Inbred Nation

[Cheetah786]

Cousin marriages: 3 siblings suffer from rare congenital bone disease
By Kashif Zafar
Published: June 2, 2011

Doctors say the condition is incurable as the disease is genetic.
BAHAWALPUR:

A woman has appealed to the chief minister for help because three of her seven children are suffering from a severe congenital disease.

Nazirabad Colony resident Imtiaz Bibi, has seven children and three of them have been suffering from a severe bone disorder.

“They have been suffering since they were children and the doctors said that they couldn’t do anything to solve the problem because the disease was genetic,” Imtiaz Bibi said.

Imtiaz Bibi’s husband Malik Allah Datta is a day labourer and earns Rs200 a day. “We can barely feed the entire family so it has been nearly impossible to pay my children’s medical bills. They can’t walk and their knees are locked,” he said. “They were born this way and we haven’t been able to find any cure. My children have been suffering and we have taken them to several doctors but they don’t know what to do,” he added.

Datta’s youngest son, Shah Zaib, 18, said that he was a matric student who had been suffering from muscular problems all his life. “When I was younger, I could still walk even though I had disjointed knees but now the disease has gotten much worse,” he said. Zaib added that the disease constantly made him feel weak and he could barely move now. “The illness has progressed to my spine and I can’t even move my neck properly,” he added.

Munaza, 26, said that she had been suffering from the same disease for the past ten years. “My growth stopped when I was thirteen and my legs began to bend unnaturally. Now, I can’t walk or move my left hand and it gets worse every year,” she said. Munazza said that she and her siblings suffered the most during winter season. “The problem gets much worse in the winter because our entire bodies hurt constantly,” she said.

Aisha, 27, told reporters that she had been born with the same condition as her siblings and could barely move. “My family has had a very hard time caring for us and supporting us despite the fact that they have no money. We cannot even help out,” she added. Imtiaz Bibi said that they visited the OPD twice a month but the doctors did not treat her children. “They keep ignoring us and turning us away,” she said.

QMC Medical College principal Dr Mazhar said that the reason doctors were unable to find a cure was because the disease was genetic. “This is a common occurrence in cousin marriages. Congenital diseases often crop up in these cases and all these children have malformed spinal chords and locked legs. It is a congenital bone disorder and we can’t cure it. All we can do is to provide them with medicines and we have done that,” he said.

Imtiaz Bibi and Allah Datta have appealed the president, the prime minister and the Punjab chief minister to help them afford treatment for their children.

Genetical disease
A pathological condition caused by an absent or defective gene or by a chromosomal aberration. Also called hereditary disease, inherited disorder.

All humans can and do get sick so the argument if you marry outside your family your kids will not get the disease is dumb kids will inherit a disease regardless if its the cousins that are married or total strangers unless people start to marry machines or animals disease is a part of life i have visited hospital for sick kids in west and have seen 1000s of sick kids with different sickness and there parents are not cousins some are not even from same race.

examples of Pakistani doctors is a joke we all no this poor man doesn't have the money to pay the bills and doctors have simply decided its easier to tell them there is no cure then to try helping them cause he has no way of making a dollar out of this it says more about the pathetic doctor then marrying cousins.

 

[Awesome]

Its worse if you're a minority, minorities have to stick together, literally. They have a smaller gene pool to fish from.

One of my Shia friend was recently on the prowl for an arranged marriage (no parents so he had to participate in the arranged process too). He had issues like "Yeh Zaidi hai, yeh Rizvi hai, Yeh Mahdi hai..." I forgot which one it was that he wanted.

So religion is at play. Of course the majority does it too. Sometimes its also a matter of opportunity. If you get to socialize only among your cousins and the concept of "We are all brothers and sisters" has not been indoctrinated into you, that potentially opens up avenues of some gutargu, that would normally not be there for the young crowd.

But usually Cousin marriages I've seen are those where the decision of their marriage has been made by the parents since their childhood.

 

[Awesome]

Genetical disease
A pathological condition caused by an absent or defective gene or by a chromosomal aberration. Also called hereditary disease, inherited disorder.

