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India asks Pakistan to hand over 20 "fugitives".

The same standards and respect for process should apply towards any suspects in the Mumbai attack that India may believe are in Pakistan.

Pakistan has offered a joint investigation team and hopefully the offer will be seriously considered by India. Issuing a demarche and demanding Pakistan just hand over whoever India puts on its list is pretty insulting.

Treat us as equals, respect due process and the laws of Pakistan, and work with Pakistan to investigate and try any suspects - that is how the relationship will move forward.

Ideally, same standards should apply, no doubt about it.

India still doesn't trust Pakistan in the matters of investigation because it believes Pakistan is providing safe haven to criminals and terrorists who were convicted by Indian courts. India also believes that any evidence provided to Pakistan will be used to cover up the tracks leading to Pakistani elements/ISI. See, as long as this trust deficit is there, it is not possible for a joint investigation. It has already shared data with FBI and Scotland Yard.

Regarding third point, it is for domestic consumption. I believe, Pakistan has done the same in return. India also felt insulted and irked when your PM promised of sending ISI DGI and then back tracking on it and sending some low-level junior officer.
 
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Indian Maritime Forces Rebuff Criticism in Wake of Mumbai Attack

By Steve Herman

New Delhi

02 December 2008

India's maritime forces are defending themselves in wake of criticism they could have prevented the terror attack on Mumbai, which left about 175 people dead. VOA Correspondent Steve Herman in New Delhi reports on the response from the Indian navy and coast guard.

India's maritime forces are finding themselves on the defensive following the Mumbai terror attack.

India's naval chief of staff is acknowledging "public outrage" for perceived security lapses after 10 to 15 terrorists came ashore along the coast of the country's commercial capital.

Admiral points to intelligence failure

Admiral Suresh Mehta acknowledges a "systemic failure" by the forces charged with protecting the coast, but says the navy and coast guard received no specific intelligence they could act upon.

"The information available should be actionable. It should have some specifics to it. Whatever actionable have come our way we have always taken action promptly," he said.

Admiral Mehta, who formerly commanded the India coast guard also says Indian vessels were patrolling the Arabian Sea off the state between Pakistan and Mumbai.

"The coast guard had deployed a large number of units on the Gujarat coast. There were special units which were over there. Naval ships are also operating off the Gujarat coast," he added.

Fishermen expressed concern about militants

India media reports quote fishermen from Gujarat as saying they had repeatedly expressed concern to the government - even writing to the prime minister - about the likelihood of militants from Pakistan capturing their boats to infiltrate India.

Indian investigators say the terrorists apparently hijacked a Gujarati fishing trawler at sea to get to the Mumbai coast.

Maritime security experts contend that India has too few vessels and personnel to patrol the country's 7,500 kilometers of coastline and too many agencies operating on Indian waters, 23 in all, to allow effective coordination.

what a collausal blunder!
 
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Perhaps if the ISI chief would have accepted the investigation and come to India, we would have done all sorts of investigation!!!:cheesy:

Nobody will send their top sleuth into a hostile environment! Its was an idiotic request which got an idiotic response which then was retracted. ;)

While we can send our DG for discussions with friends and partners, it would be outright insane to send him to India where the hounds are ready to jump on anything that comes out of the mouths of the Pakistani officials.

There is a time and place for such interaction, clearly now and in India is not it.
 
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Its easy for you to laugh it off ATS chief Khakre, Salaskar and Kamathe were killed near Came hospital in a Jeep they had gone there to tackle terrorists.

ok read my post again one more time


i am not laughing at his death since he had captured and exposed indian army behind terrorism train attacks they wanted him out hindu terrorist that were doing killings and pretending to be muslims wanted him dead as he exposed them so yes its funny how the so called pakistani trained terrorist killed him for them now thats convenient have the cake and eat it TO.:cheers:
 
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Ideally, same standards should apply, no doubt about it.

India still doesn't trust Pakistan in the matters of investigation because it believes Pakistan is providing safe haven to criminals and terrorists who were convicted by Indian courts. India also believes that any evidence provided to Pakistan will be used to cover up the tracks leading to Pakistani elements/ISI. See, as long as this trust deficit is there, it is not possible for a joint investigation. It has already shared data with FBI and Scotland Yard.
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Its a circular argument. Trust deficit exists on both sides. While Indian government sources have been provided evidence of bad things happening on our side, there has been no action. So this goes two ways which is quite unfortunate.
 
