India Ahead : How will PAF counter IAF - FGFA/PAKFA ?

[TechLahore]

WJ, it was not the result that India feared. it was the loses on our side forget the total destruction on the other.ers:

I want to establish one important fact here which keeps rearing its head in every indo-pak discussion. Once again it shows up in the text above. There is this implied position on the Indian side that while Pakistan will completely be destroyed in a nuclear confrontation, Indian losses will merely be 'large', but there will still be something to salvage. Let me just set the record straight. After an indo pak nuclear confrontation there will be no india and no Pakistan. Any survivors on either side will rue not being among those who died quickly.

Pakistan has close to or around 100 nukes and delivery capabilities that cover all of India. MIRV work is being done now and new reactors have come online which will only accelerate the rate at which the nuclear stockpile is developed. The more India invests in abm or other capabilities - or even talks about them - the more Pakistan will enhance its offensive nuclear ability. This is a zero sum situation.

So a full on war scenario for India and Pakistan equals complete and utter destruction. Let's not delude ourselves into thinking that either side will be better off.

 

[thunder rules]

I just hope the majority of Pakistani ppl and the Pakistani establishment feels that way

every one says that even our army general says that we would like to maintain minimum deterrence so that any country will think 100 times to attack us. and Pakistani people?? o common they are innocent people with pure hearts they just want to see Pakistan free from terrorism.

 

[ramu]

i knw its sad but its true.. they are against us and looking at their behavior vice versa from our side as well.. they are doing what even they can to destabilize pakistan , force pakisttan to provide access to its nukes by hook or by crook . they are working on their agendas and we are working on ours. when they cant see iran to get nukes how can they tolerate pakistan?? use ur head

Pakistan is facing action not because it is an Islamic country. No point is arguing in this forum if you are not willing to accept anything but expect others to see your point of view. I have used my head and I am asking you to.

India opposes Pakistan for reasons that are obvious and have very little to do with religion.

 

[thunder rules]

Pakistan is facing action not because it is an Islamic country. No point is arguing in this forum if you are not willing to accept anything but expect others to see your point of view. I have used my head and I am asking you to.

India opposes Pakistan for reasons that are obvious and have very little to do with religion.

i am afraid to say u dont have enough brain to understand my point and wont even get it ever . and the reason india oppose pakistan are just pathetic , we all knw we have hostile relations so when u have a right to improve ur defense so do pakistan has .. no other country has a right to inter fear in between did pakistan even cried over india defense spendings? i dont remember any thing like that. but india surly does time by time because they knw that the day india waged war against pakistan india will have to pay the price of it..

 

[ramu]

I want to establish one important fact here which keeps rearing its head in every indo-pak discussion. Once again it shows up in the text above. There is this implied position on the Indian side that while Pakistan will completely be destroyed in a nuclear confrontation, Indian losses will merely be 'large', but there will still be something to salvage. Let me just set the record straight. After an indo pak nuclear confrontation there will be no india and no Pakistan. Any survivors on either side will rue not being among those who died quickly.

Pakistan has close to or around 100 nukes and delivery capabilities that cover all of India. MIRV work is being done now and new reactors have come online which will only accelerate the rate at which the nuclear stockpile is developed. The more India invests in abm or other capabilities - or even talks about them - the more Pakistan will enhance its offensive nuclear ability. This is a zero sum situation.

So a full on war scenario for India and Pakistan equals complete and utter destruction. Let's not delude ourselves into thinking that either side will be better off.

We should then agree to disagree.

 

[deckingraj]

Let's be a little realistic here, the supposedly super duper MKIs have been in the Indian service for a decade, during most of this period Pakistan was under sanctions, take the 2002 stand off for example when a million souls were virtually eyeball to eyeball, the only luxury for Pakistan were a dozen or so F-7PGs, what stopped India from executing it's designs, more recently the terminologies of Cold start, surgical strikes have been laid on the back burner. One wonders what magic wand would PAK-FA posses to give PAF any headache, specially now since it's in a much stronger position than ever.
And let's not forget what Chuck Yeagar once commented, "A plane is only as good as it's pilot".

