India abandons UN Security Council seat ambitions

[Chinese-Dragon]

As I mentioned to another poster in #49, please reference to see that the UNSC parmanent seat was offered to India...

As Bombenstrum pointed out, that was just an "Urban Legend".

I recall that part being an urban rumor .

The Hindu: dated September 28, 1955: UN seat: Nehru clarifies

From Nehru himself:

Prime Minister Nehru has categorically denied any offer, formal or informal, having been received about a seat for India in the UN Security Council. He made this statement in reply to a short notice question in the Lok Sabha on September 27 by Dr. J.N. Parekh whether India had refused a seat informally offered to her in the Security Council. The Prime Minister said: "There has been no offer, formal or informal, of this kind. Some vague references have appeared in the press about it which have no foundation in fact.

The composition of the Security Council is prescribed by the UN Charter, according to which certain specified nations have permanent seats. No change or addition can be made to this without an amendment of the Charter. There is, therefore, no question of a seat being offered and India declining it."

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

As Nehru himself said above, there are five nations, which have their names written into the UN charter.

It has never changed from country to country, only from government to government.

For China it was first represented by the RoC, then transferred to the PRC.

For Russia, it was first represented by the USSR, later succeeded by the Russian Federation.

And the UN Charter cannot be changed, without the unanimous approval of ALL the P5 members.

Charter of the United Nations: Chapter XVIII: Amendments

 

[grey boy 2]

As Bombenstrum pointed out, that was just an "Urban Legend".



From Nehru himself:

As Nehru himself said above, there are five nations, which have their names written into the UN charter.

It has never changed from country to country, only from government to government.

For China it was first represented by the RoC, then transferred to the PRC.

For Russia, it was first represented by the USSR, later succeeded by the Russian Federation.

And the UN Charter cannot be changed, without the unanimous approval of ALL the P5 members.

Charter of the United Nations: Chapter XVIII: Amendments

Bro, you should know by now, they feed on "internet hoax". As i recalled, i use to have a hard time trying to convince them the so-called 36% Indian scientist in Nasa claim was fake.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Bro, you should know by now, they feed on "internet hoax". As i recalled, i use to have a hard time trying to convince them the so-called 36% Indian scientist in Nasa claim was fake.

That's why I bookmark those sources.

 

[peaceful]

Some members there are just too naive and childish

When it comes to international politics, it is all about exchange of interests. If india wants something from China, UNSC permanent membership support in this case, then you have think what india can offer to China. The offer clearly need to be big enough to exchange for UNSC permanent membership support. You don't just send your head of state to China for a visit and then we extend you our support.

If you want something from China, think about it, what you can offer to China? For this matter, give up South Tibet and Kashmir sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Veritas]

India very likely abandoned its bid for UNSC, Germany, Brazil, Japan may have come to a conclusion that they could not convince UN general assembly at large that they are worthy of a seat at the table.

So this is a defeat, India should move on to do better things still engaging actively in UN, IMF and World Bank. It is not a question of if, only a question of When, so keep chugging and making progress one day at a time.

 

[Veritas]

Some members there are just too naive and childish

When it comes to international politics, it is all about exchange of interests. If india wants something from China, UNSC permanent membership support in this case, then you have think what india can offer to China. The offer clearly need to be big enough to exchange for UNSC permanent membership support. You don't just send your head of state to China for a visit and then we extend you our support.

If you want something from China, think about it, what you can offer to China? For this matter, give up South Tibet and Kashmir sounds reasonable to me.

China can do what it pleases. In WTO talks and many other forums China always found a realiable ally in India, given the convergence of interests vis-a-vis trade and Geopolitical issues. China is not India's enemy, China has border disputes perhaps dozen countries including India and Russia.

Asking Arunachal Pradesh for UNSC seat is like your auditor asking to sleep with your wife to give a report. The question is how much you need the good report, India wants to to be UNSC member, it is not a need. So, thanks but no thank. We cannot be a country with dignity by giving away soverignity on large swaths of our land.

 

[peaceful]

India very likely abandoned its bid for UNSC, Germany, Brazil, Japan may have come to a conclusion that they could not convince UN general assembly at large that they are worthy of a seat at the table.

So this is a defeat, India should move on to do better things still engaging actively in UN, IMF and World Bank. It is not a question of if, only a question of When, so keep chugging and making progress one day at a time.

pretty naive. for two reasons:

1. due to its own domestic corruption and terrible economic status, there is not much engagement can be achieve in the first place. to really engage, india need to abandon its corrupt system first.

