India Accepts Pakistan Air Force is a Leading Force

[foxbat]

And on what ground were those facts proven. When was the last time an IAF pilot was involved in air combat and shot down an enemy aircraft or carried out any other hot mission like a ground strike while facing anti-aircraft fire. ??
Please don't drag any exercise into this since boards don't hit back. !!

How many time any of the current serving pilots in PAF did either of the above in .. say last 20 years..

 

[Windjammer]

How many time any of the current serving pilots in PAF did either of the above in .. say last 20 years..

Several victors from Soviet/Afghan war serving in some senior posts, not forgetting the current crop carrying out routine strike missions against the insurgents. On that note.......watch this space.

 

[DARKY]

And on what ground were those facts proven. When was the last time an IAF pilot was involved in air combat and shot down an enemy aircraft or carried out any other hot mission like a ground strike while facing anti-aircraft fire. ??
Please don't drag any exercise into this since boards don't hit back. !!

Kargil 1999.

According to Indian sources,

MiG-29s from the IAF's No. 47 squadron (Black Archers) gained missile lock on two F-16s of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) which were patrolling close to the border to prevent any incursions by Indian aircraft, but did not engage them because no official declaration of war had been issued. The Indian MiG-29s were armed with beyond-visual-range air-to-air missiles whereas the Pakistani F-16s were not.

A Pakistani source,

I have been out of the PAF for a few years now- and in some respects have as much access to sources now as some civvie aviation fanatics- but still do retain contacts which give me the inside scoop sometimes. Here's my unbiased opinion on what happened in this incident. First some disclaimers- the IAF NEVER gave Chibber a big gallantry award- this was a routine award for a job well done- like an Air Medal in the USAF- not an award in the league of a Medal of Honor or DFC! Secondly, in this particular occasion, the PAF was bested- there, I said it- there's no shame in it- there have been many occasions in the past conflicts of 1965 and 1971 when it was the other way around- any professional pilot will tell you that success and failure are two sides of the same coin- anyone who claims to be invincible is lying or an adolescent amatuer masquerading as a professional. To lay this story to rest- and though the PAF is understandably not keen to trumpet it around town- those in the know know- lets keep it at that, so I'm not exactly revealing any state secrets.

The PAF in Kargil was NEVER tasked to aggressively counter the IAF (forget the crap about them being scared)- it was very much an Army (read Musharraf) show- with even the civilian leadership in the dark about some aspects. Our friendly neighborhood tinpot dictator (Musharraf) then looked for scrapegoats- so he got rid of Nawaz and then turned on the PAF for not doing its job (bullshit!!!) by firing much of its top brass recently. Forgive me for digressing, but as someone who dedicated his life to the service of Pakistan, I hate to see it falling back into dictatorship. But the key message is- the PAF was never under orders to engage the IAF, unless they crossed the LOC. On this occasion, I gather the Indian MiG-27s did cross the LOC briefly and the local NLI commander who was having the crap bombed out of him called in desparately for support- the PAF, which had been frustrated at having to sit it out till now, saw an opportunity to bloody the IAF nose as they were reported to have crossed the LOC. Two Falcons on alert were vectored into the MiGs, but received the jolt of their lives when an IAF MiG-29 locked onto BOTH of them (to answer the ongoing debate I see on this aspect of the IAF Mig-29s capability). They tried to break lock- but the MiG persisted, and while I do agree they could have pressed home- there were some controlling factors:
1) strict orders not to cross the LOC
2) Hell, they thought they were about to get a salvo of R-27s up their noses...as an aside, one of the Falcon pilots was a greenhorn and was pretty shaken by this experience- got razzed to death for weeks afterwards.

What would have happened if the Falcons had pressed home- who knows???? The MiG had a definite BVR edge and in close combat with the R-73/HMS, all bets are off. Plus, if the Falcons did cross the LOC, they would have been fair game to any other MiG-29s lurking about as they would no longer be over friendly terriotory- sometimes discretion is the better part of valour, n'est c'est pas?

However it was another Mig which was involved in the bloody encounter.

A Pakistan Navy's Naval Air Arm Breguet Atlantique patrol plane, carrying 16 people on board, was shot down by the Indian Air Force for alleged violation of airspace. The episode took place in the Rann of Kutch on August 10, 1999, just a month after the Kargil War.

Besides the bombing raids made by IAF Mirage 2000, Mig 27 Aircrafts which accounted for the most of the casualties made on the enemy during the war.

