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India and China: softly, softly

Windjammer

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India and China: softly, softly - Times Of India

Indian and Chinese troops are said to be in a standoff in Ladakh, in the Daulat Beg Oldi area. A Chinese military unit has apparently set up a camp fairly deep into what New Delhi considers is its side of the Line of Actual Control (LAC), and it has not withdrawn even after meetings between the local commanders and after the newly-formed border mechanism has been activated. The word standoff probably exaggerates the state of affairs. But the Indian media has portrayed it in these terms, and it is beginning to affect the nature of the debate within the country.

Predictably, domestic politics in India is starting to take its toll on government thinking. The role of domestic politics in Indian foreign policy could be a positive one. Instead, it is increasingly negative, tying the hands of the central government which is responsible for the conduct of external relations and clouding judgment and rational decision-making. We have seen in the past year that state governments and coalition politics are affecting New Delhi's stances. First Mamata foiled the Manmohan Singh government's efforts to reach an agreement with Bangladesh on the Teesta river. Then the Kerala government complicated the Ministry of External Affairs' handling of the Italian marines' case. Most recently, we have seen the DMK lecturing the Indian government on its policy on Sri Lanka.

There are of course times when domestic politics is positive. The Punjab government in India has worked assiduously to develop relations with its counterpart in Pakistan. The West Bengal government under the CPM was generally supportive of a rational, moderate policy towards Bangladesh. Indian public opinion over the past five years, in spite of the Mumbai outrage of 2008, has seen the good sense of a constructive approach to relations with Pakistan. Manmohan Singh was helped by coalition politics when he took the India-US nuclear deal to Parliament.

There is a danger that domestic politics will unhinge a cautious, prudent policy toward China in the present standoff. The opposition parties and the government of Kashmir under Omar Abdullah are calling for sterner Indian action. The BJP which had a fairly rational policy towards China when it was in power is now pounding its chest. The fact of the matter is that we just do not know enough about what happened in Daulat Beg Oldi.

Since we do not know, we must, as the government has argued, be patient. The meeting between commanders and the border mechanism has not been terribly successful in resolving differences. But there are other modes of communication and conflict mitigation. These must be given time. In any case, those who are jumping up and down calling for tougher action - by which they mean military action - should explain what action New Delhi can take when its overall weakness in relation to China is so massive.

The fact is that China's economy is four times India's size. This is a measure of the difference between the two countries. It suggests that China has a much greater capacity to prosecute any conflict anywhere with India. Militarily, it has more nuclear weapons by a factor of three, at the very least. In terms of conventional weapons, there is glaring mismatch as well. China has about two times as many active military personnel as India. Its army has the advantage of the heights and infrastructure along our northern border, has better equipment, makes so much more of its arms, and can therefore fight a longer and wider war.

So let us be careful about what we would wish for. A fight with China would be disastrous - in every way. India would stand exposed militarily and diplomatically. In 1962, it was Parliament and public opinion that pushed Jawaharlal Nehru into taking positions that were unwise. Let's not repeat 1962. Our political parties and Chief Ministers should stifle themselves for a while, as the government tries to figure out whether the incursion is part of a larger strategy or if regional and local PLA commanders got too ambitious and need some time to retrench.

We are reeling economically and politically from an assortment of crises. This is no time for our nostrils to flare.


So the reality slowly begins to sink in. !!
 
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MMS is too soft on China. India needs a leader who will confront China and establish India as the strongest in its periphery. I hope MMS will be gone soon and Modi will show India her destiny!
 
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The author does not seem to realize that Nehru screwed up with the military ill-equiping them with downsized down budgets and coupled with not using the airforce led to the 1962 defeat. Also the 1967 and 1987 fitting replies given by a well-equiped army is lost on the author.

Also the author has lost the basic fact that both India and China will lose out in a military confrontation and economic might has nothing to do here - during the cold war, Warsaw Pact countries had multiple times lower GDP when compared to NATO. Also by his logic, North Korea would be overwhelmed by South Korea and India can overwhelm Pakistan.

And in case of foreign policy of India, local politics will have a say especially with the screw ups done by central government in various cases. It is the locals who pick up the fallout of disastrous foreign policy - case to point - Katchatheevu granting by GOI and the fallout is TN is what is facing the TN fishermen harassement and killings issue.


And the author is talking about soft approach - after 2 flag meets when Chinese were a no-show with the tent well within both the disputed lines under question(Mcdonald line and Johnson line) - India ultimately have to use the force if diplomacy fails - India does not have any other option here and if the author mistakes it for jingoism then the author is a fool for not realising that it will provide an opportunity to shift the goal post in the long term negotiations wrt Akshai Chin.
 
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The author does not seem to realize that Nehru screwed up with the military ill-equiping them with downsized down budgets and coupled with not using the airforce led to the 1962 defeat. Also the 1967 and 1987 fitting replies given by a well-equiped army is lost on the author.

