In boost for 'Make in India', Dassault may manufacture Rafale fighter aircraft in India

[anant_s]

But not with the current price tag.

If manufacturing in some form comes to India, per unit price will come down, but more than that it will bring in some really high end machining and fabrication technology, which will percolate down the line and benefit Indian Aerospace sector and that is where we will get to see offset advantage

Rafale M : See our Navy always shown interest in Marine version of Rafale. Rafale at sea will be a beast specially in our IOR and SCS. A dog fighter, A bomb truck, Stealth fighter, Carrier borne jet and more over the number of shorties can be taken by a French jets are more when compared with Russian ones. We learnt it from our history and very recently in Kargil war. The beast Mig29 is a champ but availability was just 30-55% while silent beauty Mirage 2K took almost double the shorties when required. Whole MMRCA was to buy 100+ new Mirage 2K as MRCA. Later converted into MMRCA due to advancement of Time. One Rafale can carry and do lots of missions of multiple Mirage. This is the thoughts we have on Rafale and the reason to get selected. Trust and Morale boost!!!

Yes Availability factor apart, what Rafale marine version will bring is commonality with IAF and hence further cost effectiveness. I'm trying to find some literature on this unsuccessfully, but hypothetically speaking, if there is going to be an AC to AC battle ever, the likely contenders at high end of spectrum will be J 31. Now we don't have much details of J 31 but in a speculated environment of Rafale M vectored by E2D, the scales could be tilted in favor of IN.

But we should not get carried away. F35 lightening Vertical takeoff landing is a must have requirement for our Navy. It's a sitting duck in air for airforce but for Navy and Island defence fleets it's a Game changer. Naval Sam systems and electronic warfare capabilities at sea are critical when you want to carry out an assault on Naval fleet. Here is where F35 comes into play. Which can blind enemies radars and launch missiles from far way.

F 35 program promises the moon, but given its protracted development history, i'm not sure when these will be available. There is no doubt that these will be offered to India, but how are they going to fit in our budget and tactical scheme of things, i'm not sure.

Besides Rafale, i think two more deals could be signed

Areva's Evolutionary Presuurized (water) Reactor EPR (1650 MWe) for Jaitapur stage 1 (2 units)

Alsthom's Prima 2 locomotive (12000 HP) for Eastern DFCIL. The company's website indicates closure of agreement signing in 2016.

 

[Ind4Ever]

Yes Availability factor apart, what Rafale marine version will bring is commonality with IAF and hence further cost effectiveness. I'm trying to find some literature on this unsuccessfully, but hypothetically speaking, if there is going to be an AC to AC battle ever, the likely contenders at high end of spectrum will be J 31. Now we don't have much details of J 31 but in a speculated environment of Rafale M vectored by E2D, the scales could be tilted in favor of IN.

But you forgot to mention J31 is a 5Th generation fighter and Rafale is 1 gen behind. Since we don't have enough actual capability of stealth as claimed by Chinese Rafale sounds great. But what if they managed to make best J31 stealth fighter? Rafale is stealthy in terms of 4th Gen fighters. Technology one step behind. Future air battle will involve lots of BVR warfare than today's. Stealth means "Getting a lock on the target" before your enemy can spot you. So we should think twice and make a decision on basis of future warfare. IAC 2 is decade away. By 2024 our IAF itself will have shifted it's strategy along side with 5th gen warfare. BECAUSE RADAR TECHNOLOGY IS GROWING FASTER AND GETTING SHARPER EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

Rather we should opt for another Vikrant and try to infuse Rafale M with it. Either by flat deck and EMALS or by Modifying Rafale for Ski Jump.

F 35 program promises the moon, but given its protracted development history, i'm not sure when these will be available. There is no doubt that these will be offered to India, but how are they going to fit in our budget and tactical scheme of things, i'm not sure.

If you compare Rafale and F35 per aircraft fighter then you find its more or less equal and F35 with capabilities as promised will a a very cleaver choice for the Navy and Andaman Tri Command. I look F35 purely as a fighter bomber which defend itself and finishing the tasked missions. Mainly would be to take out Coastal radars and Naval fleet. .

True One Marine Corps F-35B costs an unbelievable $251 million. A lone US Navy F-35C costs a mind-boggling$337 million. But the capabilities it brings is massive. Sure we can afford these fighter. But with too many projects and needs we should keep cost in mind too.

 

[dadeechi]

Nothing of that happening. India will buy just 36 planes directly from France due to our stupidity of floating global tender. End of Rafale saga.

We need to read this news along with the below RFP for 90 fighter planes. 36 Off the shelf and 90+ under MII. MMRCA RFP was cancelled as it mandated HAL as the lead integrator. The new contract would be on lines of the original RFP with Reliance replacing HAL. Also, this new contract would mean France is no longer required to share critical technology.

Now the question is not if India would procure 126+ RAFALEs or not but how does India obtain critical Engine tech as originally envisioned as part of the MMRCA.

Once MMRCA & FGFA contracts have been completed, there would not be anything in the horizon for another 30 years. If India cannot develop these technologies on it's own, it would have to wait for another 1/2 century before such tech is indigenized.

Strategic Affairs

The Failed Negotiations with Snecma for Engine Technology

France’s Safran shelves plan for Rafale jet project in India - Livemint

'Make in India' for 90 medium combat jets - The Times of India

 

[Mamsalaphala]

We need to read this news along with the below RFP for 90 fighter planes. 36 Off the shelf and 90+ under MII. MMRCA RFP was cancelled as it mandated HAL as the lead integrator. The new contract would be on lines of the original RFP with Reliance replacing HAL. Also, this new contract would mean France is no longer required to share critical technology.

Now the question is not if India would procure 126+ RAFALEs or not but how does India obtain critical Engine tech as originally envisioned as part of the MMRCA.

Once MMRCA & FGFA contracts have been completed, there would not be anything in the horizon for another 30 years. If India cannot develop these technologies on it's own, it would have to wait for another 1/2 century before such tech is indigenized.

Strategic Affairs

The Failed Negotiations with Snecma for Engine Technology

France’s Safran shelves plan for Rafale jet project in India - Livemint

'Make in India' for 90 medium combat jets - The Times of India

MoD has de-linked Engine Tech transfer with MMRCA since it has not been moving forward. That is why MMRCA has been cancelled.

For Engine MoD is currently pursuing dual line, one is negotiations with Rafale for 50% offset and tech transfer if it desires a larger order.

Another with the US for Tech transfer for 414 Engine.

Whichever engine deal goes through will determine the number of aircrafts for IAF, its as simple as that.

An India-US Tussle Over Technology Transfer | The Diplomat

So if IN 414 ToT comes through then we will see a large number of LCA and AMCA in the IAF.

If Snecma M88 comes through, we will see a large number of Rafale.

Which is why its too early to celebrate and most people do not seem to get this simple fact. They are blinded by their love for Rafale.

 

[dadeechi]

MoD has de-linked Engine Tech transfer with MMRCA since it has not been moving forward. That is why MMRCA has been cancelled.

For Engine MoD is currently pursuing dual line, one is negotiations with Rafale for 50% offset and tech transfer if it desires a larger order.

Another with the US for Tech transfer for 414 Engine.

Whichever engine deal goes through will determine the number of aircrafts for IAF, its as simple as that.

An India-US Tussle Over Technology Transfer | The Diplomat

So if IN 414 ToT comes through then we will see a large number of LCA and AMCA in the IAF.

If Snecma M88 comes through, we will see a large number of Rafale.

Which is why its too early to celebrate and most people do not seem to get this simple fact. They are blinded by their love for Rafale.

Very well said. India needs to get the Engine tech either through RAFALE, LCA/AMCA or FGFA deals. That explains why all these deals have been stuck.

 

[Viper0011.]

NEW DELHI: India's largest-ever military deal is likely to bring in big business for the private sector with the French side looking to set up a production centre for the Rafale fighter aircraft as well as a low-cost executive jet in India, besides sharing vital aircraft technology for the indigenous Tejas project.

The article and the title is misleading. The French didn't want to build anything in India. This would be "assemble in India", integration of parts and kits, for ONLY Rafales purchased by India. In fact future follow up orders will have a lot to do with even "Assembling" becoming a reality.

Please update the title to "Assemble in India, the jets India ordered"!!

 

[gslv mk3]

The article and the title is misleading. The French didn't want to build anything in India. This would be "assemble in India", integration of parts and kits, for ONLY Rafales purchased by India. In fact future follow up orders will have a lot to do with even "Assembling" becoming a reality.

Please update the title to "Assemble in India, the jets India ordered"!!

Stop acting like a butt-hurt,ignorant troll

 

[khakhi_chaddi]

We need to read this news along with the below RFP for 90 fighter planes. 36 Off the shelf and 90+ under MII. MMRCA RFP was cancelled as it mandated HAL as the lead integrator. The new contract would be on lines of the original RFP with Reliance replacing HAL. Also, this new contract would mean France is no longer required to share critical technology.

Now the question is not if India would procure 126+ RAFALEs or not but how does India obtain critical Engine tech as originally envisioned as part of the MMRCA.

Once MMRCA & FGFA contracts have been completed, there would not be anything in the horizon for another 30 years. If India cannot develop these technologies on it's own, it would have to wait for another 1/2 century before such tech is indigenized.

Strategic Affairs

The Failed Negotiations with Snecma for Engine Technology

France’s Safran shelves plan for Rafale jet project in India - Livemint

'Make in India' for 90 medium combat jets - The Times of India

There is no RFP for 90 planes. All stories planted by reporters. No official from defence ministry has said anything. Parrikar has categorically said no more Rafales after 36. Only Tejas & AMCA.

PAK-FA will be bought as per requirement.

 

[dadeechi]

There is no RFP for 90 planes. All stories planted by reporters. No official from defence ministry has said anything. Parrikar has categorically said no more Rafales after 36. Only Tejas & AMCA.

PAK-FA will be bought as per requirement.

Well MP also said that we do not need RAFALEs, We cannot afford RAFALEs and SU30MKI could substitute RAFALEs.

What MP was saying could be part of the negotiations. I would take anything he said with a big bucket of salt like all these planted stories.

 

[Skull and Bones]

This shit is cliche, use this.

 

[khakhi_chaddi]

Well MP also said that we do not need RAFALEs, We cannot afford RAFALEs and SU30MKI could substitute RAFALEs.

What MP was saying could be part of the negotiations. I would take anything he said with a big bucket of salt like all these planted stories.

Its true that we do not need Rafale at price quoted by France. We may buy only 36 because of IAF's stupidity of floating a global tender.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

This shit is cliche, use this.

ok

 

[Abingdonboy]

But we should not get carried away. F35 lightening Vertical takeoff landing is a must have requirement for our Navy. It's a sitting duck in air for airforce but for Navy and Island defence fleets it's a Game changer. Naval Sam systems and electronic warfare capabilities at sea are critical when you want to carry out an assault on Naval fleet. Here is where F35 comes into play. Which can blind enemies radars and launch missiles from far way.

Why is the F-35B (VTOL model) a "must have" for the IN bro? The F-35B is by far the most comprimised model with the biggest issues.

With EMALS the IN will be able to get the F-35C which is far more capable than the B.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Honestly E2D is prime requirement and more important then may be F35s. That itself may make our ACCs and birds whether it's Rafale, Mig 29kk or NLCA a far more formidable force. I still feel getting F35 may be good partially but counterproductive more as it effectively kills our own 5th gen medium weight program. It's far more complicated with India not being part of F35 program which itself progressing not so great pace. On top US double speaking cannot be trusted much as seen with Pakistan as well as what's happening in Syria.

Don't take me wrong but recent steps by USA with regard to many things geo political are not very favourable to India and her interests.

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

Areva's Evolutionary Presuurized (water) Reactor EPR (1650 MWe) for Jaitapur stage 1 (2 units)
View attachment 275453 View attachment 275454
Alsthom's Prima 2 locomotive (12000 HP) for Eastern DFCIL. The company's website indicates closure of agreement signing in 2016.

View attachment 275456
View attachment 275455

And I think 1 more deal going to sign, developing a SSN for Indian Navy.

Honestly E2D is prime requirement and more important then may be F35s. That itself may make our ACCs and birds whether it's Rafale, Mig 29kk or NLCA a far more formidable force. I still feel getting F35 may be good partially but counterproductive more as it effectively kills our own 5th gen medium weight program. It's far more complicated with India not being part of F35 program which itself progressing not so great pace. On top US double speaking cannot be trusted much as seen with Pakistan as well as what's happening in Syria.

Don't take me wrong but recent steps by USA with regard to many things geo political are not very favourable to India and her interests.

AEW aircrafts (not heli) is must in next gen ACC