India Ahead : How will PAF counter IAF - FGFA/PAKFA ?

[hal-fgfa]

losses is not an appropriate word. Grounding of fleet is more appropriate.

BTW there are many undeclared.
and also do not count only Sukhoi's grounding but all russian jets grounding.

indian arm forces dont have these qualities that they hide things from word ..................its ur specialty .. like after 100 of undeclare fails just show when they get success ..and people think their success rate is 100%

 

[WAQAS119]

grow up dude ... .. please read the title of the thread

India Ahead : How will PAF counter IAF - FGFA/PAKFA ?
now u definitely feel embarrassed

go and tell this to your veteran IndianArmy, who was discussing this with us.

 

[sancho]

losses is not an appropriate word. Grounding of fleet is more appropriate.

BTW there are many undeclared.
and also do not count only Sukhoi's grounding but all russian jets grounding.

But you were talking about Su 30s, not all Russian fighters in IAF. The Migs of course have more problems, the Su 30s instead have a good reliability record in IAF that you can't deny and that's shows the difference of their quality and of the older Migs.

 

[WAQAS119]

indian arm forces dont have these qualities that they hide things from word ..................its ur specialty .. like after 100 of undeclare fails just show when they get success ..and people think their success rate is 100%

read these threads carefully......

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/10162-indian-army-faked-battle-laungewalla.html


http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/59436-army-analyse-tribunal-verdict-kargil-war-officer.html


http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/59436-army-analyse-tribunal-verdict-kargil-war-officer.html

this will surely improve your knowledge.

and if you want more links, do tell me.

 

[WAQAS119]

But you were talking about Su 30s, not all Russian fighters in IAF. The Migs of course have more problems, the Su 30s instead have a good reliability record in IAF that you can't deny and that's shows the difference of their quality and of the older Migs.

But this is for sure that Sukhoi 30 MKI were grounded twice as was declared. GOD knows better how many more were their.

 

[deckingraj]

But this is for sure that Sukhoi 30 MKI were grounded twice as was declared. GOD knows better how many more were their.

I am sorry i do not have gone through previous posts and still bumping in...

Are you saying Su-MkI is not a reliable platform??? As far as grounding goes it is a normal practice implemented by Air-Forces around when ever there is a crash especially in a new platform...Grounding does not mean that platform is incompetent...It is a safety measure to find out the reason behind the crash and to fix if there are any glitches(some part malfunction, Pilot error etc)

 

[SEAL]

Reason why Indian air force is ahead of Pakistan air force.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/general-images-multimedia/59585-paf-vs-iaf-comparison-indian-media.html#post888032

 

[hal-fgfa]

read these threads carefully......

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/10162-indian-army-faked-battle-laungewalla.html


http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/59436-army-analyse-tribunal-verdict-kargil-war-officer.html


http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/59436-army-analyse-tribunal-verdict-kargil-war-officer.html

this will surely improve your knowledge.

and if you want more links, do tell me.

no one can argue with who cant able to accept truth

i think we are talking about weapons not military ....(in 1971 wht ur army did in bangladesh we all know )

but being stupid cant help ...please stick to weapons if u can

 

[footmarks]

This should be kept in mind:



PAF in Kargil : A PAF warrior speaks out Pak Tea House


The bottom line is, since Kargil it is evident that the clear BVR superiority of IAF is the biggest problem for PAF. Not that IAF has more fighters, or that they now have Flankers, but the simple fact that even good PAF pilots with F16 B15 were most likely shot down way before they can prove their skills in dog fights.

In todays warfare with BVR missiles, lower RCS, AWACS and soon even stealth capabilities, the skill of a pilot in engaging an opponent is less important that it was in the past. Today you try to detect an enemy before he can and shoot first, that has nothing to do with skill, but with technology.
That's why PAF is countering this disadvantage by upgrading and new procuring of real 4th gen fighters (F16s and JF 17). In numbers and even in capability they still can't match IAF, but at least the clear
superiority in BVR will be reduced.

Regarding PAFs defense capabilities, I said it in the Indian defense section often too, not the new F16s, or JF 17 will be a problem for IAF in this decade, but the induction of AWACS in PAF! This capability is way more important for the defense than trying to counter the MKI for example 1 on 1. If you can detect it before it can cross border, you can also send fighters to engage them and if you could even guide BVR missiles via data links, even SD 10 will be a problem, let alone AMRAAM.
Exactly the same problem that PAF has now against IAF, although they Bisons won't win a dogfight against PAFs F16s, in BVR with MKI, or AWACS guidance, they will be more than a problem for these superior fighters.

That's why I don't see any alternative for IAF than procuring fighters with very low RCS for the future like the Euro Canards (through MMRCA), or 5. gen fighters like Pak Fa. These will be detected sooner, or later too, but will give the superiority again back to IAF.

First sight, first shoot!


Just my 2 cents about this, btw for Indian members that report should be interesting too, because it is always good to see things from a different point of view!

This indeed is a very interesting report my friend, as is your analysis attached. quite accurate and neutral.

 

[pak-yes]

This should be kept in mind:



PAF in Kargil : A PAF warrior speaks out Pak Tea House


The bottom line is, since Kargil it is evident that the clear BVR superiority of IAF is the biggest problem for PAF. Not that IAF has more fighters, or that they now have Flankers, but the simple fact that even good PAF pilots with F16 B15 were most likely shot down way before they can prove their skills in dog fights.