Also the author has lost the basic fact that both India and China will lose out in a military confrontation and economic might has nothing to do here - during the cold war, Warsaw Pact countries had multiple times lower GDP when compared to NATO. Also by his logic, North Korea would be overwhelmed by South Korea and India can overwhelm Pakistan.

And in case of foreign policy of India, local politics will have a say especially with the screw ups done by central government in various cases. It is the locals who pick up the fallout of disastrous foreign policy - case to point - Katchatheevu granting by GOI and the fallout is TN is what is facing the TN fishermen harassement and killings issue.


And the author is talking about soft approach - after 2 flag meets when Chinese were a no-show with the tent well within both the disputed lines under question(Mcdonald line and Johnson line) - India ultimately have to use the force if diplomacy fails - India does not have any other option here.

Dude stop pointing fingers at History, In the current scenario it is better to Face Chinese.


They came with flawed Border Agreement which India declined and now they are trying to force India. This bullying won't go anywhere and will Haunt Chinese in future.

India gave a string response by establishing more number of tents and efforts are already under way to beef up the border.
 
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Dude stop pointing fingers at History, In the current scenario it is better to Face Chinese.


They came with flawed Border Agreement which India declined and now they are trying to force India. This bullying won't go anywhere and will Haunt Chinese in future.

India gave a string response by establishing more number of tents and efforts are already under way to beef up the border.


It is not a fitting reply from India laying out tents in our side of the border. It is a like a neighborhood farmer trying to have his cow graze in my land and I am showing him I can have my cows graze in my land as well

The Chinese tent is sitting 16 km south of the Karakoram range - The area of dispute is north of Karakoram range - Understand the basic fact.

There is only one option - the tent setup by the Chinese need to be removed through diplomacy or force - no choice here.
 
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It is not a fitting reply from India laying out tents in our side of the border - taking into consideration either one of the lines i.e China agreed Mcdonald line or Johnson line. The Chinese tent is sitting 16 km south of the Karakoram range - The area of dispute is north of Karakoram range - Understand the basic fact.

There is only one option - the tent setup by the Chinese need to be removed through diplomacy or force - no choice here.

Yes those thing will be done , India Govt. in the center is knows well how to deal with the Chinese. From the head line I am getting a feeling GOI is intentionally cooling the friction that do not mean we are weak.

Let the world know what Chinese are upto and their greediness.

Let the diplomacy prevail other wise India will repeat Chola Incident, I am sure.
 
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@Sashan we dint have an airforce in 1962. well we did, but no proper combat jets. When china invaded, nehru was begging US for planes and any kind of military hardware to fight with. I read an article in barat rakshak about indian navy carrier lending its planes to the air force
 
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I think India should just shoot at the Chinese soldiers and see what China would do. Win or loose, at least India do something to rectify the situation.
 
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Dude stop pointing fingers at History, In the current scenario it is better to Face Chinese.


They came with flawed Border Agreement which India declined and now they are trying to force India. This bullying won't go anywhere and will Haunt Chinese in future.

India gave a string response by establishing more number of tents and efforts are already under way to beef up the border.

Is this a fitting response? :blink:
 
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@Sashan we dint have an airforce in 1962. well we did, but no proper combat jets. When china invaded, nehru was begging US for planes and any kind of military hardware to fight with. I read an article in barat rakshak about indian navy carrier lending its planes to the air force

We retained some ww2 left overs like canberras and gnats - the same gnats which took on some advanced PAF jets in 1971 - but dear Nehru was afraid of using it as he overetimated he capabilities of Chinese army and felt that the retaliation will be strong.
 
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Yes those thing will be done , India Govt. in the center is knows well how to deal with the Chinese. From the head line I am getting a feeling GOI is intentionally cooling the friction that do not mean we are weak.
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so you are not week?
back in 1962 both your nations had dimilar GDP. now the dragon has 5 times of your GDP with heavy weight in manufacture.
 
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It seems the other Asian nations didn't learn the Chinese way of waiting until time to strike.

You think it is only just now China is pissed at US? Just now China wants to protect her south China sea interests? Just now it wants to confront Japan about their attitude towards the war and the actions afterwards?

China knows its strength and it's limits. It knows against US before even in Chinese soil will be difficult and would lead to defeat. Against South China sea there is no good navy and wouldn't pose a serious challenge, against Japan, even ignoring the Americans, the fight would at least be difficult.

India right now is not ready to face China, even assuming the same level of equipment India cannot move too much troops to the disputed area, while China can and in a hurry.

Beijing is very far away but Delhi is close to the border. Not saying it would come to that, but the fact that China could reach it even if a thousand miles away is still troubling and would lead to panic.

China started this which means if war is what they were looking for, the proper preparations have taken place and a plan has been drafted. India I'm not sure the same is true.

Looking at various factors, India shouldn't back down, but also should avoid conflict, at the very least, start preparation and drag this on until that is done. Make sure no surprises from Pakistan.
 
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