India Accepts Pakistan Air Force is a Leading Force

[Mani2020]

By Raja G Mujtaba

“The Pakistan Air Force is stronger than ever. Since the last Indo-Pak air war of 1971, the Pakistan Air Force has with steely determination built up numbers, lethal capabilities and a combat force now counted as one of the most disciplined and well-trained air forces in the world. Headlines Today has a disturbing proof that all this has made India worried.” India Today 20th April 2011

Over the years since 1971 the leadership and planners of Pakistan Air Force (PAF) have not slept, they did not believe in status quo. 1971 was the watershed period of PAF when the country had fallen from grace and truncated through internal and external conspiracies. To rise from ground zero is no mean job. But PAF has been lucky that by and large it remained in the hands of committed, dedicated professionals who took the challenge from the horn.

The US, true to its traditions dried all sources of military hardware and economic resources. But those sanctions proved blessing in disguise. Pakistan looked inwards and laid the foundations for self reliance with technical assistance from dependable friendly countries like China, Ukraine, Sweden etc. France was also willing to provide but its costs were prohibitive that kept the cooperation to a minimum level.

The bulk work was done with the cooperation of China that helped Pakistan in almost all the defence production, overhauling and rebuilding. The foundation of Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Kamra was laid. Here a very modest beginning was made when the light Swedish aircraft (Mashak) was launched as a basic trainer to meet the needs of PAF and Pakistan Army. From assembly to manufacture and enhancement this aircraft became the training bed for a full fledged fighter aircraft production.

F-6 Rebuild Factory that rebuilt the Chinese MIG 19s re-designated by PAF as F-6. When all other sources had dried and Pakistan did not have the finances to go for highly expensive Mirage aircraft F-6 became the mainstay of PAF. It was modernized with latest avionics, ejection seats, armament, breaking system and taxing capability that added much more lethal power to an old vintage technology.

On the drawing boards of F 6 Rebuild Factory, newer aircraft designs were developed that were given computer simulation for design tests. First a Super Saber that was to be developed on the frame of MIG 21 or F-7 fighter bomber but due to some technical snags, it was called off. Then with a little gap and new thought process, a brand new design was developed with active participation of China the end product was JF 17 that exceeded all the performance parameter envelop by significant margins. This aircraft was designed, built, tested and inducted in the PAF in a record time.

JF 17 is a close match to F 16 with a huge price difference. It has been displayed at International Air Shows of China and Farnborough in the UK where it was admired by all. It soon became the most fancied aircraft of the developing world for its performance and low price tags and complete absence of any strings. China has also emerged as a major buyer with 300 copies of JF 17 and about the same number would be acquired by PAF.

Its not just the Chinese origin induction but PAF has also received latest F 16s that has a total strength of 60 aircraft half of which are block 52, the latest upgrade. The F-16 As already on the inventory of PAF are also undergoing major upgrade and soon will become equivalent to Block 52 version, in capabilities.

Not stopping here, as reported by India Today in its latest issue, “There’s a deeper threat at play than just fighter numbers. Consider these newly inducted force multipliers that all but kill the Indian air advantage. Pakistan is inducting four Swedish Saab Erieye and four Chinese Y-8 airborne early warning aircraft, while India, currently, has three. India no longer has the mid-air refueller advantage. Pakistan is inducting four identical IL-78M aircraft.”

After the acquisition of four mid-air refuelers (IL-78) from Ukraine and early warning systems like Saab 2000 from Sweden and ZDK-03 from China, PAF has had a quantum jump in reducing the gap with India over technology and firepower.

Whereas Pakistan is fast phasing out its old vintage, India is still stuck with old Russian equipment that is fast losing its edge over Pakistan. India Today states, “Finally, with an ageing Soviet fleet of aircraft (MIGs)that are troublesome and facing retirement, the Air Force looks at an even greater dip in the numbers advantage. The message to the Defence Ministry and the government is simple. Cut your losses and plan hard for the future. If you don’t, the Indian Air Force will lose the one thing you’ve always counted on: its combat edge.”

PAF has not stopped here. According to official sources, PAF is in the process of acquiring J10 the latest machine from China. The exact number or its assembly or production in Pakistan has not yet been finalized. This aircraft would surpass most of the advance jet fighters and compete with any aircraft in its class.