A Mig 27 was lost due to engine failure and a Mig 21(sent in for the rescue of Mig 27 pilot) suffered a stinger missile attack.

Other than that not much of a significant contribution... while the PAF remained inside hangers.

Several victors from Soviet/Afghan war serving in some senior posts, not forgetting the current crop carrying out routine strike missions against the insurgents. On that note.......watch this space.

Soviets left Afghanistan in 1989 Its has been 23 years since.

And If the Insurgents have any significant anti-aircraft system they would be happy to shoot down American Helos on way to Abottabad or the Predator drones which account for most of their losses.

 

[DARKY]

Almost forgot to add this one here...

May (1997), an Indian Force (IAF) Mikoyan MiG-25RB Foxbat-B reconnaissance aircraft created a furore when the pilot flew faster than Mach 2 over Pakistani territory following a reconnaissance mission into Pakistan airspace. The Foxbat broke the sound barrier while flying at an altitude of around 65,000 feet, otherwise the mission would have remained covert, at least to the general public. The Pakistan Government considered the breaking of the sound barrier as deliberate: to make the point that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has no aircraft in its inventory which can come close to the cruising height of the MiG-25 (up to 74,000 feet).

However, from one of PAF's Forward Operating Bases, radar traced the intruder and the F-16As scrambled. Sources in the PAF said that there was no need to intercept a plane flying at the altitude of 65,000 feet as the F-16 can reach an operating ceiling of 55,000 feet.

India denied the incident but Pakistan's Foreign Minister, Gohar Ayub Khan, believed that the Foxbat photographed strategic installations near the Capital, Islamabad. Interestingly, the two countries signed a 'Prevention of Air Space Violations' agreement in April 1991, which recognized that PAF and IAF aircraft operate near each other's airspace. The agreement permitted overflights and landings by military aircraft, but certainly not airborne reconnaissance.

PAF and F-16 pilots can relax as the Foxbat Sqadron the Tri-sonics have been retired for some time now.

 

[Fieldmarshal]

India Defeated In The First Round


Adm. Mike Mullen asked Pakistan for a guarantee that Pakistan Air Force will not respond to Indian surgical strikes. General Kayani is said to have responded with showing Mullen a photograph of an IAF Mirage-2000 locked by Pakistan Air Forces� F-16 taken on December 13. �Next time, we�ll bring it down�, Mullen was told. To make sure the message was loud and clear, Pakistan Air Force jets started patrolling the skies in hot mode and a red-alert was issued throughout the country. The Indian war rhetoric has failed to impress Pakistan. Instead, the focus is now shifting to Indian intelligence agencies� failure to put together credible evidence implicating Pakistan in the Mumbai attacks.

You indians have come to the border time and time again, threatening to attack but have never dared. that can all be explained to your psyche and the fact that you were ruled by us for over a 1000 years.
You can talk all u want indians but the fact of the matter is that through out the history of the sub continent not even once has any one from the east staged an attack against the west. through out history invaders and conquers have always been coming to ravage, pillage, kill and rape you indians from the west.

 

[Storm Force]

FIELD MARSHAL

Your remark

through out history invaders and conquers have always been coming to ravage, pillage, kill and rape you indians from the west.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...air-force-leading-force-35.html#ixzz24MByQYCh

Would love to see ANY NATION try to invade rape plillage India today...

Gives the indians a chance to REALLY TEST their AKULA/NERPA & ARIHANT nuke subs and their 5000km AGNI ABM

never mind HISTROY

what you got today /now THAT COUNTS THE MOST

BAK TO TOPIC PAF a leading air force

 

[Windjammer]

@ DARKY, Locking an aircraft and shooting it down are two different ball games, there was an occasion when an IAF Fulcrum flight was locked and tailed for several miles, only after GCI warned them that they panicked and nearly crashed into each other and don't forget the famous incident where your Super Duper MKI was locked and escorted out near Lahore and same with the Mirage-2000 over Kashmir sector. Posting images of Atlantique shoot down may float your boat but it speaks volumes about IAF's morals, shooting down an unarmed aircraft, size of an airliner probably does qualify as air combat in Indian rule books but it's not how the PAF works..... ask your Gujarat's former energy minister.
The Soviets indeed left over 20 years earlier yet some PAF pilots from that era are serving in senior posts, but since you posted the Atlantique picture, care to elaborate where is that MiG-21 pilot now...... for last i heard was that he ended up as Fish food.
Albeit, the insurgents have some potent fire-power at their disposal, however, for an aircraft even an AK-47 can prove lethal or perhaps you are oblivious to an other incident when in 1971, a Pakistani ground trooper managed to shoot down an IAF Mystere Jet with his G-3 assault rifle.
Unlike some, PAF doesn't take pride in shooting down big unarmed aircraft with Mach-2 jets, however it believes in taking out superior fighters, like these two Indian MiG-21s with less capable aircraft, one was blown up by an obsolete F-86 and the other's tail was set on fire by an F-6.

