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India, China & the Indian ocean

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India, China & the Indian ocean

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by B.Raman

The following are my answers to some questions on the above-mentioned subject received by me by E-Mail from an Italian journalist:

(March 04, Chennai, Sri Lanka Guardian) Gwadar in Pakistan, Hambantota in Sri Lanka, Akyab Cheduba and Bassein in Myanmar, to Chittagong in Bangladesh: India is afraid of the Chinese invasion of the Indian Ocean?

I will not use the word "invasion". India ought to be worried about the Chinese acquiring a power projection capability onshore and offshore in the Indian Ocean area.Gwadar, Gambantota etc are only one aspect of it. A more worrisom aspect, I feel, is the increase in the political and economic influence of China.India has the capability to counter the Chinese effectively on the sea---by itself as well as in co-operation with the US. Its ability to counter the Chinese influence onshore is very weak.The present Government headed by Dr.Manmohan Singh believes in maintaining a silence on this issue. Its silence will prove counter-productive.The rapidity with which the Chinese have evacuated their nationals (30,000) from Libya speaks very highly of the assets---political and strategic---that they have built up for themselves in the Indian Ocean and other far-flung areas.The slowness of the Indian evacuation machinery stands in sharp contrast.Our crisis management capability in far-flung areas came in for praise during the Tsunami of December 2004. Compared to our response in December 2004, our response this time has been found wanting.

The US-India alliance can be explained as an anti Chinese alliance?

There is no alliance presently. There is only talk of an alliance. What we need is not an alliance against China, but mutual co-operation to protect the onshore and offshore interests--- political, economic and strategic--- of India and the US in the Indian Ocean region and in North Africa. There has been no thinking on this subject. We wait for ideas to come from the US and then react to them. Instead we should take the initiative in strategising and then find ways of making the US part of this strategy born in the Indian brain.That kind of strategic thinking on what India and the US can and should do individually and jointly has not been there.

Most of the imports and exports pass through the Straits of Malacca. This is one of the weaknesses of the Asian giant? As China moves to overcome this weakness? The stability of Asia could be jeopardized by the Malacca dilemma?

The Malacca Dilemma worries China. We have no Malacca Dilemma at present beccause very little of India's energy supplies come from the region to the east of India. Our energy supplies still largely come from the West.China's Malacca Dilemma provides strategic and tactical opportunities for us to see that it is not able to address this dilemma effectively. Identification of these opportunities and thinking of ways of exploiting them should engage the attention of Indian strategic thinkers and planners.You are asking whether China's Malacca Dilemma could destabilise Asia. I don't think so in a strategic sense. On the contrary it could add to the vulnerabilities of China. In addressing this dilemma, Beijing has been putting many of its eggs in the basket of the military regime in Myanmar just as the US put many of its strategic eggs in the basket of the Suharto regime in Indonesia. Military regimes don't last for ever. The Myanmar military regime is bound to collapse one day just as the Suharto regime collapsed in Indonesia. The US, being a super power with vast resources and capabilities was able to quickly come out of its difficulties when the military regime in Jakarta collapsed. Will China be able to come out of its difficulties without serious damage if and when the military regime collapses in Myanmar? That question needs examination.

The missions in the Gulf of Aden of the Chinese navy what kind of information they give us about the military power of China?


It shows that China has still gaps in its power projection capability. The Chinese Navy has vast financial and technical resources, but it is not yet in a position to project China's power in far-flung areas. The US and Indian Navies will continue to maintain their off-shore pre-eminence in the short and possibly medium-terms. Can they do so long term? The US Navy is multi-dimensional in its thinking. The Chinese and Indian Navies are uni-dimensional--- with the Chinese naval thinking still focussed on the Pacific and the Indian Naval thinking on the Indian Oceam region. China is now trying to emulate the US by developing a multi-dimensional thinking. It is in the common interests of India and the US to keep the Chinese thinking unidimensional.