Now most PAF aircraft are nuclear capable and all can be refueled in mid-air. This is a punch that’s hard to match in any given theatre. What PAF lacked in deep penetration aircraft has more than made up with mid air refueling and latest F-16 Block 52 aircraft, which has a long range.

In last decade, the induction of latest aircraft by PAF has completed the requirements of fighting a modern concept of net centric war, in future. All these modern aircraft and allied air defence systems acquired by PAF are now fully integrated in a net centric environment, ready to deliver a decisive blow to the enemy in any future encounter.

Seems like an old article specially after reading certain lines ,which reflect the article was written either before the induction of first Erieye or immediately after its induction and the first one was inducted almost 2 years ago

 

[Mani2020]

PAF is top notch airforce. I don't think IAF will have any chance against it after couple of years.

Stop being artificial man ,come on tell the truth ,don't hide your true gut feeling just for the sake of pleasing few

 

[TOPGUN]

Haters can hate and trolls can go crazy both can die all the way to hell.. lolz PAF is one of the best in the world and always will be no matter what anyone says and its well on its way on a better path then ever i know many loose sleep and just can't see PAF being what it is so my advise to you dumb a$$'s take a chill pill and think of something productive to do in your free time rather then going crazy about PAF jerks....

 

[Mo12]

Haters can hate and trolls both can die all the way to hell.. lolz PAF is one of the best in the world and always will be no matter what anyone sayd and its well on its way on a better path then ever i know many loose sleep and just can't see PAF being what it is so my advise to you dumb a$$'s take a chill pill and think of something productive to do in your free time rather then going crazy about PAF jerks....

Who would in a dog fight IAF or PAf?

 

[TOPGUN]

Who would in a dog fight IAF or PAf?

First of all i can't seem to understand your eng... write it again so one can understand second of all iam doing just proving a point got nothing to do with your iaf this is about PAF no one else relax to many haters and trolls these past days so its time to bring them back to reailty dada.

 

[Donatello]

First of all i can't seem to understand your eng... write it again so one can understand second of all iam doing just proving a point got nothing to do with your iaf this is about PAF no one else relax to many haters and trolls these past days so its time to bring them back to reailty dada.

I assume, he wanted to say "Who would win....." but his fingers hit the "submit reply" button before his mind could actually check what he wrote, and if it made any sense, like countless others on this forum.

Perhaps part of a larger Indian Cyber Army? Or a part time job?

 

[TOPGUN]

I assume, he wanted to say "Who would win....." but his fingers hit the "submit reply" button before his mind could actually check what he wrote, and if it made any sense, like countless others on this forum.

Perhaps part of a larger Indian Cyber Army? Or a part time job?

Haha i agree with you bro it is more of a full time job to them eat, sleep,sh_t and piss and do it all over again with Pakistan and its armed forces in mind lossers lolz

 

[madooxno9]

soft loans

and again soft loans dude

BHAI ye SOFT LOAN ka SILSILA kab tak chalega............ aur kya kya loge soft loan par

 

[Luftwaffe]

The Invitation to Disaster
(Sorry the better one I wrote it got wasted due to slow process of this website)
Take it as an Article or an overview Information. My only focus is Air Force Fleet not radars/communications/SAMs systems procurements.

An advise to certain reader don't jump at me, read it understand it and next time do discuss the Blunders, Worst Decisions and setting for the much inferior. Worst of all knowing that we are under capable PAF hierarchy gave a cold shoulder to PAF's needs/requirements. Please understand it if you are getting nothing from one party you can always switch to another one with equally better performance product sacrifice cost for the performance (We have Paid more then what F-16 and its equipment is priced at because we are in need of it Desperately). It doesn't mean you keep quiet and do nothing and wait for a miracle to happen. The blame for those disastrous decisions of two decades upon the shoulder of Pakistan Air Force hierarchy.

PAF "The Lost DecadeS", The Story starts right from 1989 and on wards, I am going to add in the decade and years pre and post 9 11 up till now. The reason is Just because PAF has completed Joint project JF-17/FC-1 doesn't make PAF automatically into the driving seat to rule the skies. I can remember MastanKhan and many other men associated with PAF that it take years to Master and know it inside out similar to PAF handling of F-16s.
By 1980/1990 PAF was badly looking for a standard highly technological combat aircrafts because PAF had the Cash in hand to a point to pay more than half for the procurements. This is on the Record.

