India abandons UN Security Council seat ambitions

[peaceful]

Japan was not a military by its choice and legacy of WW2, in India's case if India becomes an economic powerhouse it will also build an effective military force, having a huge economic, military and political power would be hard to ignore. But again, it will take few more decades for that to happen.

this is not true.

your whole argument is based on the assumptions that: 1) india will keep developing, 2) india will be an unified nation forever. both are highly unlikely.

1. with a 30 years economic gap, the current development speed in india is far slower than Chinese in 1980s. yet the inflation is much higher. the government basically failed to regulate the economy. GFC told us this is damn dangerous. e.g. a shitty apartment in Mumbai can be damn expensive, while the slums are killing poors. eventually people will fight for such huge economic gap.

2. historically, there is no nation called india in this world. that is the reason why people in india speak different languages follow different religions. Not saying this it bad, the problem here is statistically, eventually these different ethnic groups want independence. that is also the reason why not all lands are under your central government's control. freedom fighters are actually seeking what want for.

 

[Veritas]

not saying india need to give land to any of these nation as return for support.

but india has to pay something to them to gain the support, this is the way how international politics works.



EU has two members states in P5, Germany will never get the permanent seat. A combined 800 million population doesn't need to be represent in UNSC by three veto powers. Period.

Japan is nothing when it comes to economy. Numerous models predicts the economy of Japan will be only comparable to the economy of Nigeria in 2050. Let me tell you this dude: in China, we don't like to compare our economy with Japan's. a more reasonable comparison we would like to use is to compare it with the Yangtze River Delta. You should grow up a little bit, bring some vision into yourself. When it comes to such long term reforms, it is never about economy in 2011, it is about what happens in 30 years.

Let me put it like it is friend, India will not comprimise its principle, soverignity and integrity for a UNSC seat, if China wants something reasonable, may be they will get it, like say Indian vote supporting them here and there, or opening up India to certain sectors for trade etc. That is where the give and take happens.

The idea of India abandoning its long standing claim for Kashmir and giving Arunachal Pradesh for UNSC seat, is a non-starter.

Long term vision, India will be most populous country in the world, if the current growht rate is sustained top 5 economy in the world, with 2nd largest arable land in the world after USA, and bunch of other good stuff. It is not lack of vision or promise of future that is containing India in UN. It is the beauracratic red-tape, intertia along with international diplomatic deadlock.

 

[Veritas]

this is not true.

your whole argument is based on the assumptions that: 1) india will keep developing, 2) india will be an unified nation forever. both are highly unlikely.

1. with a 30 years economic gap, the current development speed in india is far slower than Chinese in 1980s. yet the inflation is much higher. the government basically failed to regulate the economy. GFC told us this is damn dangerous. e.g. a shitty apartment in Mumbai can be damn expensive, while the slums are killing poors. eventually people will fight for such huge economic gap.

2. historically, there is no nation called india in this world. that is the reason why people in india speak different languages follow different religions. Not saying this it bad, the problem here is statistically, eventually these different ethnic groups want independence. that is also the reason why not all lands are under your central government's control. freedom fighters are actually seeking what want for.

Expecting India to have same kind of growth trajectory that of China is completely Insane. No we do not blow and rebuild bridges to hype the GDP. In India much of the growth is because of private sector and free enterprise, the government actually is the problem. The problem is not government regulation or lack of regulatory policy, the lack of smart regulation and enforcement. So, may be India would not rival China, may be India is doomed, but we can only predict, my thinking is there is room for improvement and certainly the future looks promising, the question how the country will negotiate the issues.

The whole idea of India would not exist in the current shape, is certainly unsound thinking, I would put the same thing to China what would happen to PRC when CCP falls. Scenarios of disintergration exists for almost all countries, the states do not have militias and there are only few cases of regional clashes given the size of India. I am not saying things are pretty, but they are far from bleak, to be honest there are downright boring.

 

[peaceful]

Let me put it like it is friend, India will not comprimise its principle, soverignity and integrity for a UNSC seat, if China wants something reasonable, may be they will get it, like say Indian vote supporting them here and there, or opening up India to certain sectors for trade etc. That is where the give and take happens.

The idea of India abandoning its long standing claim for Kashmir and giving Arunachal Pradesh for UNSC seat, is a non-starter.

I am giving an example. You are more than welcomed to insist on your own.