( The author is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical Studies, Chennai, and Associate of the Chennai Centre For China Studies.)

Sri Lanka Guardian: India, China & the Indian ocean
 
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listen dude, there is no Chinese invasion of the Indian Ocean. because the indian ocean belongs to the entire human race, not india/indians.
you can just take it, or we can help to let you learn in a hard way.

this is not rocket science, Southern China Sea is NOT China's sea, indian ocean is NOT india's ocean.

please just think about it: if we are going to have any conflict in indian ocean, will you be able to defend your land border with China? the facts is not that fancy, our cheap guided rockets can directly hit delhi from our land. we have thousands of launchers deployed. yes, you can build more airports, deploy more Russian made fighters there, but are they going to survive the first wave of our CJ-10 missiles?

it is never about the indian ocean, the truth is simple: our economy is 4 times as big as yours, the vast majority of our weapons are designed and made in China while you have to import everything from russia, we are not operating on the same level, such conflict will only damage your national interests.
 
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^^ we have missiles, guided rockets, and thousands of launchers as well...and what if we attack you in retaliation? will your planes be able to surives the 'first wave' of attack? Look im not trying to pick up a fight. it is cleat that china is more advanced and outnumbers india and that you guys are better off than us.. old news. And Indian navy is one of the largest and strongest navy's in Asia and we have a duty to keep indian ocean safe. Just like it is your duty to keep soutch china sea safe. And frankly speaking china can not teach any lesson to india the hard way or any other way.
 
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I'll put this in simple words even the author can understand: ever remember what happened to other regimes that thought they could play the US off against others? Like Iran in 1953?

The indian ocean does not belong to India. If India was to cut off the straits, the first ones to cry would be Japan and South Korea. We have Pakistan, Russia and Kazakhstan too, after all, and our own oil buried in the ground that we refuse to drill; Japan and South Korea have nothing and totally rely on Gulf oil. And even if cutting off the straits would harm us in the long term, we still have enough strategic oil supplies for 3 years. Now here's the question: Do you think India can hold off on land for 3 years in a total war against China?
 
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I'll put this in simple words even the author can understand: ever remember what happened to other regimes that thought they could play the US off against others? Like Iran in 1953?

The indian ocean does not belong to India. If India was to cut off the straits, the first ones to cry would be Japan and South Korea. We have Pakistan, Russia and Kazakhstan too, after all, and our own oil buried in the ground that we refuse to drill; Japan and South Korea have nothing and totally rely on Gulf oil. And even if cutting off the straits would harm us in the long term, we still have enough strategic oil supplies for 3 years. Now here's the question: Do you think India can hold off on land for 3 years in a total war against China?

India as a modern nation has never fought a total war, or even a prolonged war like Korea. The level of experience with war both militarily and as a nation are incomparable
 
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I am going to offer you a detailed analysis:

^^ we have missiles, guided rockets, and thousands of launchers as well...

show me a single rocket launcher that can launch your domestic built 200km range rocket.

For ours, please google WS-2. in fact, WS-2 is not the best we have.

and what if we attack you in retaliation? will your planes be able to surives the 'first wave' of attack?

Do you have any cruise missile that is remotely comparable to our CJ-10?

I am Chinese, I don't like big mouth talking, I want facts, numbers, stats. Show me your CJ-10 comparable missiles please.


Look im not trying to pick up a fight. it is cleat that china is more advanced and outnumbers india and that you guys are better off than us.. old news.

The regime in new delhi knows this, however they refuse to honestly tell your people this truth. How many times you saw indians crying that the 1962 war is not going to be repeated?

old news? probably not.

a lot of indians are brainwashed to believe today's india vs China outcome will be better than the one in 1962. Check stats please.




And Indian navy is one of the largest and strongest navy's in Asia and we have a duty to keep indian ocean safe. Just like it is your duty to keep soutch china sea safe. And frankly speaking china can not teach any lesson to india the hard way or any other way.

We taught you a lessen in 1962 during our war.
In the past 30 years, we did it again, our practical attitude and hard working tradition beat your big mouth.

BTW, I don't want to judge your navy, it is never considered as an "enemy" of ours, it simply doesn't deserve to be one. How many ships are built in india? how many of them are equipped with indian engines? how many of them are using indian built radar, missile? india bought 45 Harrier fighters in total, 34 of them crashed during normal non-combat operation, as of writting, only 11 of the 45 survived. Such an armed force poses no threat to China.

Last but not least, let's be crystal clear: indian ocean belongs to the entire human race, every country in this world are entitled to access it freely under the international laws and treaties. in case of any provoking action from the india navy to deny such rights, I would urge our armed forces to directly hit your capital and largest cities. india must obey the laws, or we make it obey the laws. you pick one.
 
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India as a modern nation has never fought a total war, or even a prolonged war like Korea. The level of experience with war both militarily and as a nation are incomparable

it took a couple of days for their elite special forces to locate and eliminate those couple of terrorists during the mumbai attack.

the entire world saw the real capacity of india's armed forces.
 
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it took a couple of days for their elite special forces to locate and eliminate those couple of terrorists during the mumbai attack.

the entire world saw the real capacity of india's armed forces.

and for the same as u called to yourself so called hard working and realistic, then why u copy everything from other contries. and why did u make treaty of panchseal. if u had bravo u did not made this type of treaty and then attack on us.

well peace fool for your kind information there was one more war was played between china and india after 1962. Can you say about its result? see the wiki.
 
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it took a couple of days for their elite special forces to locate and eliminate those couple of terrorists during the mumbai attack.

the entire world saw the real capacity of india's armed forces.

Our soldiar thinks about not their lives but of people of india. understand bro of wangfu
 
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and for the same as u called to yourself so called hard working and realistic, then why u copy everything from other contries. and why did u make treaty of panchseal. if u had bravo u did not made this type of treaty and then attack on us.

well peace fool for your kind information there was one more war was played between china and india after 1962. Can you say about its result? see the wiki.

Another ignorant soul who thinks the skirmishes after 1962 were some kind of Indian victory. Bravo BR.
 
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what was result of skirmishes. just we shouted u stop and you stat thinging are they soldiar of 1962. forget i shall going to leave it. i mind well for u tvsram is enough. don` t vest your energy write anything here.
 
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what was result of skirmishes. just we shouted u stop and you stat thinging are they soldiar of 1962. forget i shall going to leave it. i mind well for u tvsram is enough. don` t vest your energy write anything here.

Yes please do leave before you further embarrass yourself with more nonsense.
 
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Although there many failed states in the region that would gladly ally with China in an attempt to limit India's regional power, China cannot change the fact that the Indian Ocean will inevitably become (de facto) India's Ocean over the next few decades.

India's control over the Indian Ocean is not aimed at anyone or anything, just as China's control is not aimed at anyone or anything. Both countries are interested in the Indian Ocean to secure their trade, especially China.

This may be an overoptimistic prediction, and I don't trust the Americans by any means, but if India's Navy continues to expand at the current rate, and if Indo-US relations continue at the current pace, then I think India can displace the USN as the dominant power in the Indian Ocean after the lease on Diego Garcia expires (I think that's in 2036?).
 
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embarras? oh man?


Funny what you call victories in India

1967
two platoons sized patrols met and exchanged fire over the course of a day, 1 killed on the PLA side and 4 killed on the IA side. (wikipedia claims PLA INVASION REPELLED!!!! The number of Indians fighting the edit war on that page probably outnumbers the total combatants)

1987
Both sides mobilized after something or other and neither side acted. Clearly an Indian victory.


Really this all just a manifestation of how vulnerable India felt after 1962. The public is so desperate for reassurance that politicians started claiming anything and everything as a victory/proof that India no longer at the mercy of the PLA.
 
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