India already started negotiations fpr second order of Rafale

[TheBlackCoat]

What has stopped Trump from protectionism ?

India makes 56% of IT earnings from America. Lot of them are not going to end based on political edict.
Call center business is a declining one.

India purchases hundreds of Boeing jetliners. It does not take much to shift orders to Airbus.

You are mistaking the US' magnanimity as its weakness.

 

[TheBlackCoat]

http://www.nytimes.com/1975/07/27/a...pe-the-f16-and-how-it-won-europes-orders.html

The deal is still in effect, so 15% of any Indian F-16s will be delivered by European Countries.

There were similar deals made with other countries.
Very similar to the F-35 contracts. All countries that joined the F-35 program early on have right to produce parts for the F-35.

The idea that F-16 can be produced using a single supply chain is ludicrous,
but Indians keep repeating that MANTRA.

What US has given EU is a privilege not a right. Now how many of the 19 F-16s to Bahrain are being manufactured in Netherlands?

An F-16 pilot from the 169th Fighter Wing, South Carolina Air National Guard, flies a training mission over the North Carolina coast. U.S. Air Force photo by SMSgt Thomas Meneguin.
White House approves Greenville production of 19 F-16 fighter jets
The White House has approved the sale of 19 F-16s to Bahrain.

SEPTEMBER 12, 2017

by Rudolph Bell


While Congress has the power to block a proposed arms sale to a foreign government, it has not successfully done so since the 1980s, according to David McKeeby, a spokesman with the Bureau of Political-Military Affairs, an arm of the State Department that is involved in the process.

If there’s no objection from Congress, U.S. military officials will hammer out a contract with Bahrain and work with Lockheed to complete it, McKeeby said.

Lockheed earlier this year disclosed plans to move F-16 production from Fort Worth, Texas, to the 16-hangar complex in southern Greenville County where the defense contractor has refurbished military aircraft since 1984.

It’s not clear, however, who’s going to buy Greenville-made F-16s after the 19 are delivered to Bahrain.

Lockheed has said it’s hoping to sell the latest-generation F-16 to India in a deal that could reportedly involve up to 200 aircraft.

But it has also said that any F-16s sold to India would be made in India through a partnership with Tata Group, a big Indian industrial conglomerate.

F-16 production would transfer from Greenville to India in the mid 2020s if Lockheed wins the Indian work, company executives have said.

Bethesda, Md.-based Lockheed says it expects other future customers for the F-16.

Lockheed may end up making a different supersonic military aircraft at its Greenville complex.

The company has said it would perform final assembly of the South Korea-made T50A in Greenville if it wins a contract to supply 350 jets to the U.S. Air Force for training fighter pilots.

Lockheed Martin is competing with a Boeing/Saab alliance for that multibillion-dollar contract, as well as an Italian company called Leonardo.

 

[Zen0]

Check @wiseone2 's
And your economy tanked since the Rafale deal was signed. Do you even have money to move forward with the original deal?

India isn't a fragile economy like Pakistan to collapse by spending few millions on fighters .

 

[wiseone2]

You are mistaking the US' magnanimity as its weakness.

Let us put it this way - USA has been more magnanimous towards other countries than India

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

What US has given EU is a privilege not a right. Now how many of the 19 F-16s to Bahrain are being manufactured in Netherlands?

If You go and look at the suppliers list of the F-16, you willl find that the Netherlands produces
the undercarriage for the F-16s including the F-16s for Bahrain.
There are plenty of other parts which LM are buying from other parts of the world
to meet their contractual obligations.
These remain in place for any F-16s produced in India.

 

[NirmalKrish]

Curious , how is Pakistan planning to counter Rafael ?

As far as I know the most advanced jet at their disposal are those relic f16s & j17 with outdated mig engines.

Is this aimed towards China? Cos Rafael looks like overkill .

Pakistan was not even in the equation to begin with, its nothing else but CHINA.

 

[wiseone2]

If You go and look at the suppliers list of the F-16, you willl find that the Netherlands produces
the undercarriage for the F-16s including the F-16s for Bahrain.
There are plenty of other parts which LM are buying from other parts of the world
to meet their contractual obligations.
These remain in place for any F-16s produced in India.

why should they be in place ?
Lockheed owns F-16s. They can create a new variant not subject to these contractual obligations.

Baring significant mfg in India or technology transfer the f-16 deal is a non-starter

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

why should they be in place ?
Lockheed owns F-16s. They can create a new variant not subject to these contractual obligations.

Baring significant mfg in India or technology transfer the f-16 deal is a non-starter

Yes, they have created the F-35, which is not subject to those contractual obligations.
My guess is that LM is only producing 40 % of the value of the F-16, and that is the
percentage that can be produced in India.
Engine, Radar, EW has to be bought from the US, and then all components
delivered by about a dozen countries which have the right to produce for the F-16.

