India already started negotiations fpr second order of Rafale

[TheBlackCoat]

Right now it is Rafale and Sukhois

I don't think forty year old F-16s is anything to be grateful about especially the price points

Your Airforce does not want more Sukhois.

You government cannot afford more Rafales.

There are no other options but the US fighters.

The US has already approved selling GE-F414 to India for use in Gripen.
GE has already approved building GE-F414 in India as well (with about 60% Indian content)

With Gripen, India could only buy the engine.
With F-16s, India could assemble the engine.
India is looking for ToT and with Gripen deal ToT from US companies would be zero.

 

[wiseone2]

Your Airforce does not want more Sukhois.
You government cannot afford more Rafales.
There are no other options but the US fighters.

If a F-16 is $80 million with no ToT the Indian government may choose a Rafale at $200 million price tag

Your Airforce does not want more Sukhois.
With Gripen, India could only buy the engine.
With F-16s, India could assemble the engine.
India is looking for ToT and with Gripen deal ToT from US companies would be zero.

The ToT on other parts of the aircraft might tilt the deal in favor of Gripen

 

[ziaulislam]

Affordability comes in context of priority....does india thinks aby her poor.population or not

 

[Fireurimagination]

It going to be 36+36 Rafales, the remaining 200 odd planes would be either F16 or Gripen, depending upon who will provide TOT

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Your Airforce does not want more Sukhois.

You government cannot afford more Rafales.

There are no other options but the US fighters.



With Gripen, India could only buy the engine.
With F-16s, India could assemble the engine.
India is looking for ToT and with Gripen deal ToT from US companies would be zero.

Nope, India are getting F414 production for Tejas Mk2 and AMCA.
India is getting all the Engine ToT it is going to get from the US for this project.
Nothing that stops India from producing F414 for Gripen as well.
Having the same engine for several planes is going to make logistics easier

There has been no approval for assembling the engine for F-16 in India.
Lockheed Martin has no say in the engine discussion, so if India chooses
the F-16, it might have to buy 100 % of the engine from the US.

Not to mention all the parts India will have to buy from the Netherlands,
Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Turkey, U.K., Germany, South Korea etc.
due to Lockheed Martin signing away such rights.

 

[TheBlackCoat]

If a F-16 is $80 million with no ToT the Indian government may choose a Rafale at $200 million price tag

India had tough time closing the earlier Rafale deal which had a unit price of ~$100 million and you expect your government to buy the next lot at $200 million a piece. Incredible! . With regards to ToT, No vendor is going to part away their hard earned critical IP. Not Russia, Not France, Not UK, Not Sweden and Not US. Naivety has no boundaries.

The ToT on other parts of the aircraft might tilt the deal in favor of Gripen

Can you give some examples of ToT that Sweden can provide to India?

Nope, India are getting F414 production for Tejas Mk2 and AMCA.
India is getting all the Engine ToT is going to get from the US for this project.
Nothing that stops India from producing F414 for Gripen as well.
Having the same engine for several planes is going to make logistics easier

Tejas MK2 and AMCA are on paper. We can talk when there is something concrete.

Sweden should first worry about Gripens for Sweden before lobbying for India.

Mattis reportedly threatens Swedish defense cooperation over nuclear treaty

https://www.defensenews.com/global/...dish-defense-cooperation-over-nuclear-treaty/

There has been no approval for assembling the engine for F-16 in India.
Lockheed Martin has no say in the engine discussion, so if India chooses
the F-16, it might have to buy 100 % of the engine from the US.

LM may not have a say but GOTUS surely does.

Not to mention all the parts India will have to buy from the Netherlands,
Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Turkey, U.K., Germany, South Korea etc.
due to Lockheed Martin signing away such rights.

Show me a source which confirms that these countries have exclusive rights to build the sub-components for LM?

 

[wiseone2]

India had tough time closing the earlier Rafale deal which had a unit price of ~$100 million and you expect your government to buy the next lot at $200 million a piece. Incredible! . With regards to ToT, No vendor is going to part away their hard earned critical IP. Not Russia, Not France, Not UK, Not Sweden and Not US. Naivety has no boundaries.

The first Rafale deal was $250 million per aircraft

 

[TheBlackCoat]

The first Rafale deal was $250 million per aircraft

Check the link that I posted. It says $100 million as unit price.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indi...nd-order-of-rafale.521861/page-3#post-9928260

 

[wiseone2]

Check the link that I posted. It says $100 million as unit price.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indi...nd-order-of-rafale.521861/page-3#post-9928260

$8.85 billion for 36 Rafales works out to $240 million per aircraft
https://www.defensenews.com/global/...-deal-with-france-for-36-rafale-fighter-jets/

 

[TheBlackCoat]

$8.85 billion for 36 Rafales works out to $240 million per aircraft
https://www.defensenews.com/global/...-deal-with-france-for-36-rafale-fighter-jets/

What about the cost of building the bases, weapons, spares, support etc.? The deal includes all of these. Unit cost is ~$100 Million a piece. You can get 2 F-16s for 1 Rafale.