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Ideally, same standards should apply, no doubt about it.

India still doesn't trust Pakistan in the matters of investigation because it believes Pakistan is providing safe haven to criminals and terrorists who were convicted by Indian courts. India also believes that any evidence provided to Pakistan will be used to cover up the tracks leading to Pakistani elements/ISI. See, as long as this trust deficit is there, it is not possible for a joint investigation. It has already shared data with FBI and Scotland Yard.

Regarding third point, it is for domestic consumption. I believe, Pakistan has done the same in return. India also felt insulted and irked when your PM promised of sending ISI DGI and then back tracking on it and sending some low-level junior officer.
The trust deficit exists on both sides, and the best way around it that I have seen is the joint investigation offer. Whether India shares evidence with the FBI and SY is inconsequential. At issue is the fact that these are Pakistani citizens we are talking about, and the GoP has no right to even detain them, let alone extradite them, without evidence and a trial in a court of law. Every accused should be treated as 'innocent till proved guilty'.

Pakistan is a sovereign nation with laws and processes, and India must respect her sovereignty and her laws. There is already a lot of public anger over the alleged illegal transfer of suspects to US custody outside of Pakistan (though many were foreigners), and there should be. Any suspects should be tried in Pakistani courts to establish guilt, and then if need be, extradited on the basis of any extradition treaties Pakistan may have with other nations.
 
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Nobody will send their top sleuth into a hostile environment! Its was an idiotic request which got an idiotic response which then was retracted. ;)

While we can send our DG for discussions with friends and partners, it would be outright insane to send him to India where the hounds are ready to jump on anything that comes out of the mouths of the Pakistani officials.

There is a time and place for such interaction, clearly now and in India is not it.

Request was not idiotic but the response was. ISI chief was not expected to discuss about the findings of particular case. ISI knows the Indian environment too well India is no banana republic.
 
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As it stands , Pakistan is convinced that RAW is funding afghan terrorists to carry out Suicide bombings ...... Right ?

So instead of funding for this pathetic crime against Innocent Civillians , give those terrorists some more money to eliminate the Likes of dawood Ibrahim and Afzal Guru . If they are successful , throw some more cash their way (not as if we are short or anything ).

Once dead , there is no way Pakistan can accuse India of murdering these people as it denies that they are there in the first place.

same way fund the attacks in *** and destroy the terror network.

All this non-sense about handing over terrorists is rubbish , be a Man Mukherjee and don't make comments of False Bravado , instead - learn something from Israel about how to destroy terror beyond enemy lines.
 
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As it stands , Pakistan is convinced that RAW is funding afghan terrorists to carry out Suicide bombings ...... Right ?

So instead of funding for this pathetic crime against Innocent Civillians , give those terrorists some more money to eliminate the Likes of dawood Ibrahim and Afzal Guru . If they are successful , throw some more cash their way (not as if we are short or anything ).

Once dead , there is no way Pakistan can accuse India of murdering these people as it denies that they are there in the first place.

same way fund the attacks in *** and destroy the terror network.

All this non-sense about handing over terrorists is rubbish , be a Man Mukherjee and don't make comments of False Bravado , instead - learn something from Israel about how to destroy terror beyond enemy lines.

Nihat, all these terror infrastructures are make-shift. Even if you destroy, they will make a new one. Whatever has to be done should be done at the state level, keep pressure on state to dismantle such terror infrastructures. How to keep pressure on the state is all together a matter for another discussion.
 
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Whatever has to be done should be done at the state level, keep pressure on state to dismantle such terror infrastructures.
If it were that easy the PA wouldn't still be fighting the TTP in FATA and Swat, or the Baluch militants in Baluchistan.
 
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would indian have liked if we called raw chief in pakistan after marriot bombing???
 
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I'm talking about Pak administered kashmir, which I think is pretty much under the control of GoP unlike FAT and Baluchitan.
That is a bit of a superficial analysis of the situation.

The only reason there is no violence in AK is because no one is fighting the PA. If you recreate the anti-state dynamics there, any military would face issues similar to FATA and Baluchistan. This would be true especially in our case, given the direct connections with Afghanistan and FATA and the drug and weapons smuggling networks that would provide easy access to resources for the militants.

This dynamic (connections with Afghanistan and weapons and drugs) is something IOK has been relatively immune from, given the heavy militarization of the LOC.
 
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would indian have liked if we called raw chief in pakistan after marriot bombing???

