India cannot defeat Pakistan militarily

[nahtanbob]

Anything less then 500k to 1m mobilization will be useless against Pakistan hence my hope is one will take the bait and I predict it will happen someone will take that bait not today obviously but in the far future 25-30 years from now

The international border is 1500 miles length in border. A lot of Pakistani cities are close to the border. good luck with that strategy

 

[Abid123]

Ofcourse money will roll in nothing to worry about.. Besides from start to beginning with the use of nukes it could take 2 years to finalize the campaign it won't be long drawn out.

Multiple stake claimers will step in and that is the case in each war.. 100% China will bankroll in any clash with India as they will want to have them off the chess board and other regional allies will bankroll us. India is cut from Eurasia once the winter nuclear kick in I would be worried for them not for us..

I don't think you wanna defend Pakistan and honestly I would gather have you in the fore-front beause you have no moral hence your early elimination will be appreciated

My guy this is not Call Of Duty... Lmao..

Nukes would destroy both countries completely. Easy to talk about nuclear war while sitting in Malaysia "macho man".

Does your underdeveloped brain actually understand how powerful a single nuke is? Now imagine 300 strategical nukes in 2 densely populated countries with a combined population of 1.6 billion people.

"I don't think you wanna defend Pakistan and honestly I would gather have you in the fore-front beause you have no moral hence your early elimination will be appreciated".

Don't question my patriotism keyboard warrior. You don't even live in Pakistan for all your patriotism.

 

[Sliver]

Anything less then 500k to 1m mobilization will be useless against Pakistan hence my hope is one will take the bait and I predict it will happen someone will take that bait not today obviously but in the far future 25-30 years from now

so why will they mobilize force first? wont they use missiles/ aircraft etc to make small gains?
most pakistan cities are close to the border anyways. they dont need to take entire pakistan in one go.
and even if they did, they only need punjab - rest isnt really much.
if you consider that - then hitting just a few cities should be enough for them?

your entire premise is based on:
Pak plays all cards right, India makes one mistake - lets take it that Pak will blanket Ind here.

lets assume both play all cards right (highly unlikely)- then?
lets assume both sides make some mistakes (most likely) - then?
lets assume its pakistan that makes the gaffe and India doesnt- then?

even with such simplistic view, its doesnt look good for Pak

and all the above you assume china/KSA will bank roll pakistan (something they havent done for close to a year now)

 

[Edevelop]

India's military is as vulnerable as Russia. They have the numbers but training is extremely poor. It would be wise if they first focus on institutional building, mental health and give their soldiers food to eat

Indian soldier complains of working on empty stomach in viral video | The Express Tribune

Tej Bahadur Yadav of BSF accuses his senior officers of selling off food meant for troops

tribune.com.pk

Son of dismissed BSF jawan, who complained about bad food, found dead

Tej Bahadur Yadav, the former BSF jawan, had posted four videos on Facebook in January, 2017, complaining about the unpalatable food at his camp along the Indo-Pakistan border in Jammu and Kashmir.

www.indiatoday.in

Over 800 cases of suicide in the Armed Forces: Why our soldiers are so stressed

Long duty hours coupled with a lack of adequate sleep and rest, the attitude of senior leadership and long deployment in conflict areas are to blame for high stress levels in the armed forces

www.firstpost.com

The Silent Crisis of Suicide in the Indian Armed Forces

by Umar Moiz 3 April 2023 The Indian armed forces are facing a disturbing trend of growing numbers of suicide deaths among its personnel. According to a report published in ‘The Times of In…

southasiajournal.net

Indian forces have raped, molested more than 11,000 Kashmiri women in 3 decades: report

SRINAGAR/KARACHI: Indian forces have sexually assaulted and gang-raped more than 11,000 women in illegally occupied Jammu and Kashmir during the past three decades, according to a report from a local news outlet, which added that...

www.geo.tv

1,080 corruption cases reported in armed forces since 2010: Govt data

New Delhi, Mar 14 (PTI) A total of 1,080 cases of alleged corruption involving armed forces personnel was reported since 2010 with the Army topping the list with 1,046 such cases, according to details provided by the Defence ministry in Rajya Sabha on Monday. Responding to a question, Minister...

theprint.in

 

[vikan]

I quite like this Battlion25 guys posts, such high levels of fantasy, also its a rare quality to have such levels of belief. The way he writes it is almost borderline belief and not just prediction (i wouldnt even call those posts analysis). One must applaud his conviction in those posts,

 

[CallSignMaverick]

Our economy has remained the same since Pakistan's inception - nothing new there. You are mixing two things and talking about them simultaneously. Pakistan has enough capability to hit India hard anytime, anywhere, and that has nothing to do with the economy.