2. it is NEVER about how hard you work, it is about what P5 can get from accepting india. e.g. why China should accept india to be permanent member? what China can get from india?

 

[peaceful]

China can do what it pleases. In WTO talks and many other forums China always found a realiable ally in India, given the convergence of interests vis-a-vis trade and Geopolitical issues. China is not India's enemy, China has border disputes perhaps dozen countries including India and Russia.

when these two nations cooperate in international forums, they do it to protect their own interests. that is both nations see it is the best option available, both get something in return.

UNSC is an exclusive club, each permanent member has the veto power to block the UNSC resolution on its own. I don't see how india can help China in this.

Asking Arunachal Pradesh for UNSC seat is like your auditor asking to sleep with your wife to give a report. The question is how much you need the good report, India wants to to be UNSC member, it is not a need. So, thanks but no thank. We cannot be a country with dignity by giving away soverignity on large swaths of our land.

india as a nation doesn't need it so badly, I 100% agree.

the problem is the regime in new delhi needs it. for 2 reasons:

1. re-election.
2. fuel nationalism to shift the angry about its corruption and economic failure.

since you live in the US, you probably already observed the huge different between indian-americans and Chinese-Americans there. Almost all Chinese doing well there eventually go back to China, while most high achieving indians will stay in the US for their entire career.

why? because there is no real hope in india under the corrupt regime.

 

[faithfulguy]

If thats true then we should start conducting test which we are feared would cause international outrage like ASAT, ICBM like Surya etc.

India does not have these capabilities.

 

[Veritas]

pretty naive. for two reasons:

1. due to its own domestic corruption and terrible economic status, there is not much engagement can be achieve in the first place. to really engage, india need to abandon its corrupt system first.

2. it is NEVER about how hard you work, it is about what P5 can get from accepting india. e.g. why China should accept india to be permanent member? what China can get from india?

You are the one who is naive, the UN reform is not like, If India gives China its entire North East, its not like two months latter we go to UNSC as perm member. If that is the case, what should we give to Russia, US, France and Britan.

India along with Germany, Brazil and Japan have failed to convince with their formula for UNSC reform. So, that is the case. Your shallow analysis is very much reflective our either you lack of knowledge of what exactly happend.

If economics were the case, Germany is the center of European economy and Japan is the third largest in the world. They beat China and Russia like a rented mule when it comes to corruption indices. The entire G-4 gave up on the idea of reform.

 

[peaceful]

Bro, you should know by now, they feed on "internet hoax". As i recalled, i use to have a hard time trying to convince them the so-called 36% Indian scientist in Nasa claim was fake.

only stupid morons buy such cheap joke.

 

[faithfulguy]

"Looks like the propoganda effect is wearing out for India..first NSG not UNSC??
India super power, India world power..now dreams turning into deflated baloon ! "

You are dreaming. India can get its geo political objectives achieved one way or another. The political capital that would be required would rather be spent getting terrorist scum killed in pak via US drones.

If we dont get a UNSC seat, it dosen't weaken us, it weakens the legitimacy of the UNSC. Well still be the 3rd largest economy and a global power soon. UNSC is a charade and you know it too.

Sorry to burst your bubble

Japan was the world's 2nd largest economy for a long time. UNSC legitimacy was there for all these time.

 

[Veritas]

Japan was the world's 2nd largest economy for a long time. UNSC legitimacy was there for all these time.

Japan was not a military by its choice and legacy of WW2, in India's case if India becomes an economic powerhouse it will also build an effective military force, having a huge economic, military and political power would be hard to ignore. But again, it will take few more decades for that to happen.

 

[peaceful]

You are the one who is naive, the UN reform is not like, If India gives China its entire North East, its not like two months latter we go to UNSC as perm member. If that is the case, what should we give to Russia, US, France and Britan.

not saying india need to give land to any of these nation as return for support.

but india has to pay something to them to gain the support, this is the way how international politics works.

If economics were the case, Germany is the center of European economy and Japan is the third largest in the world. They beat China and Russia like a rented mule when it comes to corruption indices. The entire G-4 gave up on the idea of reform.

EU has two members states in P5, Germany will never get the permanent seat. A combined 800 million population doesn't need to be represent in UNSC by three veto powers. Period.

Japan is nothing when it comes to economy. Numerous models predicts the economy of Japan will be only comparable to the economy of Nigeria in 2050. Let me tell you this dude: in China, we don't like to compare our economy with Japan's. a more reasonable comparison we would like to use is to compare it with the Yangtze River Delta. You should grow up a little bit, bring some vision into yourself. When it comes to such long term reforms, it is never about economy in 2011, it is about what happens in 30 years.