Here is a shocker. PAF evaluated of one of the most promising Fighter that is still alive and kicking. Panavia Tornado a multirole combat aircraft was actively evaluated by PAF as an option. And Do you people know why it was rejected? Because the version PAF was looking for or the upgrades were not offered by British. And do you know what we opt for instead of an MRCA PAF was looking for? F-7P.
I can imagine how the goofs pickedup Chinese F-7P as an MRCA and sidelined British Panavia Tornado which was still miles and years ahead in technology from F-7P, PAF could have upgraded later on.

Lets Move on and see thought the early 1990s evaluation process. We went back to French and asked for the Mirages before we pickedup those F-7P. Know that PAF evaluated Mirage 2000s from 80s and now into 90s we went back and the deal failed for the prime reasons of Cost and Mr. zardari's request for the kick backs which is normal all over the world in fighter market deals. PAF later on tried to cleaned up the mess by accusing France of not selling a fully capable version which was not True, French offered the top notch variant to PAF but PAF backout due to Price Tag. I want to Question PAF why did we backedout of the deal when we had the money, Why did we backout when we were offered better product at the time which was better then anything in our Air Force Inventory. Were we so out of money that we could not procure 2 squadrons of Mirage 2000s that was a pathatic attempt on part of PAF to clarify its position of accusing French which the real culprit was PAF.

Those Mirage 2000 were just in grasp of PAF when the deal stalled due to cheap PAF mentality up the order. The short sightedness caused us 20/22 Years. What more can we expect PAF was later offered Mirage 2000-5 the most modern high-tech fighter that PAF could get Deal was scrapped again.

Allow me to enlighten you that PAF bought F-7Ps and returned a squadron and a few more for extensive upgrades thus spending more. That is what happens when Plans go wrong and bad decisions takes palce, When you buy a better product you don't get to return them. A bad choice. Would PAF had any problem with Panavia Tornados or Dassault Mirage 2000/Mirage 2000-5, veraily Not.

So I end here with comments for those who are still singing the nightingale songs, PAF blundered not once but many time from Tornados to Mirage 2000s and so on.

Please don't come up with any counter replies I and many sane minded are not interested in Justifying protecting PAF's no need to wipe it they were dirty all those years up till now. Let it be a piece of information for others who are living in the dark about PAF's wonderful purchases settling for low cost instead of quality and performance and then speak at every bloody party we have secured our airspace because We did not.

 

[applesauce]

The Invitation to Disaster
(Sorry the better one I wrote it got wasted due to slow process of this website)
Take it as an Article or an overview Information. My only focus is Air Force Fleet not radars/communications/SAMs systems procurements.

An advise to certain reader don't jump at me, read it understand it and next time do discuss the Blunders, Worst Decisions and setting for the much inferior. Worst of all knowing that we are under capable PAF hierarchy gave a cold shoulder to PAF's needs/requirements. Please understand it if you are getting nothing from one party you can always switch to another one with equally better performance product sacrifice cost for the performance (We have Paid more then what F-16 and its equipment is priced at because we are in need of it Desperately). It doesn't mean you keep quiet and do nothing and wait for a miracle to happen. The blame for those disastrous decisions of two decades upon the shoulder of Pakistan Air Force hierarchy.

PAF "The Lost DecadeS", The Story starts right from 1989 and on wards, I am going to add in the decade and years pre and post 9 11 up till now. The reason is Just because PAF has completed Joint project JF-17/FC-1 doesn't make PAF automatically into the driving seat to rule the skies. I can remember MastanKhan and many other men associated with PAF that it take years to Master and know it inside out similar to PAF handling of F-16s.
By 1980/1990 PAF was badly looking for a standard highly technological combat aircrafts because PAF had the Cash in hand to a point to pay more than half for the procurements. This is on the Record.

Here is a shocker. PAF evaluated of one of the most promising Fighter that is still alive and kicking. Panavia Tornado a multirole combat aircraft was actively evaluated by PAF as an option. And Do you people know why it was rejected? Because the version PAF was looking for or the upgrades were not offered by British. And do you know what we opt for instead of an MRCA PAF was looking for? F-7P.
I can imagine how the goofs pickedup Chinese F-7P as an MRCA and sidelined British Panavia Tornado which was still miles and years ahead in technology from F-7P, PAF could have upgraded later on.

