In race with Japan, China sweetens bid for Indonesia railway

[pr1v4t33r]

I would say it is not bad for Japan to win a bid in the high speed trains.. Then the world will see how Japanese will charge on the maintenance... The first and only HSR built by Japanese in Taiwan is going to bankrupt because of too high maintenance cost... And China can get rest of all the bid in the world...

Can u provide list of countries that already use China HSR till today? how long they already operate? Do you have data about service/maintenace cost charged by China compare to Japan?

What planners failed to take into account was an abrupt slowdown in the Taiwan economy, meaning the 280,000 daily passengers projected in reports in the 1980s and early 1990s have now shrunk to a mere 87,000.

Taiwan High-Speed Rail: From pride to embarrassment - The China Post

We are offering you a $5.5 billion (170% of the whole project cost if the total cost figure is $3.3 billion) with a 50 year tenure at 2%. Not only do we offer more money, you get $2.2 billion left to invest in other projects. Come on and you tell me Japan is a better deal? Give me a break. One thing I hate the most is the cheerleader.

This is amiss, $3.3B is proposal from Japan, China quote $5.5B for this project, meaning $2.2B higher than what Japan propose. This will impact highly on passanger pricing and passanger volume, $2.2B is big money, and this will become a big burden for the passanger.

Japan Sweetens Jakarta-Bandung Shinkansen Railway Offer - The Jakarta Globe

On top of that, Japan only quote 0.1% interest paid in 40 years time, while China ask for 2% interest paid in 50 years time. From current proposals, Japan is the clear winner for me. Unless, China make better proposal.

 

[xunzi]

Taiwan High-Speed Rail: From pride to embarrassment - The China Post




This is amiss, $3.3B is proposal from Japan, China quote $5.5B for this project, meaning $2.2B higher than what Japan propose. This will impact highly on passanger pricing and passanger volume, $2.2B is big money, and this will become a big burden for the passanger.

Japan Sweetens Jakarta-Bandung Shinkansen Railway Offer - The Jakarta Globe

On top of that, Japan only quote 0.1% interest paid in 40 years time, while China ask for 2% interest paid in 50 years time. From current proposals, Japan is the clear winner for me. Unless, China make better proposal.

Too many conflicting reports. I have did some search. Apparently the $4.4 billion is the initial cost Japan estimated and we estimated it at $4 billion. Then suddenly now Japan said it cost $3.3 billion and we jumped to $5.4 billion cost? Totally unreasonable, illogical, and fishy. For one, Japan always build EVERYTHING more expensive than we do so how did they build cheaper than we can? It makes no sense at all. This is not to mention, we guarantee the project to be finish and run by 2018 compare to Japan 2021. As you know, the faster you get it to run and operate, the more revenue and profit can be made to prepare for annual repayment. Not only that, we promised a 40,000 job for Indonesia workers annually compare to 50% of business generates for this project that Japan offered. 2% at 50 years deal is better than 0.1% at 40 years deal because you earn from the profit generate in 3 years faster.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Too many conflicting reports. I have did some search. Apparently the $4.4 billion is the initial cost Japan estimated and we estimated it at $4 billion. Then suddenly now Japan said it cost $3.3 billion and we jumped to $5.4 billion cost? Totally unreasonable, illogical, and fishy. For one, Japan always build EVERYTHING more expensive than we do so how did they build cheaper than we can? It makes no sense at all. This is not to mention, we guarantee the project to be finish and run by 2018 compare to Japan 2021. As you know, the faster you get it to run and operate, the more revenue and profit can be made to prepare for annual repayment. Not only that, we promised a 40,000 job for Indonesia workers annually compare to 50% of business generates for this project that Japan offered. 2% at 50 years deal is better than 0.1% at 40 years deal because you earn from the profit generate in 3 years faster.

From my understanding, Indonesian government ask Japan and China to make feasibility study for Jakarta-Bandung HSR project, and make proposal based on their own feasibility study. So both Japan and China have plenty of room to define the project scope based on their study, and this will make wide difference in cost.

