India and Russia going to sign biggest-ever defence deal worth $ 35 billion

[jaiind]

Stealth:

This pic is just prototype one...not complete stealth features were included.I Think the Jf 17 would be costliest stealth fighter .To win against some AF the stealth is not required.

 

[KRAIT]

This pic is just prototype one...not complete stealth features were included.I Think the Jf 17 would be costliest stealth fighter .To win against some AF the stealth is not required.

Leave him and don't bring JF-17. I want to see the final prototype this year.....

 

[zeus]

First Indo-Russian FGFA aka PAK-fa to be unveiled in India by 2014

 

[Hello_10]

It is not as much as the thinking as much as the cost overruns that IAF will have to bear to avoid compromise on LO for the T-50. Secondly, i am unsure if we can even come close to the RCS demonstrated by the current prototypes in case we go in for the twin-seater (even 15% looks like an optimistic value given our deadline-driven-thinking). Just goes to show how *****-footed we have become to avoid such cost overruns instead of working to solve such problems in the longer run. Wish we had an Indian Tikhomorov or Phazotron

the delay to sign the final contract till late 2012/2013 was mainly to check the full capabilities of this aircraft and as its all going pretty good, thats the reason why they are now going to give a final touch to this deal, make sense?

and if any doubt then why don't you write to HAL before their senior experts may do a $35bil mistake,

 

[illusion8]

the delay to sign the final contract till late 2012/2013 was mainly to check the full capabilities of this aircraft and as its all going pretty good, thats the reason why they are now going to give a final touch to this deal, make sense?

and if any doubt then why don't you write to HAL before their senior experts may do a $35bil mistake,

Does make sense after 180 sorties and 3 prototypes.

 

[Hello_10]

From 2022 onward??? I thought from 2020 atleast!

also, its in the line of expected time.... IAF is negotiating for an advanced version of 'Rafale F3' (Rafale F4+) which would be delivered from 2015 onward, so we find production line of Rafale would start in India at the time when they will close the production line of 'Super Sukhoi' SU30mki sometimes in 2016/18, and then Rafale will be in production in India itself until production line of PAK FA/FGFA will start......

people who bargain, have to answer of every single dollar of government's money and their experience with FGFA/PAK FA, LCA/Tejas with full tech transfer of Rafale would definitely help them in their own 5th gen program, AMCA

India's Indigenous 5th-Gen Combat Plane to Boast Of Condition Monitoring Systems

June 16, 2012

India is developing a new fifth general fighter aircraft and it will have the latest integrated condition monitoring systems covering important systems such as avionics, structural health, air conditioning, and pressure regulation.

This was revealed by Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) chief Dr VK Saraswat at a two-day national conference on 'Condition Monitoring of Engineering Systems and Structures' organised jointly by the Research and Development Establishment (Engineers) of the DRDO and Condition Monitoring Society of India at Pune.

Inaugurating the conference, Saraswat said technologies drive doctrines and with advancing technologies, maintenance strategies have changed over the years from ‘break-down’ to ‘preventive’ to ‘predictive’ to ‘proactive’ and systems have evolved to ‘self-diagnosis’ and ‘self-healing’, by integrating nano, micro and bio-technologies.

He said that the development of sensors, signal processing techniques, decision support systems and software are the main challenges in condition-monitoring and structural-health-monitoring.

Saraswat also released the conference souvenir and proceedings.

India is developing its own fifth generation combat jet in the form of the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) that was formerly conceived as the Medium Combat Aircraft (MCA). The AMCA will be a single-seater, twin-engine stealth multirole fighter.

The AMCA is likely to complement the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) and the Indo-Russian joint venture fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA), also known as the PAK FA, the Sukhoi Su-30MKI and the Dassault Rafale, which will be the chosen plane under the MMRCA or the medium multi-role combat aircraft tender for 126 planes for the Indian Air Force (IAF).

AMCA will be powered by the GTX Kaveri engine that will provide it thrust vectoring and possible supercruise capabilities. With the DRDO tying up with French Snecma for the engine's development, Kaveri is expected to provide 90 KiloNewton to 95 kiloNewton of power.

The IAF had issued the Air Staff requirements (ASR) for the AMCA in April 2010, placing the plane in the 25-ton category.

Apart from an air force version of the AMCA, it is also envisaged to develop a carrier-borne version for use on Indian Navy's indigenous aircraft carriers of the future.

