In bin Laden town, father mourns another militant.

[Irfan Baloch]

I am not sure why an article by someone with a title that the locals of Abbotabad will find very offensive and has nothing to do with our war effort against the Al Qeda and Taliban should be posted in this section?

 

[ziaulislam]

however one thing is for sure...
it was an execution, time and gain they said clearly they didnt wanted to take him alive...
i wounder why????

 

[Irfan Baloch]

If bin Laden had been dead before the raid (let's say of kidney disease) and the Americans put on a dog & pony show in Abbotabad, AQ would have very quickly discredited the operation by announcing "bin Laden was dead in 2006; here is the proof."

The bin Laden raid was a great morale boost to the USA. It brought feelings of closure for the crime of 9-11. Al Quaeda would not have let the opportunity escape to squash the euphoria, if they could have.

Instead, they more or less admitted bin Laden died that night in his compound.

thats true I have finally concluded the same.. the presence of his multiple wives that he was tossing at the SEALS to protect himself is yet another proof. and they too have not refuted that.
(moral of the story is, dont toss your wife at the attackers just use her as a shield and look for a trap door to "bravely run away".)


but having said that I am just confused why suddenly Obama became so sentimental and didn’t release the pictures of his face? That would have allayed a lot of rumours and speculations. His excuse is that the pictures would have caused a lot of backlash from the terrorists.

But we in Pakistan got the backlash despite that. Just have a look at the spike of the terrorist attacks afterwards. That happened in Pakistan. The irony which I strangly find funny is that the Taliban accused us of collaborating with Americans and selling Bin laden to them and our Allies accused us of harbouring him in the garrison town.
I must say if American accusation was correct then boy we been a lousy host. We look after our guests but looking at that “million dollar Manson” and the condition of the place and what he was wearing would put even the poorest of Pashton host to shame.


what is done is done nonetheless but like I said earlier, the people of that place would find it very offensive if they see this article where their town is being named after Osama.

 

[KRAIT]

thats true I have finally concluded the same.. the presence of his multiple wives that he was tossing at the SEALS to protect himself is yet another proof. and they too have not refuted that.
(moral of the story is, dont toss your wife at the attackers just use her as a shield and look for a trap door to "bravely run away".)


but having said that I am just confused why suddenly Obama became so sentimental and didn’t release the pictures of his face? That would have allayed a lot of rumours and speculations. His excuse is that the pictures would have caused a lot of backlash from the terrorists.

But we in Pakistan got the backlash despite that. Just have a look at the spike of the terrorist attacks afterwards. That happened in Pakistan. The irony which I strangly find funny is that the Taliban accused us of collaborating with Americans and selling Bin laden to them and our Allies accused us of harbouring him in the garrison town.
I must say if American accusation was correct then boy we been a lousy host. We look after our guests but looking at that “million dollar Manson” and the condition of the place and what he was wearing would put even the poorest of Pashton host to shame.


what is done is done nonetheless but like I said earlier, the people of that place would find it very offensive if they see this article where their town is being named after Osama.

Thats was the whole plan of not showing his body. They wanted to direct the backlash on pakistan. Otherwise there will be bombing in every american embassy in the counties where al-qaeda is active. They had a scapegoat, nation who has been previously accused of harboring and training the terrorists and considered a safe haven.

Well orchastareted execution and dumping the blame...as u already cleared this...

Cheers

 

[Icarus]

thats true I have finally concluded the same.. the presence of his multiple wives that he was tossing at the SEALS to protect himself is yet another proof. and they too have not refuted that.
(moral of the story is, dont toss your wife at the attackers just use her as a shield and look for a trap door to "bravely run away".)


but having said that I am just confused why suddenly Obama became so sentimental and didn’t release the pictures of his face? That would have allayed a lot of rumours and speculations. His excuse is that the pictures would have caused a lot of backlash from the terrorists.

But we in Pakistan got the backlash despite that. Just have a look at the spike of the terrorist attacks afterwards. That happened in Pakistan. The irony which I strangly find funny is that the Taliban accused us of collaborating with Americans and selling Bin laden to them and our Allies accused us of harbouring him in the garrison town.
I must say if American accusation was correct then boy we been a lousy host. We look after our guests but looking at that “million dollar Manson” and the condition of the place and what he was wearing would put even the poorest of Pashton host to shame.


what is done is done nonetheless but like I said earlier, the people of that place would find it very offensive if they see this article where their town is being named after Osama.