Why China propose much higher cost? i don't know, maybe they choose to take longer route? or adding more stations? ect, many factors can bloat the project cost. In the end, Indonesian government will have to choose the most efficient and cost effective proposal out of the two.

May the best proposal win.

 

[AndrewJin]

This is how Indians make money:

Suburban Railways have Lost Rs 4,150cr in last 5 years | Railway News

The more important problem is not their fiscal condition but their safety record (monthly deadly railway accidents) and outdated technology. They inherited one of the most advanced railway systems at that time from British, and now they ruin it.

 

[dy1022]

Japan wins = No HSR in Indo before 2021-2025, High service/maintenace cost, may delay in building prograss like the Metro one in Capital city, no Exp for building HSR in tropical zone.




This isn't a big deal for us and more than 60-70% of World's HSR network will be built in China.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Japan wins = No HSR in Indo before 2021-2025, High service/maintenace cost, may delay in building prograss like the Metro one in Capital city, no Exp for building HSR in tropical zone. This isn't a big deal for us and more than 60-70% of World's HSR network will be built in China.

If we choose Japan, the 1st test run itself will be ready in 2019, but only fully operational in 2021. I myself quite doubful that HSR project can be completed in 3 years time. Land acquisition process in Indonesia can take quite some time to complete.

 

[Echo_419]

JAKARTA: China has sweetened its bid in a race with Japan to win the construction contract for a high-speed railway connecting Jakarta to the city of Bandung, Indonesia said on Tuesday.

President Joko Widodo told reporters on Tuesday the government had hired private consultants to consider the rival proposals for Indonesia's first bullet-train connection and would announce the winner at the end of the month.

The Jakarta Post reported that Japan, which began talks several years ago on building the 150-km line, had estimated the cost at at least $4.4 billion.

Oura Daisuke, a representative with Japan International Cooperation Agency in Indonesia, told Reuters that Japan had offered a 40-year loan at a 0.1 percent interest rate and with a 10-year grace period. He declined to reveal the loan amount.

China has now improved its initial bid, offering a $5.5 billion loan with a 50-year tenure, a 2 percent interest rate and a grace period, Indonesian Development Planning Minister Andrinof Chaniago told reporters on Tuesday after meeting China's Minister of the National Development and Reform Commission, Xu Shaoshi.

China had initially proposed a $4 billion loan with a lending period of 25 years and an annual interest rate of 2 percent, the Jakarta Globe reported.

"There are a lot of changes making (the new proposal) better," Chaniago said.

Xu met Widodo on Monday and China Railway Corporation is due to hold a high-speed train exhibition in Jakarta on Thursday.

"Our proposal is better," Xu said in a press conference after meeting Widodo. "We promise we can deliver this project in three years starting with groundbreaking in August ... and it will be completed in 2018."

Mark Giblett, Group Head of Asia Project Finance for Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corp, said several high-speed rail projects would be coming up in the years ahead, including one connecting Kuala Lumpur and Singapore.

"As such, it is likely that Japanese and Chinese companies will be bidding quite aggressively on the early projects so that they can secure a 'first mover' advantage in the market," he told Reuters by email.

Read more at:
In race with Japan, China sweetens bid for Indonesia railway - The Economic Times

Looks like in the end Indonesia will win

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Looks like in the end Indonesia will win

I hope so.. but we have to hold any celebration until this project completed.

 

[TaiShang]

China offers more competitive solution for Jakarta-Bandung Railway

China offered a more competitive solution for Indonesia's first high-speed railway linking Jakarta and Bandung, diplomatic sources said here Wednesday.

The offer was made by Xu Shaoshi, head of China's National Development and Reform Commission, who came as special envoy of Chinese President Xi Jinping.

During his three-day visit, which started last Sunday, Xu met with Indonesian President Joko Widodo.

According to a press release of the Chinese Embassy in Indonesia, Xu told the Indonesian president that China is willing to share experiences with Indonesia through high-speed railway construction to "promote high-speed railway development in Indonesia."

http://bit.ly/1f70NKT

 

[pr1v4t33r]

China offers more competitive solution for Jakarta-Bandung Railway

Faster construction time indeed a point plus in China's proposal, and this will become a tough battle for Japan. For Indonesia, as long as we take the best offer, we win.

