domain. America asked for the release of Abhinandan not Saudis and there was no pressure on Pakistan for it. It was a request. 19 years USA in Afghanistan could not pressure us on do more and this small event would have pressured us?
Seriously you need to start thinking with context of the geopolitical situation around you. You like to connect the dots start processing a bigger picture not just one frame to understand things that will help you more. I have seen 100% accurate news being actual myths underneath.

There is a lot that can not be shared on a public forum. This event has a lot of aspects. What Pakistan gained or lost can not be fully discussed/disclosed on this forum.

For many 27th February was the peak of the event but what happened after 27th February desires a lot more attention for our military and political planners.

 

[BHarwana]

There is a lot that can not be shared on a public forum. This event has a lot of aspects. What Pakistan gained or lost can not be fully discussed/disclosed on this forum.

For many 27th February was the peak of the event but what happened after 27th February desires a lot more attention for our military and political planners.

India is following Israeli model of deterance. On 27th Feb India tried to copy Israeli and did airstrikes but their planners failed to recognize Pakistani capabilities and India got hurt it is as simple as that.

 

[ejaz007]

India is following Israeli model of deterance. On 27th Feb India tried to copy Israeli and did airstrikes but their planners failed to recognize Pakistani capabilities and India got hurt it is as simple as that.

If what you say is correct than Indians are the biggest fools on this earth.

There is no comparison between the situation in Israel Vs Palestinians and India Vs Pakistan. We have a robust military which Palestinians do not have.

 

[BHarwana]

If what you say is correct than Indians are the biggest fools on this earth.

There is no comparison between the situation in Israel Vs Palestinians and India Vs Pakistan. We have a robust military which Palestinians do not have.

what else do you think it is. What else cam India achieve from this type of childish acts? What they did was purely childish.

 

[crankthatskunk]

India attacked Pakistan cause we had abhinandan in the first place? Do you think we are scared of Indian missiles which are not even nuclear capable?
Why did India threatened missile attack and an air strike?

India threatened a Missile attack cause India knew air strike is not possible and Pakistani potential to defend air space is higher. If India had launched a Missile strike before we would have known that the strike was convential or nuclear we would have launched a nuclear one India knew it and we also know it.

These are 2 nuclear armed countries they are not your daily humor jokes. These 2 countries can destroy half of humanity much faster than covid19 can. You people are thinking so small. Do you even know how nuclear deterance works?

you my friend have changed tag rapidly. In this effort you accepted that the Indians threatened us at the time we released Abhi. So war wasn't over. First you said we released him due to the treaty. Now you have thrown the argument of treaty obligations and that of Geneva Convention in to the dustbin. Not very good going in a debate.

Now look at your new arguments.
1- India attacked us first on 26th Feb, correct!! Was their attack an act of WAR!!
2- Pakistan then attacked India on 27th Feb in response, was Pakistani attack an act of WAR!! For your argument that Abhi was a PoW, the above two had to be acts of war. Otherwise there was no chance that Abhi was Pow.
3- Now comes the question, if we knew India has declared war on 26th, if not earlier, why we didn't order shooting down of Indian jets across the border!! Why we were worried that it would be declaration of war , when war was already underway!!
4- If war was not underway on 26th, Why Pakistani retaliated!! Only Pakistan's retaliation became act of war that as a consequence Abhi became PoW!!
5- If war was going on, on 27th Feb, why PAF didn't shot down all 9 Indian jets, they had locked on!! Were they worried about escalation at the minute their retaliation was underway!!
6- You said that if India demanded Abhi's release, it would have perceived to given to Indian demands. I am certain that they were already demanding his release, if you want many clips can be produced about Indian's hue and cry.
7- Missiles were targeting Pakistani sites. As much as we know, the strikes were already planned, but Pakistan got the intelligence and went through their friends to pass the message to India that Pakistan would retaliate 1:3 ratio.
8- Indians deterred from Air Strikes because they knew they would be humiliated. They should have been on both 26th and 27th, we let them off the hook. You and others have repeatedly said, it would have escalated the hostilities. But you yourself are now admitting that Indians were only deterred because of their capacity issues. If they have capacity , they would have attacked.
So why we didn't use our capacity on both days and caused enormous damage to the Indians and set them back for years!!!

 

[BHarwana]

you my friend have changed tag rapidly. In this effort you accepted that the Indians threatened us at the time we released Abhi. So war wasn't over. First you said we released him due to the treaty. Now you have thrown the argument of treaty obligations and that of Geneva Convention in to the dustbin. Not very good going in a debate.

Now look at your new arguments.
1- India attacked us first on 26th Feb, correct!! Was their attack an act of WAR!!
2- Pakistan then attacked India on 27th Feb in response, was Pakistani attack an act of WAR!! For your argument that Abhi was a PoW, the above two had to be acts of war. Otherwise there was no chance that Abhi was Pow.
3- Now comes the question, if we knew India has declared war on 26th, if not earlier, why we didn't order shooting down of Indian jets across the border!! Why we were worried that it would be declaration of war , when war was already underway!!
4- If war was not underway on 26th, Why Pakistani retaliated!! Only Pakistan's retaliation became act of war that as a consequence Abhi became PoW!!
5- If war was going on, on 27th Feb, why PAF didn't shot down all 9 Indian jets, they had locked on!! Were they worried about escalation at the minute their retaliation was underway!!
6- You said that if India demanded Abhi's release, it would have perceived to given to Indian demands. I am certain that they were already demanding his release, if you want many clips can be produced about Indian's hue and cry.
7- Missiles were targeting Pakistani sites. As much as we know, the strikes were already planned, but Pakistan got the intelligence and went through their friends to pass the message to India that Pakistan would retaliate 1:3 ratio.
8- Indians deterred from Air Strikes because they knew they would be humiliated. They should have been on both 26th and 27th, we let them off the hook. You and others have repeatedly said, it would have escalated the hostilities. But you yourself are now admitting that Indians were only deterred because of their capacity issues. If they have capacity , they would have attacked.
So why we didn't use our capacity on both days and caused enormous damage to the Indians and set them back for years!!!