 

[wiseone2]

Yes, they have created the F-35, which is not subject to those contractual obligations.
My guess is that LM is only producing 40 % of the value of the F-16, and that is the
percentage that can be produced in India.
Engine, Radar, EW has to be bought from the US, and then all components
delivered by about a dozen countries which have the right to produce for the F-16.

Call the F-16 some other aircraft F-I1. Dump the contractual obligations

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Call the F-16 some other aircraft F-I1. Dump the contractual obligations

And respond to the Lawsuit.
LM is not a Mickey Mouse Outfit, so it will not happen.

Fact is that if India selects F-16, India will have to purchase 60% of the F-16 components
from a dozen countries, and produce about 40 % in India.
Out of those 60 % a large part is of course US non-LM products.
I do not see companies like Raytheon and Honeywell selling of their crown jewels to please LM.

 

[wiseone2]

And respond to the Lawsuit.
LM is not a Mickey Mouse Outfit, so it will not happen.

Fact is that if India selects F-16, India will have to purchase 60% of the F-16 components
from a dozen countries, and produce about 40 % in India.
Out of those 60 % a large part is of course US non-LM products.
I do not see companies like Raytheon and Honeywell selling of their crown jewels to please LM.

the contracts apply to the F-16 not to Indian IF-1 variant

 

[TheBlackCoat]

If You go and look at the suppliers list of the F-16, you willl find that the Netherlands produces
the undercarriage for the F-16s including the F-16s for Bahrain.
There are plenty of other parts which LM are buying from other parts of the world
to meet their contractual obligations.
These remain in place for any F-16s produced in India.

Again you are mistaking the privilege extended by the US as a right.

I would prefer US provide zero ToT to any country. This is my country's hard earned IP. But if giving away some superfluous non-critical tech to a country would win us huge business deal, I would completely support it.

Yes, they have created the F-35, which is not subject to those contractual obligations.
My guess is that LM is only producing 40 % of the value of the F-16, and that is the
percentage that can be produced in India.
Engine, Radar, EW has to be bought from the US, and then all components
delivered by about a dozen countries which have the right to produce for the F-16.

Do you think LM would directly deal with the government of India without the approval & engagement of US Administration? The deal would be done with complete approval and support of US administration. Hypothetically speaking, If we choose to, we can transfer all technologies of F-16 irrespective of the which US firm manufactures it while in case of Gripens there is only so much that Government of Sweden and SAAB could transfer even if you desire so. The difference could not be more stark.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Again you are mistaking the privilege extended by the US as a right.

I would prefer US provide zero ToT to any country. This is my country's hard earned IP. But if giving away some superfluous non-critical tech to a country would win us huge business deal, I would completely support it.



Do you think LM would directly deal with the government of India without the approval & engagement of US Administration? The deal would be done with complete approval and support of US administration. Hypothetically speaking, If we choose to, we can transfer all technologies of F-16 irrespective of the which US firm manufactures it while in case of Gripens there is only so much that Government of Sweden and SAAB could transfer even if you desire so. The difference could not be more stark.

It is You, that are mistaken.
General Dynamics offered the four countries a share in all future production of the F-16
as part of the sales pitch for the F-16.
This is exactly the approach used for the F-35.
If somehow India would get the rights to "produce" the F-35, they would not be able
to short circuit the F-35 eco-system, and produce everything themselves.

What You can do, and what You will do might be very different.

I doubt that US government can transfer the Intellectual Property of a company
without the consent of that company.
The US government can of course make it attractive through various means,
but what will the US government do if Grumman says no anyway?
If the government try something funny, there will be a multi billion dollar lawsuit.

 

[Vanamali]

Curious , how is Pakistan planning to counter Rafael ?

As far as I know the most advanced jet at their disposal are those relic f16s & j17 with outdated mig engines.

Is this aimed towards China? Cos Rafael looks like overkill .

For all problems, one and only solutions..... NASAR

Pakistan is very clever, with one development they bought peace of mind. Now they are not hurry to spend on defence like India. Now they will sit back and will develop J17 so that they will be come independent and exporter of Fighter plans.

This is the response you will get in PDF...

So chill dear...
Sarve Jana sukino bhavanthu

 

[MagicMarker]

As my President Trump said "India makes billions of dollars in trade with the United States, and we want them to help us more"

Your call center revenue better go for procuring F-16s else we may be forced to pull the plug and your economy goes down the drain.

Beware what you wish for.

LOL. I guarantee you that India will not be going for F-16. Do your best


So my question is , when are you going to "pull the plug" ?