The basic idea is simple: when you want to get something big from someone, you give them something big. This is how international politics works and I am 100% sure you won't deny it. "vote supporting them here and there, or opening up India to certain sectors for trade" is tiny, not even remotely on the same scale.

Let me give a taste on what UNSC veto power mean: your nation will be able to decide whether Libya should be invaded by the NATO, whether Israel can keep its current capital. this is not a "vote for support", you decide it.

Long term vision, India will be most populous country in the world, if the current growht rate is sustained top 5 economy in the world, with 2nd largest arable land in the world after USA, and bunch of other good stuff. It is not lack of vision or promise of future that is containing India in UN. It is the beauracratic red-tape, intertia along with international diplomatic deadlock.

so funny, so funny.

Arable land is only important when you don't have an industralized economy. during those dark ages, your people want food and thus arable land is important.

Let me tell you something that China is facing for its huge population:
1. currently 18 million cars are being sold in China every damn single year, it is a huge pressure on infrastructure, gas supply, even parking
2. our universities have almost 30 million registered full time students, every June millions of them graduate, you need to create millions of skilled jobs for them alone.
3. in Shanghai, we have 270+ metro stations, all built in the past 15 years, hundreds extra are being constructed, yet the newly opened stations get overloaded on its first week after opening. 10 million people moved into Shanghai in the past decade.

now do you still believe most populous is an advantage?.

trust me dude, we Chinese have an average IQ of 105, higher than most nations, when we carry out the one child policy, it is not design to weak ourselves. it is designed to make us stronger.

 

[Veritas]

I am giving an example. You are more than welcomed to insist on your own.

The basic idea is simple: when you want to get something big from someone, you give them something big. This is how international politics works and I am 100% sure you won't deny it. "vote supporting them here and there, or opening up India to certain sectors for trade" is tiny, not even remotely on the same scale.

Let me give a taste on what UNSC veto power mean: your nation will be able to decide whether Libya should be invaded by the NATO, whether Israel can keep its current capital. this is not a "vote for support", you decide it.



so funny, so funny.

Arable land is only important when you don't have an industralized economy. during those dark ages, your people want food and thus arable land is important.

Let me tell you something that China is facing for its huge population:
1. currently 18 million cars are being sold in China every damn single year, it is a huge pressure on infrastructure, gas supply, even parking
2. our universities have almost 30 million registered full time students, every June millions of them graduate, you need to create millions of skilled jobs for them alone.
3. in Shanghai, we have 270+ metro stations, all built in the past 15 years, hundreds extra are being constructed, yet the newly opened stations get overloaded on its first week after opening. 10 million people moved into Shanghai in the past decade.

now do you still believe most populous is an advantage?.

trust me dude, we Chinese have an average IQ of 105, higher than most nations, when we carry out the one child policy, it is not design to weak ourselves. it is designed to make us stronger.

You are missing the point, anyway, India does not need to be a photo-copy of China to go to UNSC, heck we do not need to photo-copy of anything for that matter. Its crazy how you keep on concoting these crazy arguments, if China is awesome so be it. All India is a country with promise of future and great challenges, may be when China becomes and OECD country we should sit down and talk how great it is. For now China is a developing country, so you are there. Russia another UNSC member is notorious for many things, that only thing propping them is the cold-war era tech they developed and commodity prices and large mineral resources. So we cannot be Russia too. Arable land, comes to play esp. we can sustain a level food production which seems to next forte with world population growing, I did not make that point clear.

economically, militarily and politically vaccuum is being created esp. with the turn of events since 2008 and India will fill in parts of it. I do not want to make China - India comparision because India is not China, our growth story is bottom-up where China's is top-down.

 

[peaceful]

Expecting India to have same kind of growth trajectory that of China is completely Insane. No we do not blow and rebuild bridges to hype the GDP. In India much of the growth is because of private sector and free enterprise, the government actually is the problem. The problem is not government regulation or lack of regulatory policy, the lack of smart regulation and enforcement. So, may be India would not rival China, may be India is doomed, but we can only predict, my thinking is there is room for improvement and certainly the future looks promising, the question how the country will negotiate the issues.

1. Typical nonsense. The private sector in China generates 75% of the GDP while hiring 80% of the workforce. I don't think it is significantly different from india.

