In underwater battle, India 'annihilates' American n-submarine

[The Huskar]

3. This seems to be a positive news for a. New Kilo orders from Russia directly OR b. A chance for the 10-12 Kilo subs offer by Pipavav presented by Anil Ambani for manufacturing in India and upgradation plan for existing fleet

Exactly.The guys at Defence Forum India were making the same point.Instead of buying 6 super expensive subs,upgraded kilos(possibly even Lada class) can be bought.We would get about 15-18 kilos at the sanctioned price of P75I.

 

[egodoc222]

does their subs have DSI tech to dive deeper than remaining subs ??

No chance...dsi requires alien technology...only one super duper country on earth possesses it...!

 

[Mrc]

and then they woke up and realised it was just an excercise.......

oh wait.....sory they are still dreaming......

(could not resist, please dont report)

 

[Mamsalaphala]

Exactly.The guys at Defence Forum India were making the same point.Instead of buying 6 super expensive subs,upgraded kilos(possibly even Lada class) can be bought.We would get about 15-18 kilos at the sanctioned price of P75I.

Its a VERY UNCOMFORTABLE Submarine.

Its not suited for this century. People need spacious and roomy submarine. That is why Kilo will not do.

Its a good weapon for war, but a poor weapon for patrol and moral and times when we are NOT at war, which is 99.999% of the time.

 

[Kinetic]

Don't believe this US SSN are the most quiet in the world. they are roaming around the world oceans for more than half a century. how its possible!!! @Abingdonboy ??

 

[Mamsalaphala]

Don't believe this US SSN are the most quiet in the world. they are roaming around the world oceans for more than half a century. how its possible!!! @Abingdonboy ??

LOL...who said US Subs are quietest in the world ? ...... they are the Quietest NUCLEAR subs in the world.

 

[The Huskar]

Its a VERY UNCOMFORTABLE Submarine.

Its not suited for this century. People need spacious and roomy submarine. That is why Kilo will not do.

Its a good weapon for war, but a poor weapon for patrol and moral and times when we are NOT at war, which is 99.999% of the time.

Precisely the reason I mentioned Lada class or their export version Amur 1650.At 8.2 billion dollar we can get more than 12 of these even after counting 33% extra per sub for TOT.What IN needs to understand is that volume is its own quality.IN is offering almost $1.4 billion per sub.In comparison France got Barracuda class for €1.3 billion and Britain got Astute for £1.2 billion.At the price IN is offering per sub,5 kilo subs could be bought.Lets forget kilo for a sec,at 8.2 bill we can get 16 more Scorpenes at 500 mill per piece.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Don't believe this US SSN are the most quiet in the world. they are roaming around the world oceans for more than half a century. how its possible!!! @Abingdonboy ??

A combination of favourable ROEs, good tactics and that conventional SSKs are tradtionally quieter than SSNs.

 

[MilSpec]

just a training exercise, same as any other training. No need to rejoice over a exercise result that was mean't to happen. The objectives of these results are to test vulnerability of assets. The US Nuke sub getting detected in exercise will ensure it presents no such circumstance in combat, that is the Idea of exercises to test the units in real world threat scenario's which cannot be effectively proven in simulation models.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Precisely the reason I mentioned Lada class or their export version Amur 1650.At 8.2 billion dollar we can get more than 12 of these even after counting 33% extra per sub for TOT.What IN needs to understand is that volume is its own quality.IN is offering almost $1.4 billion per sub.In comparison France got Barracuda class for €1.3 billion and Britain got Astute for £1.2 billion.At the price IN is offering per sub,5 kilo subs could be bought.Lets forget kilo for a sec,at 8.2 bill we can get 16 more Scorpenes at 500 mill per piece.

Exactly.The guys at Defence Forum India were making the same point.Instead of buying 6 super expensive subs,upgraded kilos(possibly even Lada class) can be bought.We would get about 15-18 kilos at the sanctioned price of P75I.

An increible overreaction to a single exercise just like Cope India 2004/5. Would these same members suggest that the IAF should have invested in porcuring more MiG-21 Bisons after a combination of circumstances meant that the MiG-21 Bisons were scoring kills on the USAF's F-15s? I guess the MKI and Rafale purchases are pointless as you could get 1000s of MiG-21s for the same price.

The Kilos are old tech and whilst okay for now, 5-10 years in the future they will be woefully outclassed even agaisnt PLA(N) SSNs. Again, we can't simply think we know better than the professionals whos job it is to come up with such plans simply because we can do a expensive:cheap ratio calculation.

+ SSKs are good when they are close to your shores but simply inadequate for long range patrols, keeping up with your CBG and force projection.

++ I don't see the P-75(I) running its course- more Scorpenes will be procured and perhaps a deal with Russia for some more upgraded Kilos whilst the IN gets to work on their indigenious SSNs.