Your economy atleast used to grow earlier, today your country is going backwards. Till last to last year we used to hear about companies opening their smartphone plants in pakistan, opening new automobile plants in pakistan and pakistan's exports booming, but all in one year is reversed.

Pakistan's capabilities in military domain are great but that wouldn't change the fact that pakistan can't sustain its oversized military currently without a war, during a conflict it would only aggravate the situation within.

It's simple - Pakistan knows, as you stated, that it can't fight a long-term war with India (which is again obvious). What is Pakistan's strategy then? In case of a limited or high intensity, Pakistan will eventually resort to using WMDs, which triggers India. Your military has failed to counter Pakistan so far precisely because of this reason. Your military establishment knows that Pakistan has an economic disadvantage. Pakistan will definitely use WMDs first when its military starts losing ground, and that will push India to use WMDs too. So here is the core problem....

As I said, WMDs are out of equation, pakistan doesn't have enough WMDs to destroy entire India, we have enough to wipe out pakistan from the face of the earth due to the shear size difference between both countries.

Nobody used Nuclear weapons during Kargil war even when both were nuclear armed, nukes are no joke.

"Kudh tu dubay sanam tumko bhi lay dobeengay" - I hope you get the point.

Well I do get it, magar hume dubone layak utne nukes bhi hone chahiye na.

PS: In 2001, after the Parliament attack, Pakistan and India had a six-month-long standoff on the borders, but India never dared to cross even an inch. This is enough to understand the mindset of your military when it comes to opening a full-fledged war against Pakistan. So, when you say "skirmish" or "LIC", it is because of you not because of Pakistan. The full fledge war with pak does not suites you more than Pakistan. Pak state knows they will eventually lose it in the long run so they have something and you don't have any thing in counter to date.

Because India was economically stressed, even our per capita income was much lower than pakistan and it had a much stronger economy and military. Today its the opposite, we're growing while pak is declining. India's economy is estimated to become 20 to 25 times pak's GDP by 2030. It will be total conventional edge for India.


India's current strategic objective seems to be capturing pak administered jammu kashmir and gilgit baltistan, as long as they're able to do it without an 1971 like surrender ceremony, it will be considered a victory for India, if it is unable to recapture the territory its a lost war for India and victory for pak military.

 

[brational]

I am glad your limited understanding of this domain of the world got shattered.. The ground realities are alot more dangerous and ruthless then the common laymen would assume.. Some of these fools paint war into something like cartoon aired on cartoon-network where all of the factors have not been taken into account. All it takes for India to collapse completely in front of Pakistan is making just one mistake in the tactical theatre and that will be it... That is all it takes..

You will see many fools throwing around fancy terminologies they don't even understand etc etc. There are rules in everything how to play soccer etc etc and everything in life has tactics and approaches hence I am telling the laymen here if Pakistan was to play all it's tactical cards right and on the other hand India makes one big gaff then that is all it takes..

Example lets assume an RSS general gets desparate and falls right into a Pakistani trap. Let say a gentlemen gets pissed and mobilises 1.5 million soldiers nearly 90% of India's armed forces and says we are going for GB and Azad? believing in blitzkrieg hence coming in face first hence from the tactical point that could decide the entire war and it will fall into Pakistan's trap to eliminate a huge amount of indian forces gathered in bundles and almost 90% the entire armed forces.. Because they are gathered in bundles in few segments hence making it easy picking for a nicely timed tactical nukes to get them of the chess board..

It will be completely checkmate

This is what happened to Pritveraj he was performing really well thru out the war and had the right approaches but somewhere in the middle he made one mistake that is all just 1 mistake not 2 but just 1 tactical mistake it cost him the war and altered history

Wah kya baat! Alhamdolelo!
One mistake! One mistake! One mistake! Today's battles are not faught in Panipat. India won't go for GB and Ajk to make mistakes. There will be multiple theatres. Moreover, as I said earlier, there are more lucrative options than using military.

Btw, lets assume 786 mistakes committed by India. What will you do other than Hawabazi? Same hawabazi was going on before the removal of 370 & 35A.
Endia will lose JK if 370 removed! Now Pakistan is on the verge of Losing Azad Kashmir and GB.

In reality, Paklan have committed somany mistakes that India does not need to use military to reclaim Azad Kashmir & GB.

One Mistake! 786 Mistake! Tumse kuch nahi hoga.
Please work on your incompetent nation rather than spending time on Hawabazi.

Good Morning

 

[brational]

India's military is as vulnerable as Russia. They have the numbers but training is extremely poor. It would be wise if they first focus on institutional building, mental health and give their soldiers food to eat

Indian soldier complains of working on empty stomach in viral video | The Express Tribune

Tej Bahadur Yadav of BSF accuses his senior officers of selling off food meant for troops

tribune.com.pk

Son of dismissed BSF jawan, who complained about bad food, found dead

Tej Bahadur Yadav, the former BSF jawan, had posted four videos on Facebook in January, 2017, complaining about the unpalatable food at his camp along the Indo-Pakistan border in Jammu and Kashmir.

www.indiatoday.in

Over 800 cases of suicide in the Armed Forces: Why our soldiers are so stressed

Long duty hours coupled with a lack of adequate sleep and rest, the attitude of senior leadership and long deployment in conflict areas are to blame for high stress levels in the armed forces

www.firstpost.com

The Silent Crisis of Suicide in the Indian Armed Forces

by Umar Moiz 3 April 2023 The Indian armed forces are facing a disturbing trend of growing numbers of suicide deaths among its personnel. According to a report published in ‘The Times of In…

southasiajournal.net

Indian forces have raped, molested more than 11,000 Kashmiri women in 3 decades: report

SRINAGAR/KARACHI: Indian forces have sexually assaulted and gang-raped more than 11,000 women in illegally occupied Jammu and Kashmir during the past three decades, according to a report from a local news outlet, which added that...

www.geo.tv

1,080 corruption cases reported in armed forces since 2010: Govt data

New Delhi, Mar 14 (PTI) A total of 1,080 cases of alleged corruption involving armed forces personnel was reported since 2010 with the Army topping the list with 1,046 such cases, according to details provided by the Defence ministry in Rajya Sabha on Monday. Responding to a question, Minister...

theprint.in

Someone said Happiness is a state of mind. Pakistanis tend to find happiness everywhere. This is a great art indeed.

Happy Military of Pakistan Attacked India in 1965 to take Kashmir and ended up defending La'hore and observe Defense day for this great achievement.

 

[Vikramaditya-I]

India can defeat Pakistan militarily, depending on the scenario. If Pakistan is the invading force, they don't stand a chance. If India is invading, we may not be able to defeat Pakistan militarily and the conflict will go on for years.

From India's perspective, why should we invade Pakistan? As many are drawing parallels with the Russian invasion, Russia has a very good reason to invade, what advantage India will get by invading Pakistan? Access to Central Asia? The state of MH has more people than the entire Central Asia, their oil and gas exports to India will give only a few billion dollars if at all they found a way to move through Afg.

Maybe the resources Pakistan got to offer? I don't think there is anything beyond Himalayan pink salt that's worth a mention, add to that, the troubled regions like Balochistan even with it's mineral resources is not worth the trouble. Then rampant gun culture that plagues the entire Pakistan and Afghanistan issues, drug issues. Any Indian who thinks it's a nice idea to invade Pakistan lest any of our neighbours should be lobotomized.

 

[ziaulislam]

Disagree
sooner or later India would just need to say it doesn't like Pakistan and it will be suffocate it to submission.

This is how bad things are moving since Pakistanis are sleeping and loosing it all fronts

 

[Genghis khan1]

Only Pakistanis can beat Pakistan militarily. Don’t believe me, search “Mujib ul Rahman” and “Imran khan”.