And what does that mean??? Care to elaborate on bolded part??? if that is the only ultimate way of looking at things then PAF would still be fielding Sabres...They don't so they do not buy into this notion of yours...

No doubt that better pilots on planes having similar specs(or atleast comparable) will win but is there a way to beat F-22 with a 4 generation plane??? Even a rookie pilot can bring down MKI being flown by the best pilot IAF can come up with...Now if PAF is going to field a F-22 can IAF sit back saying "Well a plane is as good as Pilot" so relax???? Don't you think you got to see the plane before one can use his/her pilot skills???? And you were saying people to be realistic????

Tell me what strategy, what plane, what measures you have to counter FGFA??? Atleast we have a programme in place to field a 5 generation plane in a decade from now...What do you have to counter it??? Only pilots will not do the job...You got to give them means to apply their skills to come up as winner...Secondly last time tow Air-Forces met was in 1971 and there are lot of controvertial theories about IAF and PAF performance...However just for the sake of it lets say PAF pilots were better trained than IAF but do you think same concept can be applied even now???

It don't need a genious to find out that PAF has lost a decade against their counterparts IAF...If we go by latest induction then we inducted first squadron of MKI(a 4.5 generation plane) in late 90's as compared to 0 squadron of JF17....With indian economy booming and India's new found morale to revive her depleting Armed Forces(IAF, IN, IA) there is hell lot of problems that you guys needs to overcome...

To conclude just relying on Pilots skills won't work...This is a war that you guys can never win unless and until you change the tide in geo-politics and revive your economy...

 

[kashith]

unfortunately its the only main deterrence we have against india because we are not getting support in order to get our desire defense equipment from west due to which might make Pakistan weaker in long term although Pakistan currently hold a very much lethal forces and defense equipment other then nukes but we have to think for future as well and west is hardly supporting Pakistan in this regard now we have few options like china . and its obvious nukes are the last option because both countries are nuclear capable and any misuse of such technology from india or pakistan will cause sever demages and dont worry our nukes are only to make india and israel to stay in her limits we dont intend to use them

i am all for deterrance..Let pakistan and India both stay peaceful and develop..regarding PAK-FA i dont think PAF needs to be scared as they are potent force for defence and may be in future we should have a defense pact..no first attack

 

[ramu]

i am afraid to say u dont have enough brain to understand my point and wont even get it ever . and the reason india oppose pakistan are just pathetic , we all knw we have hostile relations so when u have a right to improve ur defense so do pakistan has .. no other country has a right to inter fear in between did pakistan even cried over india defense spendings? i dont remember any thing like that. but india surly does time by time because they knw that the day india waged war against pakistan india will have to pay the price of it..

Seriously I said nothing about all the BS you have written.

Clearly you lack basis reading comprehension skills. I over estimated your ability to understand that country dynamics cannot be viewed within the prism of religion.

I will reply to your post once you agree to this basic tenet of international relations.

 

[deckingraj]

I want to establish one important fact here which keeps rearing its head in every indo-pak discussion. Once again it shows up in the text above. There is this implied position on the Indian side that while Pakistan will completely be destroyed in a nuclear confrontation, Indian losses will merely be 'large', but there will still be something to salvage. Let me just set the record straight. After an indo pak nuclear confrontation there will be no india and no Pakistan. Any survivors on either side will rue not being among those who died quickly.

Pakistan has close to or around 100 nukes and delivery capabilities that cover all of India. MIRV work is being done now and new reactors have come online which will only accelerate the rate at which the nuclear stockpile is developed. The more India invests in abm or other capabilities - or even talks about them - the more Pakistan will enhance its offensive nuclear ability. This is a zero sum situation.