All humans can and do get sick so the argument if you marry outside your family your kids will not get the disease is dumb kids will inherit a disease regardless if its the cousins that are married or total strangers unless people start to marry machines or animals disease is a part of life i have visited hospital for sick kids in west and have seen 1000s of sick kids with different sickness and there parents are not cousins some are not even from same race.

examples of Pakistani doctors is a joke we all no this poor man doesn't have the money to pay the bills and doctors have simply decided its easier to tell them there is no cure then to try helping them cause he has no way of making a dollar out of this it says more about the pathetic doctor then marrying cousins.

I think the issue is in particular with diseases like down syndrome.

 

[muse]

Cheetah786


Please note the part highlighted in Red :

“This is a common occurrence in cousin marriages. Congenital diseases often crop up in these cases and all these children have malformed spinal chords and locked legs. It is a congenital bone disorder and we can’t cure it. All we can do is to provide them with medicines and we have done that,”

 

[muse]

The defensive positions some have taken is itself rather revealing ---- Look we have a lot of problems, maybe we can do without such a serious problem for society - a problem we are ill equipped to handle

 

[Awesome]

The defensive positions some have taken is itself rather revealing ---- Look we have a lot of problems, maybe we can do without such a serious problem for society - a problem we are ill equipped to handle

A kinder approach is also needed. The purpose should be to get a message through, not to back people into defensive positions. People with parents or spouses who are cousins would easily take it as personal where as its all a matter

 

[muse]

Its worse if you're a minority, minorities have to stick together, literally. They have a smaller gene pool to fish from.

One of my Shia friend was recently on the prowl for an arranged marriage (no parents so he had to participate in the arranged process too). He had issues like "Yeh Zaidi hai, yeh Rizvi hai, Yeh Mahdi hai..." I forgot which one it was that he wanted.

So religion is at play. Of course the majority does it too. Sometimes its also a matter of opportunity. If you get to socialize only among your cousins and the concept of "We are all brothers and sisters" has not been indoctrinated into you, that potentially opens up avenues of some gutargu, that would normally not be there for the young crowd.

But usually Cousin marriages I've seen are those where the decision of their marriage has been made by the parents since their childhood.

I am once again going to ask that we focus on the kind of economy we have - it is, in my opinion, also responsible for the kind of social order we perpetuate - think about degree of separation - think about the insular nature of the social order, that is to say, even though Pakistan is a giant nation, the pool of persons and the likelihood of relationships forming is rather slight - even though we are supposedly a Muslim nation, our social order reflects the values and comforts of ancient caste order -- to me this raises huge questions, some rather uncomfortable - but best we tackle them now instead of when we have no other option.

 

[Awesome]

I am once again going to ask that we focus on the kind of economy we have - it is, in my opinion, also responsible for the kind of social order we perpetuate - think about degree of separation - think about the insular nature of the social order, that is to say, even though Pakistan is a giant nation, the pool of persons and the likelihood of relationships forming is rather slight - even though we are supposedly a Muslim nation, our social order reflects the values and comforts of ancient caste order -- to me this raises huge questions, some rather uncomfortable - but best we tackle them now instead of when we have no other option.

I'm reminded of this "How I met your mother" episode where Ted goes to a match maker and goes like I don't need you, there are plenty of fish in the sea. She does all her calculations, subtracting this and that and goes like "No Ted, there are 8 women for you, can you reel in 8 fish from a very large sea?".

There is a massive pool of unmarried girls just desperately looking to tie the knot in Pakistan. The social order is messed up. The SOP is to go through your parents. Now if you're not blessed with the looks and you're not allowed to go out and get in a relationship, that pretty much leaves you stranded.

Cousin marriages help out here too. The father of the bride feels a big burden lifted from his shoulders if he has already taken care of his duty by settling the issue of her marriage since her childhood.

 

[Meengla]

Its worse if you're a minority, minorities have to stick together, literally. They have a smaller gene pool to fish from.

How true.
I belong to the 'Cheepa' (or Chipa) community of Karachi--they are considered 'Mohajirs' and usually don't have 'accents' when speak Urdu; You will see their ambulances doing rescue work along with the Edhi ones. Marriage for us was always 'merry a Cheepa'. And so there are hundreds, if not thousands of us (not me personally), who married only Cheepa. It was frowned up to marry others. Not sure it was because of domestic violence--Cheepas are generally educated and industrious people. May be, after migration from India to Pakistan during the Partition, there was some kind of 'community' bonding needed. Anyway, I will not exaggerate when I say this: I have 62+ FIRST COUSINS spread over India and Pakistan. I would say about a third of them, at least, married, amongst themselves or no farther than second cousins. How sad. But it is changing fast now because youngsters have more freedoms to mingle.