First of all about Indian missiles threat. That was no threat here is a CIA declassified document. About prithvi it is not nuclear capable.

 

[crankthatskunk]

India is following Israeli model of deterance. On 27th Feb India tried to copy Israeli and did airstrikes but their planners failed to recognize Pakistani capabilities and India got hurt it is as simple as that.

Yeah agreed on this point.
Now let's extend it a tad bit. India is still following Israeli tactics to the core in IoK. is she not!!
India is not deterred. It has step back from attack, until it gets what it needs to be successful in the future.
S 400 and Rafale and capacity of meteor is mentioned by the Indians time and again. Further procurement from Israel of different missiles by India is pointing to the direction that it is just a lull before the storm.
If people cannot learn from Modi's open announcement that if Rafale was inducted by India the result would have been different.
My argument is simple. Pakistan should have given Indians a bloody nose, by destroying all the 6 targets and downing all 9 jets they locked on. That would have deterred India. Not deterrence shown by Pakistan.

So, what Pakistan has done , by your own admissions is that delayed the inevitable a little. Given the advantage to the enemy to prepare itself properly to attack again and perhaps succeed this time. In that scenario the nuclear war you mentioned would be a real real possibility.

So,what Pakistan really gained!!
Please don't give me that argument that Pakistan won international acclaims. Your politicians and planners all agree that if hostilities breaks Pakistan would be standing alone to fight it.
Do you seriously think USA, Europe or even Russia would take Pakistani side!!

They will happily supply Indians the arms, missile, jets of their choice while declining Pakistan.
Friend, don't argue for the sake of arguments, when whatever you say goes against your own point of view

@MastanKhan

 

[SIPRA]

India wanted to deescalate, after Balakot air strike; in fact, never wanted to escalate beyond the said strike. Pakistan also wanted to deescalate, after carrying out its retaliatory strike on Feb 27. To make this deescalation possible, Pakistan released Abhinandan, which was not a big deal, in any case.

 

[crankthatskunk]

First of all about Indian missiles threat. That was no threat here is a CIA declassified document. About prithvi it is not nuclear capable.

View attachment 628356

Please don't show me American document. I have said that repeatedly to the Indians that despite their shouting from the roof tops about their missiles. Indian has inducted very few missiles in to its forces. And their capabilities are far inferior.
But your problem is contradiction of your own arguments. Before you said threat of nuclear war was real if Pakistan had retaliated with full might of Indian aggression. More people would have died compared to Coronavirus.
Now you saying India is not capable of launching nuclear missiles.

 

[BHarwana]

Please don't show me American document. I have said that repeatedly to the Indians that despite their shouting from the roof tops about their missiles. Indian has inducted very few missiles in to its forces. And their capabilities are far inferior.
But your problem is contradiction of your own arguments. Before you said threat of nuclear war was real if Pakistan had retaliated with full might of Indian aggression. More people would have died compared to Coronavirus.
Now you saying India is not capable of launching nuclear missiles.

I am not contradicting.
1. India is in no position to make threats.
2. POW had to go due to treaty
3. USA made request to return. There was no pressure.
Hope this helps.
4. Bhai roza hai.

Indian problem is not missiles. it is their war head which is too heavy.

 

[PakSword]

India wanted to deescalate, after Balakot air strike; in fact, never wanted to escalate beyond the said strike. Pakistan also wanted to deescalate, after carrying out its retaliatory strike on Feb 27. To make this deescalation possible, Pakistan released Abhinandan, which was not a big deal, in any case.

Indians didn't want escalation in the first place that's why they dropped the bombs on uninhabited land and killed some trees. They thought Indian public will be satisfied as it doesn't want any proofs from BJP led government, and Pakistan will not escalate it further because she will be confused about the reason for escalation after losing nothing. Indian government wanted a similar reaction from its public like it received in 2016 after fake surgical strikes, but this time they had to show something new.

But to their surprise, Pakistan responded this time.

I can't believe that Indians didn't miss the targets purposefully.

 

[crankthatskunk]

I am not contradicting.
1. India is in no position to make threats.
2. POW had to go due to treaty
3. USA made request to return. There was no pressure.
Hope this helps.
4. Bhai roza hai.

Indian problem is not missiles. it is their war head which is too heavy.

Ok, no prob, mera bhi roza hai, and I have not slept yet. So i am going to bed now.
I agree, there was no risk of nuclear war, Indians do not have capacity.
Now comes the thorny issue, many people here argued if Pakistan had retaliated heavily, hitting 6 targets direct rather than diverting the bombs and shot down all 9 jets, the hostilities would have increased.

But how!! Indians do not have capacities.

The End.