So a full on war scenario for India and Pakistan equals complete and utter destruction. Let's not delude ourselves into thinking that either side will be better off.

but how does it explain the counter PAF have/will have against India's planned future induction in the name of FGFA?? I am sure you would agree that Pakistan cannot just rely on nukes right???

 

[Aslan]

If you can't contribute with a sane argument but simply butt in to troll ...
Never mind.

I am trolling, may be you should go through the last 3 pages again. Or may be never mind.

 

[thunder rules]

In this very forum, I can show you atleast 30 posts from Pakistanis who favour using terror networks for Pakistan's gain.

Search and you will find them. Not very difficult to find it. Not to mention but one of the moderators of this forum believes sending terrorists across the LoC is correct.

again different of perception even i can show the post of some indian occupied Kashmiries who say they love admire and respect those who come to rescue them from barbaric indian army opress going on der. see u need to differentiate killing of innocents and helping innocents by killing cruel oppressors the people u are talking abt they are not terrorist at least in the eyes of iok Kashmir untill and unless they dont kill any innocent. so try to differentiate .

and apart from that what ever few Pakistanis have said to u but are those only few Pakistanis represent whole Pakistani? what a negative and stupid stereotyping .. even i knw many indians who openly say india should nuke pakistan at onces. but do they represent whole india.. they are just few low life frustrated indians we dont pay any attention to them.

 

[deckingraj]

i am all for deterrance..Let pakistan and India both stay peaceful and develop..regarding PAK-FA i dont think PAF needs to be scared as they are potent force for defence and may be in future we should have a defense pact..no first attack

Sir, one has to be nuts to undermine the potency of PAF...In fact we would be playing as per the enemy cards if we undermine them...

Here the question is that FGFA is going to be the game changer...because you just can't expect a 4 generation plane to take on 5 generation plane just by Pilot Skills... As of now we do not know about any counter plans of PAF against indias 5 generation FGFA... Their only hope is China or bonhomie with US increases to a level that US just ignores India's concern and hand them F-22 or F-35....

China's 5 Generation Plane has yet to see light and India's increasing clout somewhat nullify's later option as well... So can you help a bit by putting some hypothetical scenario???

As far as peace is concerned well that's the ideal thing...Will save $ billions in mad arms race...

 

[aks]

just because of war on terror we are unable to achieve our economic goal's but we will take over these sponsered terrorists INSHALLAH few years back pakistan was one of the fastest growing asian country we have potential we will be back on track soon INSHALLAH

 

[ramu]

just because of war on terror we are unable to achieve our economic goal's but we will take over these sponsered terrorists INSHALLAH few years back pakistan was one of the fastest growing asian country we have potential we will be back on track soon INSHALLAH

Finally we have someone who thinks with his brain switched on. War will drain the resources of any country and it is understandable but Pakistan has potential. Change your corrupt politicians and bring someone like Imran Khan.

 

[aks]

Sir, one has to be nuts to undermine the potency of PAF...In fact we would be playing as per the enemy cards if we undermine them...

Here the question is that FGFA is going to be the game changer...because you just can't expect a 4 generation plane to take on 5 generation plane just by Pilot Skills... As of now we do not know about any counter plans of PAF against indias 5 generation FGFA... Their only hope is China or bonhomie with US increases to a level that US just ignores India's concern and hand them F-22 or F-35....

China's 5 Generation Plane has yet to see light and India's increasing clout somewhat nullify's later option as well... So can you help a bit by putting some hypothetical scenario???

As far as peace is concerned well that's the ideal thing...Will save $ billions in mad arms race...

lets suppose if a war broke between both countries indian FGFA changes the game of war etc etc ... can ur FGFA destroy moral of people who participated in wars against USSR n USA those pathans which are in millions even the most high tech USA force and the super power of past USSR was unable to handle them ... how ur forces gona manage such gorilaz they will fight to the last drop of there blood ... wars cant b win by only aircrafts

another example is of israel lebnon war