May be domestic violence plays a part. But not perhaps much in urban areas. I think mostly people are finding short cuts in match-making and also protective of their assets.

Oh, how I much I would love for a true dictator like Stalin to come and clean up the Madrassahs, ban cousin marriages, and even force re-settlement of population in some ways to create new cities in empty areas. We had wishy-washy Islamists like Zia or wishy-washy liberals like Musharraf.

PS. Cheepas are related to the Marwaris in India; a lot from Rajasthan.

 

[Awesome]

How true.
I belong to the 'Cheepa' (or Chipa) community of Karachi--they are considered 'Mohajirs' and usually don't have 'accents' when speak Urdu; You will see their ambulances doing rescue work along with the Edhi ones. Marriage for us was always 'merry a Cheepa'. And so there are hundreds, if not thousands of us (not me personally), who married only Cheepa. It was frowned up to marry others. Not sure it was because of domestic violence--Cheepas are generally educated and industrious people. May be, after migration from India to Pakistan during the Partition, there was some kind of 'community' bonding needed. Anyway, I will not exaggerate when I say this: I have 62+ FIRST COUSINS spread over India and Pakistan. I would say about a third of them, at least, married, amongst themselves or no farther than second cousins. How sad. But it is changing fast now because youngsters have more freedoms to mingle.

May be domestic violence plays a part. But not perhaps much in urban areas. I think mostly people are finding short cuts in match-making and also protective of their assets.

Oh, how I much I would love for a true dictator like Stalin to come and clean up the Madrassahs, ban cousin marriages, and even force re-settlement of population in some ways to create new cities in empty areas. We had wishy-washy Islamists like Zia or wishy-washy liberals like Musharraf.

PS. Cheepas are related to the Marwaris in India; a lot from Rajasthan.

Banning is not the way, it has to be accepted by the people. Even most states in the US allow first cousin marriages, but in most of their societies the practice is not common.

There are many factors.

Community bonding, perception of having superior genetics, keeping the wealth within the family, ease of match making for the parents, perception that everyone will get along better.

 

[muse]

There is a massive pool of unmarried girls just desperately looking to tie the knot in Pakistan. The social order is messed up. The SOP is to go through your parents. Now if you're not blessed with the looks and you're not allowed to go out and get in a relationship, that pretty much leaves you stranded

.


The other thing is that you do not have a job, do not have your own money and are dependent -- as opposed to INDEPENDENT -- So really, it's tied into the the kind of economy we have -- people will say that it's about the kind of society we have - but really, it the material aspect of this issue which is at it's heart -- and note that this is the root of the entire set of social problems we experience, whether it's population pressure, extremist ideas, corruption in society - it's all related to a economy which fails at the one thing it must do, provide hope, regardless of any other consideration such as the usual, caste, creed, confession.

Now if we have realized that the economy is the key, and that the continuation of social ills reflect ancient patterns of organization and survival strategies and that the kind of economy we have created does not service all, does not provide the equality of opportunity for all and instead forces us to think of our slice of the pie instead of creating the pie for ourselves -- then it seems to me, that our course should be clear - make the structural changes in the way the economy is organized to allow Pakistanis to make it home instead of seeking immigration and making it the countries they immigrate to - look to where Pakistanis immigrate to -- and ask, why??

 

[Awesome]

The other thing is that you do not have a job, do not have your own money and are dependent -- as opposed to INDEPENDENT -- So really, it's tied into the the kind of economy we have -- people will say that it's about the kind of society we have - but really, it the material aspect of this issue which is at it's heart -- and note that this is the root of the entire set of social problems we experience, whether it's population pressure, extremist ideas, corruption in society - it's all related to a economy which fails at the one thing it must do, provide hope, regardless of any other consideration such as the usual, caste, creed, confession.

Now if we have realized that the economy is the key, and that the continuation of social ills reflect ancient patterns of organization and survival strategies and that the kind of economy we have created does not service all, does not provide the equality of opportunity for all and instead forces us to think of our slice of the pie instead of creating the pie for ourselves -- then it seems to me, that our course should be clear - make the structural changes in the way the economy is organized to allow Pakistanis to make it home instead of seeking immigration and making it the countries they immigrate to - look to where Pakistanis immigrate to -- and ask, why??

