In China, 'Xi Forever' May Not Be Forever, After All

[Dungeness]

Then you're a troll. My uncle lived in China when Cultural Revolution was happened. He knew what happened there and told me about it. The way you talking is the same as Jiang Qing's minions in the Cultural Revolution. So either you glorified the Gang of Four, you are a troll, or you just an ignorant person.

If you look at both China and India, what difference do you see? The only thing difference I saw was China went through "3 revolutions" that India did not, Land Reform, Social Reform and Cultural Revolution. Without these 3 painful and brutal revolutions, China would have been just like India.

Mao completed all these 3 revolutions and transformed China into a modern nation that India is still not. Some of my family members also suffered during CR, but individual suffering is insignificant in the era of revolution. Xi himself was "sacrificed" during CR, but he actually gained a great deal of knowledge of rural China in his days in a poor village that he would never have got otherwise.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Even not Deng, anyone who in his place can't avoid the corruption. Just Like Mao, he maybe make a big mistake, but he lead Chinese to be independent and make the industrial base. Deng too, at least he lead the country to be richer. Jiang too, they all are competent, don't be too hard on leaders.

Deng had dismantled our military industrial complex, and Jiang with his engineer background was the person who re-established our military industrial complex.

Deng had destroyed our first jetliner Y-10, and later his cabals found a scapegoat to blame.

When Jiang first came to power, his first priority was to secure the production line of our nuclear submarine, which was also at risk of getting dismantled by Deng.

http://wap.chinaiiss.com/simple/view/4093361/all

Thanked to President Jiang, the production line of our nuclear submarines was secured, and you guys simply have been brainwashed by FLG's 24/7 nonstop smear campaign against President Jiang.

 

[Mista]

The Dengist faction has deep tie with Singapore, and probably has conducted a lot of money laundering activities.

Probably? So you're pulling out conspiracy theories out of ur arse.

BTW, the days of Singapore are numbered.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...to-malaysia-could-help-najib-razak-with-votes

Wow I'm so afraid that building a port in Malacca will bring down Singapore, even though Mahathir already built one right across Singapore decades ago.

I mean, Singapore depends only on our ports right? The whole logistics industry including airports, land transport etc makes up like what? 7% of our GDP?

 

[sweetgrape]

Deng had dismantled our military industrial complex, and Jiang with his engineer background was the person who established our military industrial complex.

Deng had destroyed our first jetliner Y-10, and later his cabals found a scapegoat to blame.

When Jiang first came to power, his first priority was to secure the production line of our nuclear submarine, which was also at risk of getting dismantled by Deng.

http://wap.chinaiiss.com/simple/view/4093361/all

Thanks to President Jiang, the production line of our nuclear submarines was secured, and you guys simply have been brainwashed by FLG's 24/7 nonstop smear campaign against President Jiang.

Sacrifice some to get some, at that time, I don't think Deng did wrong decision, we have encough money to feed the army and military industry? the military industry earn money? whether Y10 can success, it hard to say, China are poor, the market was small, who would buy Y10? as a poor country after the great Cultural Revolution, what we can supply to the world?

Jiang should be praised for many things, but Deng also should not be judge fairly, If Jiang was in Deng place at that time, he can do better than Deng? I don't think so.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

If you look at both China and India, what difference do you see? The only thing difference I saw was China went through "3 revolutions" that India did not, Land Reform, Social Reform and Cultural Revolution. Without these 3 painful and brutal revolutions, China would have been just like India.

Mao completed all these 3 revolutions and transformed China into a modern nation that India is still not. Some of my family members also suffered during CR, but individual suffering is insignificant in the era of revolution. Xi himself was "sacrificed" during CR, but he actually gained a great deal of knowledge of rural China in his days in a poor village that he would never have got otherwise.

And you have to realize that Deng was the only person who totally denied and hated the CR.

If he was truly a wise leader, do you think he would ever come out with a conclusion like that?

He had no gut to attack Chairman Mao by himself, but deliberately unleashed all those anti-Mao pro-West liberals to do his dirty jobs, but this behavior had eventually backfired him. The 1989 color revolution was the result of Deng sponsored anti-Mao liberals not only wanted to attack Mao, but also to bite the hand that fed them. So Deng had no choice but to destroy them.

This is the closer to the true history, and President Xi must already know that.

That's why even his own father was persecuted during the CR, but he doesn't hate Chairman Mao anymore.

Because he knows that Chairman Mao had a reason to do that, and his father and many other people were short-sighted, and they didn't realize that Chairman Mao was right until many decades later.

 

[Dungeness]

Deng had dismantled our military industrial complex, and Jiang with his engineer background was the person who re-established our military industrial complex.

Deng had destroyed our first jetliner Y-10, and later his cabals found a scapegoat to blame.

When Jiang first came to power, his first priority was to secure the production line of our nuclear submarine, which was also at risk of getting dismantled by Deng.

http://wap.chinaiiss.com/simple/view/4093361/all

Thanked to President Jiang, the production line of our nuclear submarines was secured, and you guys simply have been brainwashed by FLG's 24/7 nonstop smear campaign against President Jiang.

It is not fair to blame Deng for temporary measure imposed on China's military industrial complex. With limited means, he had to make a tough decision.

If Modi had made the same decision for India today, I would be very worried as one day India may turn out to be a very strong competitor to China.

 

[sweetgrape]

Probably? So you're pulling out conspiracy theories out of ur arse.



Wow I'm so afraid that building a port in Malacca will bring down Singapore, even though Mahathir already built one right across Singapore decades ago.

I mean, Singapore depends only on our ports right? The whole logistics industry including airports, land transport etc makes up like what? 7% of our GDP?