 

[pakdefender]

There is no match for india and indian when it comes to generating gas , they can annihilate anyone when it comes to that

 

[The Huskar]

There is no match for india and indian when it comes to generating gas , they can annihilate anyone when it comes to that

Aren't you people claiming in another thread that JF-17 can take on an SU-30MKI based on simply RCS data.Seems like Pakistanis fart more pungent than even Indians.

An increible overreaction to a single exercise just like Cope India 2004/5. Would these same members suggest that the IAF should have invested in porcuring more MiG-21 Bisons after a combination of circumstances meant that the MiG-21 Bisons were scoring kills on the USAF's F-15s? I guess the MKI and Rafale purchases are pointless as you could get 1000s of MiG-21s for the same price.

The Kilos are old tech and whilst okay for now, 5-10 years in the future they will be woefully outclassed even agaisnt PLA(N) SSNs. Again, we can't simply think we know better than the professionals whos job it is to come up with such plans simply because we can do a expensive:cheap ratio calculation.

+ SSKs are good when they are close to your shores but simply inadequate for long range patrols, keeping up with your CBG and force projection.

++ I don't see the P-75(I) running its course- more Scorpenes will be procured and perhaps a deal with Russia for some more upgraded Kilos whilst the IN gets to work on their indigenious SSNs.

I did mention the case of going for Amur class in a govt to govt deal with Russia.It brings quantity and reliability as they are based on already proven tech.Otherwise order more Scorpenes for 500 mill a pop price tag and set up a second private line somewhere.That P75I is gonna turn out to be the MMRCA for IN.
Regarding the range deficiency of SSK,they are pretty much used for marine patrolling,so that should not be the real issue.If we do end up fighting somewhere away from our bases,I hope it will be after we acquire a naval base near the war theater.But that's just fantasy talk.

 

[Mike_Brando]

No but you're missing a very important point here. The US Navy has ZERO diesel electrics. Technically this shows that their entire sub doctrine has a vulnerability (probably not from India but from others). Any tech they want to deploy to counter it is effective now challenged.

It also shows that our adversaries with noisier subs like te Chinese may not get the traction they imagined they could get with their nuclear subc which will be inevitably deployed for range reasons.

All in all, GREAT JOB

Well truth to be told,the USN doesn't need any diesel electric conventional sub simply because it doesn't suit their purpose.The main function of the USN SSNs is to escort the CBGs and search and destroy any incoming sub surface threat.Now,we all know that a conventional sub can't remain underwater for more than a couple of days while a nuclear powered SSN can remain underwater for more than a month,hence the chance of getting detected while surfacing becomes zero in this case.Plus the diving depth of the nuke powered SSN specially the Los Angeles class(the workhorse of the USN SSN fleet) is much more(around 290 m) than that of any contemporary conventional sub.so the chance of getting detected by sonar in this case is quite low compare to any conventional ones.These are some of the factors why the USN doesn't need any conventional sub in their inventory.

 

[waz]

just like gazi got detected on sonar and patched at vizag cost...

No it didn't and your own Navy freely admitted the hallmarks of an accident. His reply has nothing to do with India and yet you sunk your post so low, even mocking dead sailors. Pathetic.

Here are the details from firstly Commodore KS Subra Manian;

At that time, I put down the cause of the GHAZI’s sinking as a case of internal explosion due to her own mines blowing up or due to hydrogen. Looking back now after the lapse of so many years, it seems to me that the cause of her blowing up was most probably a hydrogen explosion. I base this conclusion on the fact that the hull had blown outwards near the mid section of the submarine and not right forward near the torpedo tubes.

Here is the commentary from Commander Shafi Sayad;

“In my view, the likely cause of the explosion which led to the sinking of the GHAZI appears to be hydrogen accumulation, which takes place during normal charging and discharging of submarine batteries. A submarine of the displacement of GHAZI would have something like 350 tonnes of battery.

“I rule out the explosion being caused by an external mine because the intensity of the explosion was such that the entire length of the submarine was affected internally. There was no external damage to the submarine casing or the conning tower.


From Commander Dhingra, the deep diver from NISTAR

“I have no doubt that the hull was blown outwards. I think it was due to an explosion from within the submarine. But I cannot say for sure whether it is on account of hydrogen from the batteries or from some other kind of explosion inside the compartments.”


Commodore KP Mathew

“If GHAZI had been damaged from an external explosion, the damage would have been all internal and not of the kind which I saw, of the area totally split and all ripped apart. This can only happen from an explosion taking place next to the damaged portions. This leads to the conclusion that it could only have been an internal explosion that caused the damage to the GHAZI the way it did”.




Read more at:
1971 War: The Sinking of the Ghazi » Indian Defence Review | Page 2

 

[Mike_Brando]

LOL...who said US Subs are quietest in the world ? ...... they are the Quietest NUCLEAR subs in the world.

Yup,the quietest submarine at present in the world is the Gotland class of Sweden.
Gotland-class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia