India cannot defeat Pakistan militarily

[Mirzali Khan]

The small shit talk about economies, etc is all bullshit. Our country is not even built for these small stuff, we’re big leagues man

Tell that to the people standing in line for atta.

 

[Olympus81]

To be honest, why would India growing at GDP 5%+ would want to mess with Pakistan.

The Indian government would be reasonably happy at Pakistan’s state and continuous stunted economic situation. That eventually will compromise its security. In the long term, they’d hope Pakistan doesn’t go down to the dogs and they have to deal with an extremely unstable country. Something Pakistan has to deal with Afghanistan.

The military inc and their crooked politicians have done alot of damage to Pakistan, something Pakistan’s enemies could only dream of. However, I think April ‘22 was a watershed moment when the public had the proverbial veil removed, and now slowly Pakistan will be on the path of true democracy, strong institutions, accountability and eventually economic prosperity.

 

[xyxmt]

"A former Cop's" book on India's Military and Strategic objectives and clarity, excellent insights it must have got in that book of his.

but a Journalist is qualified to do so?

 

[indushek]

One has to admit this, with some sadness, sadness because in the south, or in the east, or the north-east, there is really no positive sentiment towards Pakistan. In the south includes Hyderabad; people here in India have their own problems and challenges, and extending sympathy to a troublesome neighbour doesn't come into day-to-day thinking.

It is true that most Indians, even those, particularly those outside north India would wish that India would have a more helpful and supportive attitude towards a distressed neighbour. However, even those opposed to the present regime reluctantly accept that their policy of withdrawing from interactions with the Pakistani establishment is justified, in view of the foolhardy, suicidal policy of the PA/ISI/Foreign Ministry of provoking India constantly.


This deliberate British policy is overdue, grossly overdue for change, and once it inevitably changes, that residual sympathy within the armed forces will shrink. In the civilian population, it will remain for some time longer, among, let it be noted, among the majority community, and among those who emigrated from what is now Pakistan.


Presumably you are referring to Indian politicians, when you say 'they'.

While the pre-2014 lot were lackadaisical and distracted and corrupt to some extent, they were not virulent bigots with empty heads like the pack today. They have actually led us backwards, on every single point except the brilliant success of the UPI system.

Agreed on all of the above points, but for the post 2014 analysis.

We can surely agree to disagree there, as I don't feel we have done that bad.

The current lot I feel is a necessary event that had to happen, to the lot that existed pre 2014 and you know the family about which am talking here. They got away with too many things, and in a democracy this got to happen. I have no special love for this lot, but I really enjoy seeing the older lot squirm and gasp for breath. Particularly the liberal lot, who have selective amnesia about everything under the sun and define definitions to their advantage lol.

The reason I was mentioning about bare minimum education, and then the differences along with short time of two to three generations at max is not just for us public but for the ones in power as well. fifty plus years of our existence and one party, three generations directly and one generation indirectly had power of over all. That is puke inducing levels of power, and on other hand we have this lot who haven't had much experience.

If we have given nearly six decades to a family, why not fewer at least to these. As their rule continues so many so called voices of reasons or intellect get unmasked, and I enjoy it a lot.

but a Journalist is qualified to do so?

He is certainly within his rights to write as a Journalist, not "qualified" though. Unless he has certain number of years under his belt writing about strategic matters, and his articles have been found to be well researched and found to be worthwhile by experts in these matters.

There is something called area of expertise, and globally it's left to the experts.

 

[indushek]

You are quite right on this point. I have to agree 100%.

Sometimes I think that the foreigner, including the Pakistani who has never visited I
India, can have no idea, none whatsoever, about the incredibly diversity of India - ethnic, linguistic, religious, cultural. It is pointless telling them about this aspect.

It sometimes makes me wonder, or perhaps realize how every two bit warlord was able to conquer and govern us (Read the current map and I am not talking of just South).

I really hope and pray when I think of this, that further generations realize this and never forget this. Maybe it was supposed to be a lesson for generations to come

 

[CallSignMaverick]

India is the economical shoopah phawa. Yet Indian illegally going to USA

TikTok - Make Your Day

So if some brown guys are going anywhere illegally, India's economic growth is a lie...

Learning new things every day.

 

[Joe Shearer]

We can surely agree to disagree there, as I don't feel we have done that bad.

We have, elsewhere, been discussing hard numbers that show rather a different picture.

However, we can, as you put it, agree to disagree. We will have to, as my position is that there has been nothing positive done by this government in ten years, with one exception, the resounding success of UPI.

The current lot I feel is a necessary event that had to happen, to the lot that existed pre 2014 and you know the family about which am talking here. They got away with too many things, and in a democracy this got to happen. I have no special love for this lot, but I really enjoy seeing the older lot squirm and gasp for breath.

To be honest, I have nothing against that family, and no inclination to gloat over their present squirming and gasping for breath. Never having been a Congress supporter, I have nothing for that family either, except certain very limited reservations about Nehru, major reservations about Indira Gandhi, and serious exceptions to some actions of Rajive Gandhi, specifically, his regressive attitude towards the Shah Bano judgement, his clandestine opening of the lock on the Babri Masjid locked up portion, and his utterly wrong interference with Sri Lanka, and withdrawal after an unsuccessful intervention, leaving the Tamils to their fate.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The reason I was mentioning about bare minimum education, and then the differences along with short time of two to three generations at max is not just for us public but for the ones in power as well. fifty plus years of our existence and one party, three generations directly and one generation indirectly had power of over all. That is puke inducing levels of power, and on other hand we have this lot who haven't had much experience.

Not very clear.

It seems that there is a perception of a monopoly of power, that others may or may not share. I do not share this perception, but have no problems with those who do share it.

That said, there is zero justification in that supposed concentration of power for the bungling of the present 'lot'. If they haven't had much experience, they shouldn't try to do social engineering.

It would have been better if they had acquired knowledge of governance (their episode in Gujarat hardly qualifies; some would say, from 2002, that it was actually a disqualification). It would have been better if they had not launched blatant assaults on the institutions, and played every card to bring them to heel. It would have been better if they had not misused central agencies and central ministries to harass the opposition, and non-political dissidents.

Some might say that these were manipulations that had started before they ever came to authority, manipulations practised by their predecessors. Surely the point here is that two wrongs do not make a right.

 

[nahtanbob]

How did Pakistan become economically weak? Cuz afaik Pakistan was pretty economically strong.

When was Pakistan ever strong ? In the 1960s supposedly when Pakistan was better than South Korea you were receiving living on handouts

 

[Joe Shearer]

If we have given nearly six decades to a family, why not fewer at least to these. As their rule continues so many so called voices of reasons or intellect get unmasked, and I enjoy it a lot.

That 'if' is a rather large assumption, and not true, in my personal opinion.

As for the so-called voices of reason or of intellect getting unmasked, some examples might help. Unfortunately, one reason why we must agree to disagree, harassing students in JNU of a leftist persuasion, assaulting students within the library of Jamia Millia Islamia, harassing to the point of suicide dalit students in Hyderabad, encouraging hate speech, and turning a blind eye to the riots that ensued, describing farmers agitating against an egregious handing over of agricultural trade to a crony capitalist, arresting individuals who had nothing to do with riots incited by the ruling party, and holding them in detention for nearly three years now without even chargesheets being filed, the exposure of the most damning evidence against one of those being discovered as manipulation of data on his computer by the police, effectively murdering an 80 year old man with no connection with this incident, by denying him a water bottle with a sipping straw, disregarding very senior ex-servicemen for calling their bluff on the events on the border with China..... Would these qualify for being called voices of reason or intellect, and would what happened to them qualify for the act of being unmasked?

There is something called area of expertise, and globally it's left to the experts.

Is this true, locally?