 

[wiseone2]

What about the cost of building the bases, weapons, spares, support etc.? The deal includes all of these. Unit cost is ~$100 Million a piece. You can get 2 F-16s for 1 Rafale.

Cut the BS. the bases already exist. Rafales are replacing existing aircraft
what does etc. stand for ?

 

[TheBlackCoat]

Cut the BS. the bases already exist. Rafales are replacing existing aircraft
what does etc. stand for ?

You should go back and check the news. The bases were upgraded as part of the deal. Etc. includes customizations, cost of offsets..

 

[rajiv sharma]

Your Airforce does not want more Sukhois.

You government cannot afford more Rafales.

There are no other options but the US fighters.



With Gripen, India could only buy the engine.
With F-16s, India could assemble the engine.
India is looking for ToT and with Gripen deal ToT from US companies would be zero.

who said that , you ? the government of India can afford 44 complete squadrons of rafale , understand ? and tell you something more , it is impossible that F - 16 are owned by my country . more rafale + gripen and tejas will be the INTERMEDIATE choice . now you can waste your time in propaganda about american fighters .
tell you something more , safranised kaveri will be the engine we will use them in another 4-6 years and thereafter .
dont try to be western propagandist media house by saying no money to buy this and that and poverty in Bharat .
rafale deal is much more than what people like you assume and perceive it to be .
bye for now .

 

[punit]

Nope, India are getting F414 production for Tejas Mk2 and AMCA.
India is getting all the Engine ToT is going to get from the US for this project.
Nothing that stops India from producing F414 for Gripen as well.
Having the same engine for several planes is going to make logistics easier

There has been no approval for assembling the engine for F-16 in India.
Lockheed Martin has no say in the engine discussion, so if India chooses
the F-16, it might have to buy 100 % of the engine from the US.

Not to mention all the parts India will have to buy from the Netherlands,
Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Turkey, U.K., Germany, South Korea etc.
due to Lockheed Martin signing away such rights.

If the decision is taken on basis of technology alone .. Gripen is the most suitable A/C.. but there are many other geopolitical factors which favors F 16 70.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

India had tough time closing the earlier Rafale deal which had a unit price of ~$100 million and you expect your government to buy the next lot at $200 million a piece. Incredible! . With regards to ToT, No vendor is going to part away their hard earned critical IP. Not Russia, Not France, Not UK, Not Sweden and Not US. Naivety has no boundaries.



Can you give some examples of ToT that Sweden can provide to India?



Tejas MK2 and AMCA are on paper. We can talk when there is something concrete.

Sweden should first worry about Gripens for Sweden before lobbying for India.

Mattis reportedly threatens Swedish defense cooperation over nuclear treaty

https://www.defensenews.com/global/...dish-defense-cooperation-over-nuclear-treaty/




LM may not have a say but GOTUS surely does.



Show me a source which confirms that these countries have exclusive rights to build the sub-components for LM?

http://www.nytimes.com/1975/07/27/a...pe-the-f16-and-how-it-won-europes-orders.html

The deal is still in effect, so 15% of any Indian F-16s will be delivered by European Countries.

There were similar deals made with other countries.
Very similar to the F-35 contracts. All countries that joined the F-35 program early on have right to produce parts for the F-35.

The idea that F-16 can be produced using a single supply chain is ludicrous,
but Indians keep repeating that MANTRA.

Can you give some examples of ToT that Sweden can provide to India?

Tejas MK2 and AMCA are on paper. We can talk when there is something concrete.

Sweden should first worry about Gripens for Sweden before lobbying for India.

Mattis reportedly threatens Swedish defense cooperation over nuclear treaty

https://www.defensenews.com/global/...dish-defense-cooperation-over-nuclear-treaty/

LM may not have a say but GOTUS surely does.

SAAB/Sweden has spent $2B to design the Gripen E.
LM/The US has spent $50-60B to design the F-35.
There is plenty to be gained by knowing how to approach things.

The GaN based SAAB Radar and EW has already been offered to India.
One of the main customers for SAAB radars are the US Navy.
If it is good enough for the US Navy, it is probably good enough for India.

Regardless of your uninformed comments, there is a deal in place between India and the US
regarding the GE F-414.

The US is threatening to reduce joint exercises. They are not stupid, like You imply.