Lets Move on and see thought the early 1990s evaluation process. We went back to French and asked for the Mirages before we pickedup those F-7P. Know that PAF evaluated Mirage 2000s from 80s and now into 90s we went back and the deal failed for the prime reasons of Cost and Mr. zardari's request for the kick backs which is normal all over the world in fighter market deals. PAF later on tried to cleaned up the mess by accusing France of not selling a fully capable version which was not True, French offered the top notch variant to PAF but PAF backout due to Price Tag. I want to Question PAF why did we backedout of the deal when we had the money, Why did we backout when we were offered better product at the time which was better then anything in our Air Force Inventory. Were we so out of money that we could not procure 2 squadrons of Mirage 2000s that was a pathatic attempt on part of PAF to clarify its position of accusing French which the real culprit was PAF.

Those Mirage 2000 were just in grasp of PAF when the deal stalled due to cheap PAF mentality up the order. The short sightedness caused us 20/22 Years. What more can we expect PAF was later offered Mirage 2000-5 the most modern high-tech fighter that PAF could get Deal was scrapped again.

Allow me to enlighten you that PAF bought F-7Ps and returned a squadron and a few more for extensive upgrades thus spending more. That is what happens when Plans go wrong and bad decisions takes palce, When you buy a better product you don't get to return them. A bad choice. Would PAF had any problem with Panavia Tornados or Dassault Mirage 2000/Mirage 2000-5, veraily Not.

So I end here with comments for those who are still singing the nightingale songs, PAF blundered not once but many time from Tornados to Mirage 2000s and so on.

Please don't come up with any counter replies I and many sane minded are not interested in Justifying protecting PAF's no need to wipe it they were dirty all those years up till now. Let it be a piece of information for others who are living in the dark about PAF's wonderful purchases settling for low cost instead of quality and performance and then speak at every bloody party we have secured our airspace because We did not.

well if pakistan at that time bought the cheaper stuff rather than the more capable planes, then where did the money go? whatever they spent the "extra" money(money saved since they bought the cheaper planes) on, let compared that with what benefits the tornado or the mirage 2k could have had

 

[Luftwaffe]

applesauce, That is the dilemma where did the money end up as much as $7.5 Billion had been spent on F-7P/PG, Mirage III/V purchases and upgrades, k-8/P, F-16s and upgrades. That is all PAF had spend on the Air Force fleet over the years for 20/22 Years. I am not going to discuss extra weapons and other systems and OR $550 Million on JF-17 Thunder that too is loaned money from China/IMF and what not : ) bad news my dear fellas. When you spend specific amount on weapons and fleets over this long time you should come up with something credible to challenge your opposition. Now our primary opposition is who?
India
US/NATO

We cannot ignore the facts that NATO/US would not strike inside Pakistan, US has clearly warned Pakistan 2/3 days ago they will hit back inside Pakistan. It is also cleared up that F-18s were patrolling near close to Western Border inside Afghanistan Incase.

 

[Donatello]

applesauce, That is the dilemma where did the money end up as much as $7.5 Billion had been spent on F-7P/PG, Mirage III/V purchases and upgrades, k-8/P, F-16s and upgrades. That is all PAF had spend on the Air Force fleet over the years for 20/22 Years. I am not going to discuss extra weapons and other systems and OR $550 Million on JF-17 Thunder that too is loaned money from China/IMF and what not : ) bad news my dear fellas. When you spend specific amount on weapons and fleets over this long time you should come up with something credible to challenge your opposition. Now our primary opposition is who?
India
US/NATO

We cannot ignore the facts that NATO/US would not strike inside Pakistan, US has clearly warned Pakistan 2/3 days ago they will hit back inside Pakistan. It is also cleared up that F-18s were patrolling near close to Western Border inside Afghanistan Incase.

The F-18s were probably from the carrier air wing, currently in North Arabian Sea. I don't see how even a full squadron of those can be lethal to full PAF.

However, Pakistan needs to define what is acceptable and what is not. US transgressing should then be responsible if any of it's assets or men are lost.
Please note that a similar thing happened, The Gulf of Tonkin Accident, which led to full out US engagement and embarrassment in Vietnam. Most US history books state that the US Naval ships were fired upon by the North.....however, it is now accepted, that those waters were off limit. With ongoing heat, it was obvious that one shell or two might hit US Ships, which were deliberately sailing there, providing an excuse that this was provoking. What happened next, we all know.

How long can Pakistan let US raid into it's territory? I guess then that day Afghanistan-Pakistan become one. PAF men are under oath to guard their homeland. They laid their lives against India, why should US be so different? I mean if India would have done an inch of incursion, the whole country would be in battle mode. What's wrong now? 1.5 billion $ in aid money? That doesn't look much for a country whose GDP is well over 100billion $. (Nominal)

 

[Luftwaffe]

How is it you are going to challenge US Navy/Air Force.

The Question is PAF got its fairshare for the past 2 decades and the only thing it could come up with for its mrca was F-7P/PG and thrice drilling a hole into the French Mirage 2000/-5 Deals and handful of fsolah. Are all thrice timers due to French arrogance and stupidity or PAF.
So No I am forced to conclude PAF is to blame for everything, no one must come out and praise PAF's Top Hierarchy, when hard earned money got channeled into someone else's pocket.

 

[Donatello]

How is it you are going to challenge US Navy/Air Force.

The Question is PAF got its fairshare for the past 2 decades and the only thing it could come up with for its mrca was F-7P/PG and thrice drilling a hole into the French Mirage 2000/-5 Deals and handful of fsolah. Are all thrice timers due to French arrogance and stupidity or PAF.
So No I am forced to conclude PAF is to blame for everything, no one must come out and praise PAF's Top Hierarchy, when hard earned money got channeled into someone else's pocket.

Luftwaffe,

I respect your views, and I too have changed my views about the Professionalism of PAF, since the OBL raid. I am sure every person, from mechanic to F-16 pilot is feeling bad as well, but like i said, it has now come for a time when we define clearly what our goals are and how to accomplish them. We cannot continue to pay the price ,so that people half the world away can enjoy peace, while the rest of the world sleeps in fear.

BTW, a future engagement with Pakistan would be probably US-Pakistan......not NATO.
NATO is made up of countries like Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Turkey, UK.....all of which have not cried against Pakistan publicly as bad as the US has. NATO engagement with Pakistan would mean support from the aforementioned members, and while they are locked in Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya they would rather refrain from opening more battle fronts. Yes US is the biggest NATO constituent, but perhaps it would be alone in this regard.




About the hard earned money part, we are the ones stealing Electricity and evading Taxes......i guess beggars can't really be choosers.

 

[Tumba]

BS


Current Inventory of Indian Air Focre ...

Su - 30 MKI --- 150+
Mirage 2000 will get UPG --- 51
Mig - 29 Getting UPG --- 70
Mig - 21 Bison --- 200
Mig - 27 UPG --- 120+
Jaguar UPG --- 170+

AWACS - 3
Air Refuelers - 6

Future Plans ...

Su - 30 MKI -- Nos will go close to 300
MRCA --- Nos will go to 200
PAK FA/FGFA -- Nos will go close to 300
AMCA -- Design approved by MOD
LCA MK1/MK2 --- Production Lines Opening

Naval Aviation

Mig - 29K -- 10+ .. nos will go upto 45 ... with 45 more options in future
N-MRCA -- Nos will go close to 2 Naval Sq



Pakistan Current Inventory

F-16 ... 63 ... out of which 18 are BLK 52 ... rest 45 MLU work still no progress.. eyeing for more ...
JF-17 -- 30+
Mirage III --- 100
Mirage V -- 60
F-7 --- 160

So current Inventory is around 400+ out of which only around 100 are 4th Gen... in which only 18 are 4.5 Gen

How will PAF face 150 current Su-30 MKI of 4.5 Gen... with 18 F-16 BLK 52 ....???

Air Refuelers -- 4
AEW&C -- 4 SAAB + 1 Y-8...
Future Plans of PAF...

J-10B... will start arriving by 2013+ .... nos may go close to 100+
JF-17 .. nos will go close to 250+

no plans for 5th Gen... most likely will be Chinese 5th Gen... which will start production around 2016+... PAF wont get it any sooner ... PLAAF will first start filling its nos... i wont see PAF getting one before 2022-23+


PAF stands no chance right now... and in future there will never be any chance ...