In race with Japan, China sweetens bid for Indonesia railway

[cirr]

People shouldn't overlook the fact that, in its bid to win the contract, Japan has sweetened twice its offer.

No matter which country gets the deal, Indonesia will come out the big winner.

 

[ebony&ivory]

Japan can't even build its stadium in time for the 2020 Olympics. Does Japan even have high speed rail?

 

[ahojunk]

When Japan first started its high speed rail about 50 years ago, its speed was around 200 kph.

Currently, Japan's HSR network has expanded to 2,600 km with operating speeds of 240–320 km/h, and
284 km of Mini-shinkansen lines with a maximum speed of 130 km/h.

If I read it correctly, the Japanese HSR's maximum operating speed of 320 km/h was only introduced in in March 2011 for a small section of the Tōhoku Shinkansen. The rest of the network is operating at a slower speed.

From Wikipedia, "Extensive trials using the Fastech 360 test trains have shown that operation at 360 km/h is not currently feasible because of problems of noise pollution (particularly tunnel boom), overhead wire wear, and braking distances. On 30 October 2012, JR East announced that it is pursuing research and development to increase speeds to 360 km/h on the Tohoku Shinkansen by 2020."

In comparison, China already has a few lines that are thousands of km in length that operates at 350 kph.

Recently, China has developed a new HSR traction system that is more efficient and can run at 500 kph.

Looks to me like China has superseded Japan in HSR technology.

 

[hans]

China is a giant country. So it needs faster trains..
Japan is a much smaller country, where 200kmh trains are OK for transportation.
500kmh trains are more likely for testing. Maybe not feasible for normal operation.

technically Japan and China are in similar level.
Yet what China really do better than Japan is the experience of building a huge HSR network in recent years..
Especially in extra cold(Hada HSR Line) and extra hot weather(Hainan HSR line).
While Japan has not build HSR for long time. Also it lacks experience of HSR in extra hot area.

When Japan first started its high speed rail about 50 years ago, its speed was around 200 kph.

Currently, Japan's HSR network has expanded to 2,600 km with operating speeds of 240–320 km/h, and
284 km of Mini-shinkansen lines with a maximum speed of 130 km/h.

If I read it correctly, the Japanese HSR's maximum operating speed of 320 km/h was only introduced in in March 2011 for a small section of the Tōhoku Shinkansen. The rest of the network is operating at a slower speed.

From Wikipedia, "Extensive trials using the Fastech 360 test trains have shown that operation at 360 km/h is not currently feasible because of problems of noise pollution (particularly tunnel boom), overhead wire wear, and braking distances. On 30 October 2012, JR East announced that it is pursuing research and development to increase speeds to 360 km/h on the Tohoku Shinkansen by 2020."

In comparison, China already has a few lines that are thousands of km in length that operates at 350 kph.

Recently, China has developed a new HSR traction system that is more efficient and can run at 500 kph.

Looks to me like China has superseded Japan in HSR technology.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

The wait is almost over...

Ministers to Make High-Speed Train Decision on Monday
A six-minister team chaired by Coordinating Minister for Economic Affairs Darmin Nasution will meet on Monday to decide whether Japan or China will be awarded Indonesia's first high-speed train project.

read more: Ministers to Make High-Speed Train Decision on Monday | Jakarta Globe

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Indonesia Favouring China Over Japan in Railway Bid: Govt Sources

Indonesia is leaning towards China over Japan in an aggressive bidding battle to build the Southeast Asian nation's first high-speed railway, two government sources involved in making the decision said. The two Asian giants have both sent envoys to lobby Indonesian officials over the past two weeks, each sweetening the terms of their bid for the contract worth about $5 billion.

.....

"Indonesia is leaning towards China because their proposal is less financially burdensome on the Indonesian government and because the issue of safety has been adequately addressed," a government source told Reuters.

A second government source said Indonesia wanted to strike a balance between the two powers in handing out high-profile infrastructure projects. Japan already holds contracts to build Jakarta's mass rapid transit system and the biggest coal-fired power plant in the region.

read more: CORRECTED-Indonesia favouring China over Japan in railway bid - govt sources| Reuters

 

[70U63]

Off topic, why building coal-fired instead of gas power plant?
(as we required to move to cleaner power source)

A second government source said Indonesia wanted to strike a balance between the two powers in handing out high-profile infrastructure projects. Japan already holds contracts to build Jakarta's mass rapid transit system and the biggest coal-fired power plant in the region.

read more: CORRECTED-Indonesia favouring China over Japan in railway bid - govt sources| Reuters

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Off topic, why building coal-fired instead of gas power plant?
(as we required to move to cleaner power source)

Coal power plant is the most cost-effective solution for Indonesia to fulfil our energy demand since we produce huge amount of coal every year. Moreover with the slump of the coal price today, we better absorb this energy source ourselves. The plant is designed to use Japan Ultra Super Critical technology, which is supposed to minimize its environmental impact. Sounds cool right

 

[Beidou2020]

Coal power plant is the most cost-effective solution for Indonesia to fulfil our energy demand since we produce huge amount of coal every year. Moreover with the slump of the coal price today, we better absorb this energy source ourselves. The plant is designed to use Japan Ultra Super Critical technology, which is supposed to minimize its environmental impact. Sounds cool right

That's Japanese propaganda for 'our product is very expensive so we have to give it fancy words to con everyone'.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

That's Japanese propaganda for 'our product is very expensive so we have to give it fancy words to con everyone'.

China is not far left behind in using fancy word gimmick, like this one:
Yuhuan 1,000MW Ultra-Supercritical Pressure Boilers, China
Yuhuan 1,000MW Ultra-Supercritical Pressure Boilers - Power Technology

The introduction of ultra-supercritical technology has been driven over recent years in countries such as Denmark, Germany and Japan, in order to achieve improved plant efficiencies and reduce fuel costs.

IGCC, supercritical - World Coal Association

 

[Beidou2020]

China is not far left behind in using fancy word gimmick, like this one:
Yuhuan 1,000MW Ultra-Supercritical Pressure Boilers, China
Yuhuan 1,000MW Ultra-Supercritical Pressure Boilers - Power Technology

Even with fancy words, China offers affordable technology with similar technology. Japanese technology is expensive because it has the Japanese brand name on it.

That's why people choose China when it competes for contracts.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Even with fancy words, China offers affordable technology with similar technology. Japanese technology is expensive because it has the Japanese brand name on it. That's why people choose China when it competes for contracts.

Yeah sure, but this 2x1000MW project is a done deal. The coal power project is the largest in the ASEAN region and was planned to be ready by the end of 2018.

ASEAN’s Largest Power Plant to be Constructed in Central Java

 

[TaiShang]

Indonesia 'leaning towards China over Japan' to build nation’s first high-speed railway, according to SCMP.

 

[Indos]

Off topic, why building coal-fired instead of gas power plant?
(as we required to move to cleaner power source)

there are gas power plan of course, but the infrastructure to bring the material (gas) into the power plan is more expensive than a coal one, and we have many coal also. Talking about our future coal power plan (in collaboration with Japan), it will not only the biggest in SEA but also the most modern and clean

 

[Nan Yang]

Coal power plant is the most cost-effective solution for Indonesia to fulfil our energy demand since we produce huge amount of coal every year. Moreover with the slump of the coal price today, we better absorb this energy source ourselves. The plant is designed to use Japan Ultra Super Critical technology, which is supposed to minimize its environmental impact. Sounds cool right

Watch this video from about 4:30. It show China's new coal power plant is so advance its a model for the world. It captures the CO2 and sells it to coca cola to make sodas.
Pure Science Specials - Green China Rising - YouTube