If there were clues pointing in that direction.

As you can see, Terrorists with in Pak like TTP, Taliban, Al-Qaeda have the capability to do such big things. So if any big blast happens, first they will look within pakistan not outside pakistan. While in the case of Mumbai attack, even home grown terrorism doesn't have that kind of capability to do that, so India is pointing towards Pakistani elements which have time and again shown such capability.
 
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Tuesday December 2, 8:56 PM
yahoonews.com

Pakistan offers 'joint investigation' into Mumbai attacks:tup:


MUMBAI (AFP) - Pakistan offered on Tuesday to work hand-in-hand with India to track down those responsible for the Mumbai attacks but declined to respond immediately to a demand that it hand over 20 terrorist suspects.

Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi suggested setting up a "joint investigation mechanism" into the assaults, which left 188 dead.

As tensions mounted between the nuclear-armed neighbours over the siege of India's financial capital, India demanded that Pakistan arrest and extradite the list of terror suspects.

But Qureshi did not respond to the handover request.

Among the suspects was Hafiz Saeed, the founder of the Lashkar-e-Taiba militant group that has been accused of carrying out last week's dramatic assault on Mumbai.

Pakistan's prime minister said his government wanted proof of India's allegation that all the attackers were Pakistanis.




CNN and other US networks reported that the United States had warned India in October hotels and business centres in Mumbai would be targeted by attackers coming from the sea.

One US intelligence official had named the Taj Mahal hotel, one of 10 sites hit in the 60-hour siege by gunmen, as a specific target, ABC television said.

It said Indian intelligence officials intercepted a phone call on November 18 to an address in Pakistan used by the head of Lashkar-e-Taiba, revealing a possible attack from the sea.

About 10 gunmen landed in rubber dinghies in Mumbai on Wednesday and wreaked havoc with automatic weapons and hand grenades, in an assault that killed 188 and injured more than 300. The dead included 22 foreign nationals.

India's security and intelligence agencies have come under intense criticism over their handling of the incident.

"Such comprehensive failure was held up to the world's view during 60 hours of unprecedented trauma, featuring 10 heavily armed terrorists who sailed into Mumbai from Pakistan and penetrated Indian defences as if it was child's play," The Hindu newspaper said on Tuesday.

Pakistan outlawed the Lashkar-e-Taiba, which has fought Indian rule in divided Kashmir, after it was blamed for the 2001 attack on the Indian parliament -- though Indian officials allege that Pakistan has not enforced the ban.

India and Pakistan have fought three wars since independence and were on the brink of a fourth after the 2001 attack.

But Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee stressed that armed conflict was not on the agenda, telling reporters "nobody is talking about military action".

The names on India's list come from suspects originally put together by India after the assault on parliament.

As well as Hafiz Saeed, they include Maulana Masood Azhar, chief of the Jaish-e-Mohammed rebel group, and Dawood Ibrahim, wanted in India on charges of masterminding serial bombings in Mumbai in 1993 that killed around 300 people.

Mukherjee formally demanded "the arrest and hand-over of those persons who are settled in Pakistan and are fugitives of Indian law".

Pakistan has said in the past that it will not hand over any of its citizens to India and denies Dawood Ibrahim, an Indian national, is on its soil.

"They have given us (the names of) some of the organisations ... but that is not evidence," Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani told CNN.

He also played down reports that Pakistan could move troops away from the fight against Al-Qaeda and Taliban militants in the country's northern tribal areas to reinforce security on its eastern border with India.

"Pakistan will act very responsibly," the prime minister said. "We have talked to all our friends (to see) that they will use their good offices to defuse the situation."

Questions about whether India ignored US intelligence warnings and if Pakistan would divert troops from the Afghan border will likely come up in discussions with US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who arrives Wednesday.

She is due to meet Indian officials though there has been no announcement if she will also visit Pakistan, a close ally in the US-led "war on terror" since the September 11 attacks on the United States in 2001.

"In some ways that whole region is like a forest that hasn't had rain in many months and one spark could cause a big, roaring fire. That's what we're trying to avoid," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said on Monday.

In Mumbai, a meeting of Muslim clerics Tuesday decided that the bodies of the dead militant gunmen should be denied burial on Indian soil.

"These people should be buried where they came from. There is no space for them on our holy land," said Syed Moinuddin Ashraf, president of the city's Jamia Qadriya Ashrafiya madrassa or Muslim religious school.
 
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