 

[chauvunist]

@ DARKY, Locking an aircraft and shooting it down are two different ball games, there was an occasion when an IAF Fulcrum flight was locked and tailed for several miles, only after GCI warned them that they panicked and nearly crashed into each other and don't forget the famous incident where your Super Duper MKI was locked and escorted out near Lahore and same with the Mirage-2000 over Kashmir sector. Posting images of Atlantique shoot down may float your boat but it speaks volumes about IAF's morals, shooting down an unarmed aircraft, size of an airliner probably does qualify as air combat in Indian rule books but it's not how the PAF works..... ask your Gujarat's former energy minister.
The Soviets indeed left over 20 years earlier yet some PAF pilots from that era are serving in senior posts, but since you posted the Atlantique picture, care to elaborate where is that MiG-21 pilot now...... for last i heard was that he ended up as Fish food.
Albeit, the insurgents have some potent fire-power at their disposal, however, for an aircraft even an AK-47 can prove lethal or perhaps you are oblivious to an other incident when in 1971, a Pakistani ground trooper managed to shoot down an IAF Mystere Jet with his G-3 assault rifle.
Unlike some, PAF doesn't take pride in shooting down big unarmed aircraft with Mach-2 jets, however it believes in taking out superior fighters, like these two Indian MiG-21s with less capable aircraft, one was blown up by an obsolete F-86 and the other's tail was set on fire by an F-6.

Dont be that hard on kids Sir,else they will start crying....

 

[MilSpec]

@ DARKY, Locking an aircraft and shooting it down are two different ball games, there was an occasion when an IAF Fulcrum flight was locked and tailed for several miles, only after GCI warned them that they panicked and nearly crashed into each other and don't forget the famous incident where your Super Duper MKI was locked and escorted out near Lahore and same with the Mirage-2000 over Kashmir sector. Posting images of Atlantique shoot down may float your boat but it speaks volumes about IAF's morals, shooting down an unarmed aircraft, size of an airliner probably does qualify as air combat in Indian rule books but it's not how the PAF works..... ask your Gujarat's former energy minister.
The Soviets indeed left over 20 years earlier yet some PAF pilots from that era are serving in senior posts, but since you posted the Atlantique picture, care to elaborate where is that MiG-21 pilot now...... for last i heard was that he ended up as Fish food.
Albeit, the insurgents have some potent fire-power at their disposal, however, for an aircraft even an AK-47 can prove lethal or perhaps you are oblivious to an other incident when in 1971, a Pakistani ground trooper managed to shoot down an IAF Mystere Jet with his G-3 assault rifle.
Unlike some, PAF doesn't take pride in shooting down big unarmed aircraft with Mach-2 jets, however it believes in taking out superior fighters, like these two Indian MiG-21s with less capable aircraft, one was blown up by an obsolete F-86 and the other's tail was set on fire by an F-6.

G3 rifle is a bullshit pakistani claim, so such thing ever happened...

as far as gloating on f86 shooting down mig21's, please do not discount Gnats shooting down the mighty f86,

 

[Contrarian]

Paf is a leading airforce in south Asia if you don't count the iaf. The technological gap bw iaf and Paf is widening.

 

[Alphacharlie]

@ DARKY, Locking an aircraft and shooting it down are two different ball games, there was an occasion when an IAF Fulcrum flight was locked and tailed for several miles, only after GCI warned them that they panicked and nearly crashed into each other and don't forget the famous incident where your Super Duper MKI was locked and escorted out near Lahore and same with the Mirage-2000 over Kashmir sector. Posting images of Atlantique shoot down may float your boat but it speaks volumes about IAF's morals, shooting down an unarmed aircraft, size of an airliner probably does qualify as air combat in Indian rule books but it's not how the PAF works..... ask your Gujarat's former energy minister.
The Soviets indeed left over 20 years earlier yet some PAF pilots from that era are serving in senior posts, but since you posted the Atlantique picture, care to elaborate where is that MiG-21 pilot now...... for last i heard was that he ended up as Fish food.
Albeit, the insurgents have some potent fire-power at their disposal, however, for an aircraft even an AK-47 can prove lethal or perhaps you are oblivious to an other incident when in 1971, a Pakistani ground trooper managed to shoot down an IAF Mystere Jet with his G-3 assault rifle.
Unlike some, PAF doesn't take pride in shooting down big unarmed aircraft with Mach-2 jets, however it believes in taking out superior fighters, like these two Indian MiG-21s with less capable aircraft, one was blown up by an obsolete F-86 and the other's tail was set on fire by an F-6.

I read this article with Pinch of Salt.

In Uniform we used to always say- Past is done with, Glory needs to be Rewritten again and again for FUTURE Generations to remember us. Follwoed with a shot of Old Monk (Rum)

 

[foxbat]

Several victors from Soviet/Afghan war serving in some senior posts, not forgetting the current crop carrying out routine strike missions against the insurgents. On that note.......watch this space.

How many of them do active flying duty at this time..?

What anti aircraft weaponry does the Taliban process.. If nothing (as i understand) then the current crop is simply doing an exercise of shooting fish in a barrel.. No ???

Paf is a leading airforce in south Asia if you don't count the iaf. The technological gap bw iaf and Paf is widening.

Have you factored in the ratio of 1 Muslim Pakistani Plane = 10 Hindu Indian Plane ?

 

[Windjammer]

G3 rifle is a bullshit pakistani claim, so such thing ever happened...

The name of the shooter, other detail all available in CALT log book.

as far as gloating on f86 shooting down mig21's, please do not discount Gnats shooting down the mighty f86,

As for as aircraft capability is concerned, i must say, you are a genius in the field sir. !!

 

[DARKY]

@ DARKY, Locking an aircraft and shooting it down are two different ball games, there was an occasion when an IAF Fulcrum flight was locked and tailed for several miles, only after GCI warned them that they panicked and nearly crashed into each other and don't forget the famous incident where your Super Duper MKI was locked and escorted out near Lahore and same with the Mirage-2000 over Kashmir sector. Posting images of Atlantique shoot down may float your boat but it speaks volumes about IAF's morals, shooting down an unarmed aircraft, size of an airliner probably does qualify as air combat in Indian rule books but it's not how the PAF works..... ask your Gujarat's former energy minister.
The Soviets indeed left over 20 years earlier yet some PAF pilots from that era are serving in senior posts, but since you posted the Atlantique picture, care to elaborate where is that MiG-21 pilot now...... for last i heard was that he ended up as Fish food.
Albeit, the insurgents have some potent fire-power at their disposal, however, for an aircraft even an AK-47 can prove lethal or perhaps you are oblivious to an other incident when in 1971, a Pakistani ground trooper managed to shoot down an IAF Mystere Jet with his G-3 assault rifle.
Unlike some, PAF doesn't take pride in shooting down big unarmed aircraft with Mach-2 jets, however it believes in taking out superior fighters, like these two Indian MiG-21s with less capable aircraft, one was blown up by an obsolete F-86 and the other's tail was set on fire by an F-6.

Only If you read what the PAF pilot had to say about the Incident... "success and failure are two sides of the same coin".
Those F-16 tried to Break the lock.. however the Mig29 pilot persisted and forced them to withdraw... now for a civilian its nothing happened and the "aircraft was only locked and not shot down" or "they are tow different things"... however from a military point of view... the F-16 lost and flew back home.. never came back due to the fear of being shot down leaving Its ground troops at the mercy of enemy attack planes like Mig 27... not shooting the F-16 was a better result for IAF... since had it shot down more and more F-16 would've been scrambled making the Job of other attack planes difficult.

There's only one blog reporting about Su30MKI and M2K being locked... too many holes in that story and a lot false pride propaganda... unless there is some credible version of that story nothing can said about it.

The Atlantique Incident was a result of poor air traffic control by PN and PAF and sheer stupidity of Atlantique Pilots who tried to outsmart a supersonic Interceptor by out running it... as evident from the HUD image... about the death of Mig pilot in an air crash... that could happen to any Pilot and nothing better than warrior ending up with his tools.. a sailor dies on his ship and not on some cozy bed.

Yet they can't shoot a stupid drone which fly as slow as an attack chopper... at the time of attack.

Many F-86 also got shot down in the process... Mig 21 is an Interceptor and not air-air combat fighter.

Dont be that hard on kids Sir,else they will start crying....

Too Jobless... you don't have to **** him for that.

 

[chauvunist]

^^^^ i already requested sir WJ not be hard especially on you and look you have started to cry....come on bud take it easy...