The design and development of AMCA is now in progress and it is likely to go for first flight in about three years or so, sometime in 2015, and later be available for induction into the air force in another three years from then, by the end of 2018.

The AMCA will be designed with a very small radar cross-section and is expected to feature serpentine shaped air-intakes, internal weapons and the use of composites and other materials. The AMCA project is estimated to cost about $2 billion for the DRDO.

India's Indigenous 5th-Gen Combat Plane to Boast Of Condition Monitoring Systems

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

if we could have spectra ( or similar tech )in AMCA And FGFA then it will be a great because more than rafale which is non stealth and can be detected at longer rangers , a stealth fighter can use passive sensors more effectively .

one more thing is why are we opting for smaller version compared to PAKFA ? won't that make it similar weight class as AMCA?

 

[Gessler]

 

[illusion8]

Will the SU 50 Firefox evolve into any one of these? the designs are smoking hot!! these are from Sukhoi's design desk.

 

[longewala]

I think we are all being a bit hasty here. It takes time to develop a world-class stealth fighter.

F35: development of 1st prototype (1996-06) 10 years, prototype to induction 10 years (2006-16)
F-22: RFP to prototype 11 years (1986-97),induction 8 years (1997-05)
Rafale: time to develop 1st prototype 7 years (1979-86), prototype to induction over 10 years (wikipedia mentiones 2000)
Eurofighter: development of 1st prototype (1979-94) 15 years, prototype to induction 9 years (1994-2003)
J-10: 1st prototype 9-10 years (1988-97), induction 7 years (2004)

So rule of thumb, 10 years development to build 1st prototype, 10 years to induction after that

based on that
PAK-FA: prototype 8 years (2002-10) and we should expect induction by 2020-22.
J-20: prototype 12 years (late 90s - 2011), and induction maybe 1-2 years after PAK-FA - which is assuming a lot as they are well behind Russian expertise in design and engine development.

So, it would be fair to assume that we will not see large numbers of stealth jets on either side (India / China) until 2023 or 2024.
Which is clearly the reason why IAF is going for Rafale, the Su-30MKI and Rafale combo (close to 400 jets) will rule the sky for the next decade.

Of course, PAK-FA should be worth waiting for - the Russians design the best (and best-looking) jets,their engines and radar are top-notch, their only weakness is in electronics and user-interface and that's where India should be able to help, with their experience with integrating israeli and French avionics. I am sure PAK-FA should be the next-gen Su-30, unchallenged in the sky.

 

[Hello_10]

also, right now US has only transport aircrafts, P8I, GE engine and hardly Apache also to offer but they charge India very high price than what they ask from Australia, Canada and its other customers like Pakistan, and in fact very less of its price it required for making these arms in US. I think, India would keep kicking US for the defence arms India buy from US, to always make US understand that its India who feeds them

like, India is paying $410mil each for C-17, while Australia is paying around $350mil each for C-17. while for US, its just around $250mil each for C-17 to make it in US for themselves.
(prices of Australian, Canadian and US's is mentioned in the last paragraph of this news as below.

June 7/11: India’s Cabinet Committee on Security has reportedly approved a $4.1 billion buy of 10 C-17As.

Australia spent about $1.4 billion, and Canada about $1.6 billion, to buy and induct 4 C-17As into their respective air forces; the USA, who does not have the extra expenses that accompany any new fleet aircraft type, is set to spend $2.5 billion for 10 C-17s in the Senate’s FY 2010 defense budget.

C-17s for India

similarly I have read on many places that US charge India with much higher prices for the same aircrafts/ missiles etc than what they got from their other customers. for example of Harpoon missile price for India and much less was charged from pakistan

Harpoons: India to pay US almost three times more than Pak

Harpoons: India to pay US almost three times more than Pak : India, News - India Today

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Will the SU 50 Firefox evolve into any one of these? the designs are smoking hot!! these are from Sukhoi's design desk.

big changes are very unlikely

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Good going India Russia !!

 

[illusion8]

big changes are very unlikely

Just looks like a structural change, and the current models are prototypes no clear idea how the final product turns out to be...could possibly be one of these three designs that was designed by a Sukhoi designer specifically for the Firefox.

 

[Tshering22]

From 2022 onward??? I thought from 2020 atleast!

Be grateful we are getting it that early. If you were thinking it was anything earlier than that, then you certainly don't live in India, bhai.