 

[Krptonite]

What does this even mean? When you think of 1 billion of a population of 1.4 billion being wiped out, what makes you think that even 1 man, woman or child will survive out of 0.223 billion?
Do you think a nuclear device is a bullet? It kills people over hundreds of square miles. Nobody has to be gathered, they will die in their homes.


How will anyone on either side survive?


Your arithmetic needs brushing up. If 1 billion die, nobody from a quarter of that number, either trash or elite, will survive. Nobody.


Are you telling us that the survivors from the mountain valleys will then walk through nuclear pollution and survive?

Ask your teachers to explain why this is impossible.

Good to see you back in good health joe, dem meds must have some kick to have you have a go at celebrities here.

One point a lot of people do not take into consideration is the number of people initially killed and the subsequent fatalaties resulting from an atom bomb. In concentrated targets like urban cities the number of casualties is high but in rural not so much.

A nuclear bomb has 10-15 km immediate kill zone and 20-30km casualty range, that can be estimated to casualties of in 100 thousand range immediate and another 100 -200 from the post effects. Not to even mention this horrible calculus is valid for population clusters and is on the lower side for rural setting. We have 70% of india living in rural villages.

If all the bombs in PA arsenal are detonated, ignoring the awfull long term effects of the bomb the number of immediate casualties wont even touch 1 crore much less 1 billion. 150-200 atomic bombs is enough for credible deterrence but laughable if the objective is 1Billion.

Thers just no rationality left joe, the only things enlightening posts such as your do is cause morons to roar even more while those who wud or cud contribute to a debate have either long left or disincentivised to participate. There is no intelligence to be found because quite simply you're not interacting with a pondering soul looking for insights. Its a monkey amusing itself in the stupidest way possible, how would one ever hope to outclass that. The days of pigs and muds are long gone.

As you can see, when you bash your head against a rock, there's a remote possibility the rock will see your point of view. Primates on the other hand are a force of nature unto themselves, nuff said.

 

[Rank]

From Dawn, April 29, 2023
...
Mr Mir claimed that in a meeting with around 20 to 25 journalists at the Foreign Office in 2021, the former army chief said that tanks were unable to move as there was no fuel for the movement and since the army was not capable of fighting with India, therefore, Pakistan should normalise relations with the neighbouring country.
...
In his maiden press conference earlier this week, ISPR Director General Major General Ahmed Sharif Chaudhry also admitted that there was no comparison between Pakistan and India’s defence budgets.

lol that was claimed by the journalist with no authentication.... ended up with "baseless and out of context"

Ex-COAS Bajwa’s statement on combat preparedness 'quoted out of context': ISPR

RAWALPINDI: Former army chief General Qamar Javed Bajwa’s statement on “combat worthiness” was “quoted out of the context”, the Inter-Services Public Relations ...

www.thenews.com.pk

Better luck next time!

Is that something new?
Who was the aggressor in 48?
Who was the aggressor in 65?
We were certainly not the aggressors in 71; we intervened on behalf of a province of the erstwhile Pakistan that had been brutalised.
We were also not the aggressors in 2001, nor even in 1999.

So what is your point?

Pakistan has always been the aggressor.
India has always sought peace and stayed defending her own boundaries.
Nothing has changed as far as mindsets go.
Things have changed as far as economies go. And the Pakistani economy has went, if you will pardon my unorthodox syntax.
Try to face reality, instead of brazening it out.
It was one of your prime ministers, poor martyred man, who said that his country would have the bomb, even if its citizens had to eat grass. What a thing to say! Imagine if such a sad state of affairs came to pass.
Unthinkable.
People scrabbling for a bag of wheat, the export figure down 27% from the previous month, a country afloat only on loans, unable to import vital commodities.
Unimaginable.


We got the point more than 70 years ago; that strategy is nothing new, it is as old as the country holding on to the strategy, and it has worked uniformly successfully right through. There is nothing to show that anything has changed.


What a surprise.
What a shock.
Who'd a thunk it?

With nothing changed in economic terms, with - what was that shrill phrase filled with bravado? - ah yes, here it is



How curious the two statements look when placed next to each other.