We just reduce the dependence on Malacca, building a port is one action. Singapore is still Singapore, only few million population, easy to be rich.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Sacrifice some to get some, at that time, I don't think Deng did wrong decision, we have encough money to feed the army and military industry? the military industry earn money? whether Y10 can success, it hard to say, China are poor, the market was small, who would buy Y10? as a poor country after the great Cultural Revolution, what we can supply to the world?

Jiang should be praised for many things, but Deng also should not be judge fairly, If Jiang was in Deng place at that time, he can do better than Deng? I don't think so.

If the decision of dismantling the Y-10 was right, then why they later had to find a scapegoat to blame? Because it was simply a wrong decision implemented by Deng, because he didn't want the gang of four taking any credits.

Of course, the gang of four had done many wrong things, but they had also done many right things like to supervise many important projects of our military industrial complex. The world is closer to grey than just purely black or white, but Deng wanted to demonize them for everything to further advance his political agenda, that's why he sought to destroy their legacy and everything they touched.

And Jiang was backed by the conservative faction of the CPC, and Deng never liked him, he wanted to use Zhu Rongji (the mentor of Wang Qishan) to replace Jiang, but the conservative faction had impeded his plan.

 

[sweetgrape]

It is not fair to blame Deng for temporary measure imposed on China's military industrial complex. With limited means, he had to make a tough decision.

If Modi had made the same decision for India today, I would be very worried as one day India may turn out to be a very strong competitor to China.

Mao and Deng all are great leader of China, must be respected, of course can be criticized for their mistake and be judged fairly.

 

[Dungeness]

And you have to realize that Deng was the only person who totally denied and hated the CR.

If he was truly a wise leader, do you think he would ever come out with a conclusion like that?

He had no gut to attack Chairman Mao by himself, but deliberately unleashed all those anti-Mao pro-West liberals to do his dirty jobs, but this behavior had eventually backfired him. The 1989 color revolution was the result of Deng sponsored anti-Mao liberals not only wanted to attack Mao, but also to bite the hand that fed them. So Deng had no choice but to destroy them.

This is the closer to the true history, and President Xi must already know that.

That's why even his own father was persecuted during the CR, but he doesn't hate Chairman Mao anymore.

Because he knows that Chairman Mao had a reason to do that, and his father and many other people were short-sighted, and they didn't realize that Chairman Mao was right until many decades later.

As I have said, every Chinese leaders has his share of limitation and made his share of mistakes. After all they are all human, and they are in the greatest experiment in the history of mankind. It is more important to see that China is stronger than ever, due to each and every Chinese leaders and generations of Chinese people's sacrifice and contribution. You made the same mistake as Beijingwalker, you guys sliced out a piece of history and asked some "what if" questions.

 

[Mista]

We just reduce the dependence on Malacca, building a port is one action. Singapore is still Singapore, only few million population, easy to be rich.

Yeah. It's so easy. What if your own city try getting independence from the rest of China? Let's see how long it can survive with the constant passive aggression and military threat from your neighbors like we do in the 60s.

Malacca is just a choke point. The one holding control over the Indian ocean is India.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

It is not fair to blame Deng for temporary measure imposed on China's military industrial complex. With limited means, he had to make a tough decision.

If Modi had made the same decision for India today, I would be very worried as one day India may turn out to be a very strong competitor to China.

Jiang took in power in the early 1990s, and during that time, China was not any richer than Deng's era. In fact, it faced even more difficulty because of the sanction by the West, but he still took the military industrial complex as the first priority.

Because Jiang got an engineering background, who understood the technical problems much more than Deng. And he didn't believe that dismantling our military industrial complex would reduce the hostility from the West.

He is so much more knowledgeable than Deng, and his family did not involve into the trillion corruption scandal like the Deng family.

That's why President Xi is now more aligned with President Jiang than that weak puppet Hu Jintao.

 

[yjdlbcj]

Never think that, without Deng Xiaoping, China should now be about the same as North Korea. JIN fat man's first army strategy is already dead. Without the framework of Deng, China is still a backward country.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Never think that, without Deng Xiaoping, China should now be about the same as North Korea. JIN fat man's first army strategy is already dead. Without the framework of Deng, China is still a backward country.

His family stole trillion from China, and no other leader's family has ever done that.

Let's see what is the next thing that President Xi is going to do for his anti-corruption campaign.

 

[Brainsucker]

If you look at both China and India, what difference do you see? The only thing difference I saw was China went through "3 revolutions" that India did not, Land Reform, Social Reform and Cultural Revolution. Without these 3 painful and brutal revolutions, China would have been just like India.

Mao completed all these 3 revolutions and transformed China into a modern nation that India is still not. Some of my family members also suffered during CR, but individual suffering is insignificant in the era of revolution. Xi himself was "sacrificed" during CR, but he actually gained a great deal of knowledge of rural China in his days in a poor village that he would never have got otherwise.

Yes, Cultural Revolution thought you that the previous way was wrong, and you need to change. What else? If you think that Cultural Revolution was the foundation for the modern China, then why you don't need to suffer like Xi in a poor village to gain knowledge like what he did? Shouldn't you preserve what was the best and throw the worst?

Mao Zedong was a great man. He was a great strategist, and a great politician. That's why he could bring the CCP who previously suffer from KMT attack and had only 1 small Yan'an to win the entire China (except Taiwan). But it doesn't mean that he was perfect. Maybe economy was his worst weakness. But Mao wasn't the only great leader from China at that time. You still have Zhou Enlai. When Mao died, nobody sad, but when Zhou Enlai died, a lot of people cried. So for me, Zhou Enlai was a greater leader than Mao. But it doesn't prevent me to admire Mao, just like I admire many Chinese leader from history. Like Liu Bang, Qin Shi Huang, etc.