There is something called area of expertise, and globally it's left to the experts.

Is this true, locally?

It sometimes makes me wonder, or perhaps realize how every two bit warlord was able to conquer and govern us (Read the current map and I am not talking of just South).

One obvious thing is that every two bit warlord took advantage of the artificial divisions created by the defenders against them.

When we say that it is hoped that future generations should remember this, it sounds ironic. Our heroes of 2002 and 2014 are precisely future generations to those earlier divisive elements. When is this consciousness of the damage done in the past supposed to kick in?

Read the current map and I am not talking of just South

Could you explain further?

 

[Joe Shearer]

How did Pakistan become economically weak? Cuz afaik Pakistan was pretty economically strong. How did the economy get worse? Mainly because power hungry coward individuals supported by corrupt establishment. Fear is no policy means fear is no policy. It means Pakistan following its own interests alone without giving a shit about anyone else. It means making sound decisions and planning long term. It means fully committing to any action that the country took no matter how many times usa calls. Pakistanis rulers have been making blunders on blunders that’s why Pakistan’s economy isn’t like South Korea 2.0. They surrendered wherever they could, gave into fear on every decision, and ignored the county’s interests.
But even now, economy won’t stay in ruins forever. Pakistan is a nation of 240 million with immense natural resource wealth and huge potential. All it will take is a good Pakistani leader who can lead Pakistan. But Pakistan has adopted a policy of fear and surrender when it comes to india or any of Pakistans enemies. Even if economy was bad the current policy of fear and surrender is not justifiable.

Good luck.

Evidently this is an invocation of Deus ex machina.

Doesn't usually work, but miracles do happen.

When was Pakistan ever strong ? In the 1960s supposedly when Pakistan was better than South Korea you were receiving living on handouts

Even more than that, the true economic situation became evident only after 1971, when one part almost effortlessly scaled up its economic results, while the other sank into an abyss.

 

[brational]

Pehle tum ehl-e-kufr-e-hind se Jung kerogay aur Fatah paogay, phir Shaam mei Maryum(AS) ke Betay ka Saath do gay”.

Maryam ka beta hai? Kitne saal ka hai. Photo hai koi. Qatari lineage hai kya? Shaam mei Maryam aayegi kya? Raat mei rahegi? Hadeeth me yeh sab likha hai?

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

To be honest, why would India growing at GDP 5%+ would want to mess with Pakistan.

The Indian government would be reasonably happy at Pakistan’s state and continuous stunted economic situation. That eventually will compromise its security. In the long term, they’d hope Pakistan doesn’t go down to the dogs and they have to deal with an extremely unstable country. Something Pakistan has to deal with Afghanistan.

The military inc and their crooked politicians have done alot of damage to Pakistan, something Pakistan’s enemies could only dream of. However, I think April ‘22 was a watershed moment when the public had the proverbial veil removed, and now slowly Pakistan will be on the path of true democracy, strong institutions, accountability and eventually economic prosperity.

That is true.
Let me be sincere. India has never posed a greater danger to Pakistan than what the Pakistani military has suggested. They grew to be larger than everybody else in Pakistan as a result.

Yes, there was a possibility of war before the 1990s, but a lot has changed since then.

Actually, I do not think India will ever attack Pakistan because of the GB and Pakistani Kashmir. India has no chance of risking going to war because to those areas.

Therefore, it is in India's best interests to ignore Pakistan and focus on the economy and other areas.

Problem currently just with Pakistani sides. They are unable to comprehend the current border situation because they are powerless to change the circumstances in Kashmir. They have been creating such a stir among their own citizens for decades under the slogan "Kashmir banega Pakistan."

Because of these factors, Pakistan is currently in a dark situation.

1. Pakistan lacks the military prowess necessary to invade India and seize Kashmir.

2. By mere words, India will never cede Kashmir to Pakistan.

3. Pakistan must resolve the Kashmir conflict as promised to the public if it intends to improve relations with India.


Conclusion: Since decades, Pakistan's authorities have prevented them from turning back or moving forward, which has produced the scenario.

Pakistan will ultimately have to accept the fact that nothing can be changed and go forward. Accept the situation as it is and concentrate on working for your own people and economy.

But sadly, All Pakistani leaders will perform drams in the name of Kashmir until then. Your military establishment and leaders are the only ones that benefit... Due to bad policies, the regular people of Pakistan would suffer.

 

[ProudThamizhan]

monkeys on top on both sides

this is nonsense. Indian politicians while corrupt (with rare exceptions such as Modi and handful) are not in anyway impediments to the Indian army. Line of command is clear, responsibilities and accountability well in place and most importantly strengths and weaknesses are well understood.

There is really no call for an equivocation or comparison with the out of control Pakistan

 

[Titanium100]

That is true.
Let me be sincere. India has never posed a greater danger to Pakistan than what the Pakistani military has suggested. They grew to be larger than everybody else in Pakistan as a result.

Yes, there was a possibility of war before the 1990s, but a lot has changed since then.

Actually, I do not think India will ever attack Pakistan because of the GB and Pakistani Kashmir. India has no chance of risking going to war because to those areas.

Therefore, it is in India's best interests to ignore Pakistan and focus on the economy and other areas.

Problem currently just with Pakistani sides. They are unable to comprehend the current border situation because they are powerless to change the circumstances in Kashmir. They have been creating such a stir among their own citizens for decades under the slogan "Kashmir banega Pakistan."

Because of these factors, Pakistan is currently in a dark situation.

1. Pakistan lacks the military prowess necessary to invade India and seize Kashmir.

2. By mere words, India will never cede Kashmir to Pakistan.

3. Pakistan must resolve the Kashmir conflict as promised to the public if it intends to improve relations with India.


Conclusion: Since decades, Pakistan's authorities have prevented them from turning back or moving forward, which has produced the scenario.

Pakistan will ultimately have to accept the fact that nothing can be changed and go forward. Accept the situation as it is and concentrate on working for your own people and economy.

But sadly, All Pakistani leaders will perform drams in the name of Kashmir until then. Your military establishment and leaders are the only ones that benefit... Due to bad policies, the regular people of Pakistan would suffer.

What is this drivel..

Trying to paint India into something it is not. Pakistan doesn't view India as all that and sees it very much take-able. there is nothing that will change Pakistan's calculations.

Pakistan will not engage India for Jammu it is just to small of a territory to start such a large war for at that magnitude but what Pakistan is banking on is that the RSS elements will eventually seize power in India and miscalculate that is when Pakistan can re-claim all of India as direct consequence of that.

Pakistan will have no other choice in an eventful nuclear war but to go for the throat of India and by that I don't mean Kashmir which is by large irrelevant. India itself won't engage Pakistan for GB or Azad Kashmir ever because it is too small of a territory to start a nuclear armegeddon for hence the Kashmirs will remain intact and both countries won't fight each other for that territory ever because it is to irrelevant for both sides considering the scale of war it would bring.

But if an ultra-RSS extremist group seeks power in India both countries could fall upon an enlarger existential conflict and note not for both Kashmir as these are factually irrelevant for both sides when everything is considered but an existential finale conflict can't be ruled out initiated by fanatical elements if they seek power in both places and India is the more likely area where such groups will emerge from an gain power in turning the sub-continent into a nuclear ash wasteland where an existential struggle will take hold that could last for upto 10-15 years until one group enforces it's will on the other and gain absolute victory.

We could witness anywhere near 500m to 1 billion casualities in the sub-continent post that conflict.

All this economy this or economy that will go out of the window both countries will economically collapse within the conflict once population centers are wipped out but the more resilient will barely the other and weather the storm and can coop with the harsh reality a slight better.. We are more resilient then our counterpart and have better terrain against an outfall not that we will be immune to it but better suited