Ancient? So many other factors that are still alive today. But yes fundamentally it all boils down to the money that is involved in marrying off two people.

I don't know how to translate watta-satta shaadi into English but this archaic practice is still going on and is probably where all the cousin marriages take place. The idea is, "If you hurt my sister, I will hurt your sister" . Concept is that both sisters won't get hurt, but what happens is that because one couple is doing bad the other one automatically follows suit.

The other concept is to save on marriage expenses. On the rukhsati of one couple the other one celebrates their walima... So money comes into play too... Since its all in the family all the costs are split easily.

The other cousin marriage motivation is Dowry. Since Dowry culture is alive and thriving in Pakistan then how do you easily part away with your cash and give it to a previously unknown family?

So you need to beat Dowry, beat Watta-Satta, beat community bonding, beat childhood rishtay, beat perception of race-based superiority.

Lets just say the whole concept of marriage in Pakistan needs a revamp not just in breeding.

 

[Cheetah786]

The defensive positions some have taken is itself rather revealing ---- Look we have a lot of problems, maybe we can do without such a serious problem for society - a problem we are ill equipped to handle

sir muse i am not defending the actions of others i am simply saying the argument that if u don't marry into family you will not get a disease thats where i have a problem with and i think its simply not true.

“This is a common occurrence in cousin marriages. Congenital diseases often crop up in these cases and all these children have malformed spinal chords and locked legs. It is a congenital bone disorder and we can’t cure it. All we can do is to provide them with medicines and we have done that,”

Osteogenesis imperfecta (OI) is a congenital disease, meaning it is present at birth. It is frequently caused by defect in the gene that produces type 1 collagen, an important building block of bone. There are many different defects that can affect this gene. The severity of OI depends on the specific gene defect.

OI is an autosomal dominant disease. That means if you have one copy of the gene, you will have the disease. Most cases of OI are inherited from a parent, although some cases are the result of new genetic mutations.
A person with OI has a 50% chance of passing on the gene and the disease to their children.

Prevention
Genetic counseling is recommended for couples considering pregnancy if there is a personal or family history of this condition.

Osteogenesis imperfecta: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

 

[khanz]

There is no way you can tell apart a child whose parents are cousins from a child whose parents are not cousins. Go to a school in Lahore and visit the classes, and tell me if you can tell them apart.

My classmate from college here has parents who are 1st cousins. Today he is a successful doctor here in the U.S. and made almost perfect scores on his medical licensing exam. He is more intelligent than the Americans here and everyone in his hospital gets along with him.

So please be a little open-minded and dont go crazy over this issue. Cousin marriages have been going on for thousands of years in this world. My parents are not cousins, but I dont look down on anyone whose parents are cousins, or who would want to get married to their cousin. A cousin is not your sister or brother.

yes i know but still why marry your 1st cousin if you have a choice to marry outside your family why limit your family when you have the opportunity to extend it ? I am not looking down on them i think cousin marriage is ok to but to a certain limit cousin marriage it's ok if it's just once in a while or in just one generation .I am talking about proper inbreeding not just a one off cousin couple people are going overboard and getting multiple people in the same family married to their first cousins and also doing it generation after generation with even double first cousins marrying each other which is quite common in pakistan it's become too much coming to the point the nation is starting to become inbred.I think that should stop or atleast people should be educated about the risks.

 

[muse]

Lets just say the whole concept of marriage in Pakistan needs a revamp not just in breeding.

I know you will get this -- Your entire post points to the material aspects of our experience -- and if you buy into this, then of course the kind of economy we are, is what we should look at for more insights into this -- The whole marriage thing is played out, that is to say the frame within which it is being experienced, is the economy. Please do also check out the "Agenda for Reform" thread on the Economy board.

See, we are pointing at at problem, but can it be better understood as a symptom? We have argued that the mechanism of change in society, is the re-ordering of the priority of values -- (recall there was once such a thing as a Hindu rate of growth, recall that once Pakistan was a free society- what changed? and what was the framework within which these changes occurred?)


If social change means the reordering of the priority of values - what induces such a reordering? What is the role of incentives in such?