In todays warfare with BVR missiles, lower RCS, AWACS and soon even stealth capabilities, the skill of a pilot in engaging an opponent is less important that it was in the past. Today you try to detect an enemy before he can and shoot first, that has nothing to do with skill, but with technology.
That's why PAF is countering this disadvantage by upgrading and new procuring of real 4th gen fighters (F16s and JF 17). In numbers and even in capability they still can't match IAF, but at least the clear
superiority in BVR will be reduced.

Regarding PAFs defense capabilities, I said it in the Indian defense section often too, not the new F16s, or JF 17 will be a problem for IAF in this decade, but the induction of AWACS in PAF! This capability is way more important for the defense than trying to counter the MKI for example 1 on 1. If you can detect it before it can cross border, you can also send fighters to engage them and if you could even guide BVR missiles via data links, even SD 10 will be a problem, let alone AMRAAM.
Exactly the same problem that PAF has now against IAF, although they Bisons won't win a dogfight against PAFs F16s, in BVR with MKI, or AWACS guidance, they will be more than a problem for these superior fighters.

That's why I don't see any alternative for IAF than procuring fighters with very low RCS for the future like the Euro Canards (through MMRCA), or 5. gen fighters like Pak Fa. These will be detected sooner, or later too, but will give the superiority again back to IAF.

First sight, first shoot!


Just my 2 cents about this, btw for Indian members that report should be interesting too, because it is always good to see things from a different point of view!

Of the whole article you only noticed the lines saying BVRs and that IAF mobilized rapidly.What you didn't took notice is the whole theme of the article which says nobody not even services chiefs nor the prime minister nor anyone had been taken into confidence.When PA kept PAF in shadow how can you expect them to respond effectively.

 

[WAQAS119]

no one can argue with who cant able to accept truth

i think we are talking about weapons not military ....(in 1971 wht ur army did in bangladesh we all know )

but being stupid cant help ...please stick to weapons if u can

are you stupid by birth or gone stupid recently!!!
we all know what our army did in 49, 65 and 99, thrashed its opponents. BTW stick to the topic.

My post, you quoted, was a response to an idiot.

 

[sancho]

Of the whole article you only noticed the lines saying BVRs and that IAF mobilized rapidly.What you didn't took notice is the whole theme of the article which says nobody not even services chiefs nor the prime minister nor anyone had been taken into confidence.When PA kept PAF in shadow how can you expect them to respond effectively.

The article mainly is about the performance of PA and PAF during Kargil, but that is not related to the topic of this thread right? That's why I only pointed out some of the parts that said something about PAFs and IAFs attack and defense capabilties.
That PA left PAF in shadow might be true, but even if they would be in, in the planing from the start, would it change anything regarding the BVR capabilties of PAF?
No, but exactly that was the major handicap of PAF for successful missions, like the author said.
From my point of view that is still the main handicap that PAF has at the moment. If I'm not wrong, not even a dozen F16s with BVR capabilities yet and like it is discussed in the JF 17 thread, the first JFs seems not to get this capability and will be limited to ground attack only. So this handicap will remain till the all new and upgraded F16 will be inducted.

 

[IceCold]

The article mainly is about the performance of PA and PAF during Kargil, but that is not related to the topic of this thread right? That's why I only pointed out some of the parts that said something about PAFs and IAFs attack and defense capabilties.
That PA left PAF in shadow might be true, but even if they would be in, in the planing from the start, would it change anything regarding the BVR capabilties of PAF?
No, but exactly that was the major handicap of PAF for successful missions, like the author said.
From my point of view that is still the main handicap that PAF has at the moment. If I'm not wrong, not even a dozen F16s with BVR capabilities yet and like it is discussed in the JF 17 thread, the first JFs seems not to get this capability and will be limited to ground attack only. So this handicap will remain till the all new and upgraded F16 will be inducted.

You are misplaced here. That was only a rumor which has been corrected by many well informed members. JF-17 is fully BVR capable.

 

[SurvivoR]

Pakistan as for now can boost its all kinds of missile inventory as well as upgrade them. Make smaller deadlier nukes as well as EMP bombs etc. Till then we will get something to counter the Pak-fa's stealth. Thats all there is to Pak-fa.

 

[pak-yes]

The article mainly is about the performance of PA and PAF during Kargil, but that is not related to the topic of this thread right? That's why I only pointed out some of the parts that said something about PAFs and IAFs attack and defense capabilties.
That PA left PAF in shadow might be true, but even if they would be in, in the planing from the start, would it change anything regarding the BVR capabilties of PAF?
No, but exactly that was the major handicap of PAF for successful missions, like the author said.
From my point of view that is still the main handicap that PAF has at the moment. If I'm not wrong, not even a dozen F16s with BVR capabilities yet and like it is discussed in the JF 17 thread, the first JFs seems not to get this capability and will be limited to ground attack only. So this handicap will remain till the all new and upgraded F16 will be inducted.

listen man author is not using the desperate tone you are using.He said BVRs did provide a advantage but he also said that whenever F-16s were present border violations would decrease notably meaning your M2K even with BVRs didn't had the guts to face F-16s.

And BVR is highly over rated.Its not like that once loaded you just push a button and Boooom.You only have one shot of BVR before you come into line of sight.(Don't ask me who told me this because i dont remember all i remember that this thing was also said by a professional pilot).And if your shot misses or enemy takes evasive maneuver your element of surprise is gone.