The statement shows - Pakistan hit India any time and anywhere, and the other statement simply says "can't find LONG TERM WAR" both statements have nothing to do with each other technically and logically.. oh i forgt i am in engaged with those who believe F16s stories

---------------------------------

"Pakistan has always been the aggressor."

"People scrabbling for a bag of wheat, the export figure down 27% from the previous month, a country afloat only on loans, unable to import vital commodities.
Unimaginable." etc etc etc

particularly in the context of a country that is heavily dependent on loans, can't fight a war, and is always opening a front against 'supa-powa.' There should be a serious consideration as to why a 'super-duper' military can't deter a small nation from aggressive behavior

 

[Rank]

Your economy atleast used to grow earlier, today your country is going backwards. Till last to last year we used to hear about companies opening their smartphone plants in pakistan, opening new automobile plants in pakistan and pakistan's exports booming, but all in one year is reversed.

Pakistan's capabilities in military domain are great but that wouldn't change the fact that pakistan can't sustain its oversized military currently without a war, during a conflict it would only aggravate the situation within.

True that!

As I said, WMDs are out of equation, pakistan doesn't have enough WMDs to destroy entire India, we have enough to wipe out pakistan from the face of the earth due to the shear size difference between both countries.

Nobody used Nuclear weapons during Kargil war even when both were nuclear armed, nukes are no joke.

Well I do get it, magar hume dubone layak utne nukes bhi hone chahiye na.

You don't need 100 WMD weapons to destroy it. Targeting major economic hubs of India would be enough. India, with its large bulky population, massive foreign investments that would be lost in such a scenario, and complex strategic dynamics, cannot sustain itself if its core economic hub is wiped out.

India's current strategic objective seems to be capturing pak administered jammu kashmir and gilgit baltistan, as long as they're able to do it without an 1971 like surrender ceremony, it will be considered a victory for India, if it is unable to recapture the territory its a lost war for India and victory for pak military.

Maybe after 10 years or 15, but I don't see that happening in the upcoming years at least. It's difficult to capture and control AJK due to its challenging terrain and pro-Pakistani population, esp who are natural fighters. Any misadventure by India could result in serious repercussions. China is directly involved in the region, any move by India could trigger China because of it's specific developments for global power projection, making it difficult for India to handle two militaries simultaneously.

Keep that in mind, CPEC is in real CEC, not CPEC!

India is not capable of fighting a war on two fronts, let alone on the same front. If China opens another front, it would deviate the war of AJK to thousands of kilometers across the north of India, and everyone knows India is nowhere capable of fighting a two-front war, in fact, it was stated by your own mil chiefs multiple times.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

You don't need 100 WMD weapons to destroy it. Targeting major economic hubs of India would be enough. India, with its large bulky population, massive foreign investments that would be lost in such a scenario, and complex strategic dynamics, cannot sustain itself if its core economic hub is wiped out.

Difference being, India can target core economic hubs of pakistan with conventional weapons, pakistan will have to escalate to ballistic missiles to target India's economic centres which again, are protected by Ballistic Missile Defence systems. And unless pak deepstate would wish for complete annihilation of their country, they'll stay away from WMDs.

Maybe after 10 years or 15, but I don't see that happening in the upcoming years at least. It's difficult to capture and control AJK due to its challenging terrain and pro-Pakistani population, esp who are natural fighters. Any misadventure by India could result in serious repercussions. China is directly involved in the region, any move by India could trigger China because of it's specific developments for global power projection, making it difficult for India to handle two militaries simultaneously.

It is true, but the thing is that BJP government itself isn't serious about any such things, they as usual are just blabbering during election season and will continue to do so.

India is not capable of fighting a war on two fronts, let alone on the same front. If China opens another front, it would deviate the war of AJK to thousands of kilometers across the north of India, and everyone knows India is nowhere capable of fighting a two-front war, in fact, it was by your own mil chiefs multiple times.

Thats a big 'if', China wouldn't necessarily open up a front against India unless it feels that it is going to pose a strategic disadvantage to them, which it doesn't since china doesn't have investments of any value in GB, had it been serious CPEC would've changed the entire Sino-Pak trade region.