 

[prima99]

We are offering you a $5.5 billion (170% of the whole project cost if the total cost figure is $3.3 billion) with a 50 year tenure at 2%. Not only do we offer more money, you get $2.2 billion left to invest in other projects. Come on and you tell me Japan is a better deal? Give me a break. One thing I hate the most is the cheerleader.

i'm not some cheerleader. don't confuse me with opruh. if stating obvious things that already happened makes me some cheerleader, then there's something wrong with your head.

also regarding the project, as quoted from privateer.

On top of that, Japan only quote 0.1% interest paid in 40 years time, while China ask for 2% interest paid in 50 years time. From current proposals, Japan is the clear winner for me. Unless, China make better proposal.

nuff said.

if Japan wants to make high maintenance cost, that goes with the quality of their work. as we Indonesians says, "YOU SELL IT, WE BUY IT". besides Japan has been our number one partner for decades. they're not here to give some crap works.

 

[AndrewJin]

i'm not some cheerleader. don't confuse me with opruh. if stating obvious things that already happened makes me some cheerleader, then there's something wrong with your head.

also regarding the project, as quoted from privateer.



nuff said.

if Japan wants to make high maintenance cost, that goes with the quality of their work. as we Indonesians says, "YOU SELL IT, WE BUY IT". besides Japan has been our number one partner for decades. they're not here to give some crap works.

I think it's best to review the whole fraud in Taiwan HSR.
I kinda hope Japan wins and gives us a model how they ruin the best transportation corridor.

 

[prima99]

I think it's best to review the whole fraud in Taiwan HSR.
I kinda hope Japan wins and gives us a model how they ruin the best transportation corridor.

Taiwan is Taiwan. Indonesia is Indonesia. you cannot say the same things will happen to Indonesia because the project's not even started yet.

dunno bout taiwan HSR. their problem is not of our concern. though looking at this article.

Taiwan High Speed Rail bankruptcy is imminent: transportation minister - The China Post

and one of the comments

Maybe I'm just a cheapskate, but when faced with the NT$1630 fare from Taipei to Kaohsiung, I usually just take the bus for NT$200, even though it means a 4- to 5-hour trip instead of an hour and a half.

it's more like people doesn't care enough about their shinkansen.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Maybe I'm just a cheapskate, but when faced with the NT$1630 fare from Taipei to Kaohsiung, I usually just take the bus for NT$200, even though it means a 4- to 5-hour trip instead of an hour and a half.

Ticket pricing indeed quite steep there. Managing Director Japan Bank, said ticket price for Jakarta-Bandung HSR only around NT$460, with 44.000 target passanger/day. Much more affordable than Taiwan HSR.
Temui Mendag, Jepang Siap Investasi Kereta Cepat Jakarta-Bandung

 

[xunzi]

i'm not some cheerleader. don't confuse me with opruh. if stating obvious things that already happened makes me some cheerleader, then there's something wrong with your head.

also regarding the project, as quoted from privateer.



nuff said.

if Japan wants to make high maintenance cost, that goes with the quality of their work. as we Indonesians says, "YOU SELL IT, WE BUY IT". besides Japan has been our number one partner for decades. they're not here to give some crap works.

I have said it before and don't make me repeat myself. 2% on 50 years term with 2018 operational run vs 0.1% on 40 years term with 2012 operational run. If you do the math, those 1.9% interest rate difference will likely be covered by the 3 years in operation profit. Everything else you said are junk.

The one thing I hate the most is any country that use us to bid in an attempt for our rival to sweeten the deal and they choose that rival. If this is how you do business, don't expect us to join any future infrastructure bidding. In fact, I would love to see how the Japanese operate and maintain a HSR network in a foreign country. If Taiwan HSR is any indication, it is a red flag but it's your money, your country, so it is up to you. Again, don't use us! Understand?