2. Han Chinese counts for 92% of the population, another 3% of minorities have very very close link with Han Chinese, e.g. Manchu, Miao, Tujia. 95% of people speak Chinese at home. It is also our 4200 years tradition to maintain a unified China -- the biggest political achievement for any Chinese political figure in history is always to maintain the union or re-establish such union.

now you tell me which nation faces more domestic issues?

 

[peaceful]

You are missing the point, anyway, India does not need to be a photo-copy of China to go to UNSC, heck we do not need to photo-copy of anything for that matter. Its crazy how you keep on concoting these crazy arguments, if China is awesome so be it. All India is a country with promise of future and great challenges, may be when China becomes and OECD country we should sit down and talk how great it is. For now China is a developing country, so you are there.

this is a political thread about UNSC permanent membership. it has nothing to do with economic development or its models.

Russia another UNSC member is notorious for many things, that only thing propping them is the cold-war era tech they developed and commodity prices and large mineral resources. So we cannot be Russia too. Arable land, comes to play esp. we can sustain a level food production which seems to next forte with world population growing, I did not make that point clear.

Russia got its membership because of its huge contribution in the WWII.

economically, militarily and politically vaccuum is being created esp. with the turn of events since 2008 and India will fill in parts of it. I do not want to make China - India comparision because India is not China, our growth story is bottom-up where China's is top-down.

Typical nonsense again.

In Shanghai alone, we have 5.5 million people with university degrees. Every year 18 million Chinese families buy their first car and upgrade their way of life. You tell me which country's development model is more bottom-up? We have 69 Fortune 500 companies, second only to the US, yet these companies didn't make China the world factory, million of private factories in Zhejiang, Jiangsu, Guangdong made it.

But I agree that it is human nature to choose to believe what they want to believe.

 

[Veritas]

1. Typical nonsense. The private sector in China generates 75% of the GDP while hiring 80% of the workforce. I don't think it is significantly different from india.

2. Han Chinese counts for 92% of the population, another 3% of minorities have very very close link with Han Chinese, e.g. Manchu, Miao, Tujia. 95% of people speak Chinese at home. It is also our 4200 years tradition to maintain a unified China -- the biggest political achievement for any Chinese political figure in history is always to maintain the union or re-establish such union.

now you tell me which nation faces more domestic issues?

US has been around 250 years now fire away your arguments.

 

[peaceful]

US has been around 250 years now fire away your arguments.

??

if their economy is only a few thousand $ per capita, then you might see people leaving the country and you will see state to seek independence.

again, they have a unified language and culture, a shared history and very proud achievement. that makes them a great unified nation.

the same can't be said for india.

 

[Stargate]

BTW, UN or UNSC and any such organizations are useless. Today, only countries or entities with the adequate population, innovative, scientific and military prowess have a say; until then, been members of organization like UN is a waste of time.

 

[peaceful]

BTW, UN or UNSC and any such organization is useless. Today, the only country or entity with the adequate population, innovative, scientific and military prowess have a say; until then, been members of organization like UN is a waste of time.

UN and UNSC is very useful.

It helps to justify your war with a foreign nation if you can get it backed by UNSC (e.g. NATO vs. Libya).

 

[Stargate]

Maybe you should read "Arthur Balfour" books and statements to understand the current world we are living in.

 

[Veritas]

??

if their economy is only a few thousand $ per capita, then you might see people leaving the country and you will see state to seek independence.

again, they have a unified language and culture, a shared history and very proud achievement. that makes them a great unified nation.

the same can't be said for india.

So, you think India is just an abstract out of a European mind? Very uninformed and again shallow POV, I do not think your have gravitas to critique Indian history.

US was a poor country when Texas joined the Union in 1840s. FYI.

 

[Novice09]

??

if their economy is only a few thousand $ per capita, then you might see people leaving the country and you will see state to seek independence.

again, they have a unified language and culture, a shared history and very proud achievement. that makes them a great unified nation.

the same can't be said for india.

So you have completed your research on India? We Indians are proud for our unity in diversity...

On point... Still their is no official word from the GoI so it is better to take a chill pill and keep assuming about UN bid

 

[jbond197]

1. It is also our 4200 years tradition to maintain a unified China -- the biggest political achievement for any Chinese political figure in history is always to maintain the union or re-establish such union.

Are you sure you were united through out all those 4200 years? What was warring state period? what about Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms? Did you forgot the mighty mongols who thrashed you? In the end, you are free today thanks to the western countries.. Had that not been the case you would have been enslaved by Japanese today..