That's the Irony of it. Pakistan has become the "Noora" of the world.
A Noora is a boy committed to any child born to a Feudal Lord in rural Sindh. Whenever the Child has to be punished, it is his Noora that is beaten for his mistake. That is pretty much Pakistan's position. We get bashed for mistakes made collectively by the ISAF and the Taliban.

 

[KRAIT]

^^
Well said...

"Noora" new word for me ...

Cheers

 

[VCheng]

That's the Irony of it. Pakistan has become the "Noora" of the world.
A Noora is a boy committed to any child born to a Feudal Lord in rural Sindh. Whenever the Child has to be punished, it is his Noora that is beaten for his mistake. That is pretty much Pakistan's position. We get bashed for mistakes made collectively by the ISAF and the Taliban.

You have just described the abject and sustained failure of foreign policy on a massive scale, with the blame squarely on those who have controlled it, i.e. the Pakistan Army, no matter who was apparently in power over the decades, as if any more proof is needed that Pakistan is way out of its depth where international geopolitics is concerned.

There is no irony here, merely the inevitable end result of sheer incompetence and myopic thinking.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

what a ridiculous article which some people felt the need to even discuss on here...

 

[Icarus]

You have just described the abject and sustained failure of foreign policy on a massive scale, with the blame squarely on those who have controlled it, i.e. the Pakistan Army, no matter who was apparently in power over the decades, as if any more proof is needed that Pakistan is way out of its depth where international geopolitics is concerned.

There is no irony here, merely the inevitable end result of sheer incompetence and myopic thinking.

Whenever the Army has been in power, Pakistan has enjoyed good if not excellent standing on the world stage. It is the civilian government I must blame who see the powers as a counterweight to military influence in Pakistan and their inclination towards lending undue favour to the powers is what leads us into the "Noora Complex" as stated above.
Case in point, Drone attacks, during PM's time there had been about 16 attacks on highly valuable targets. As soon as PM left. The number of drone attacks saw a massive hike and besides that Americans began blaming us of harbouring terrorists on our soil in addition to the Taliban's claim of us subduing to the Americans in addition to the Pakistani Public's anger that we seem utterly helpless to repel repeated American incursions which are an insult to our sovereignty.

 

[VCheng]

Whenever the Army has been in power, Pakistan has enjoyed good if not excellent standing on the world stage. It is the civilian government I must blame who see the powers as a counterweight to military influence in Pakistan and their inclination towards lending undue favour to the powers is what leads us into the "Noora Complex" as stated above.
Case in point, Drone attacks, during PM's time there had been about 16 attacks on highly valuable targets. As soon as PM left. The number of drone attacks saw a massive hike and besides that Americans began blaming us of harbouring terrorists on our soil in addition to the Taliban's claim of us subduing to the Americans in addition to the Pakistani Public's anger that we seem utterly helpless to repel repeated American incursions which are an insult to our sovereignty.

Even when civilians have been in power, foreign policy has always been run by the Army. And it is a grave mistake to think that "Whenever the Army has been in power, Pakistan has enjoyed good if not excellent standing on the world stage." Pakistan during those times has been regarded as a military junta run near-banana-republic with a big ego simply because it has nuclear weapons (no offence intended).

And why all the indignation over perceived "insults to sovereignty"? Respect is earned, never obtained by demanding. This situation did not develop overnight, and will not be solved overnight either.

 

[Icarus]

Even when civilians have been in power, foreign policy has always been run by the Army. And it is a grave mistake to think that "Whenever the Army has been in power, Pakistan has enjoyed good if not excellent standing on the world stage." Pakistan during those times has been regarded as a military junta run near-banana-republic with a big ego simply because it has nuclear weapons (no offence intended).

And why all the indignation over perceived "insults to sovereignty"? Respect is earned, never obtained by demanding. This situation did not develop overnight, and will not be solved overnight either.

The thought that the Army has been running or dictating foreign policy even when civilians were in power is preposterous at best. Yes, foreign policy was influenced by the Army but not dictated by it. As far as the Banana republic goes, let me quote Kennedy and Reagan:
"It is my honour to welcome the head of one of the most powerful states in South Asia and a true American ally"-Kennedy on Ayub's Arrival to the US in 1961.

"Pakistan and the Mujahideen are our most valuable allies in the fight against oppression of the Afghan people"-Reagan on meeting Zia at the White House.

Yes, Sovereignty is earned, which we learnt late but I am happy that we did. Right now America's cost for shipping has gone from US$ 17 Million to US$ 126 Million per month. They will now either accept our sovereignty and learn to respect it or they will have to fight a losing war at an even higher cost. That my friend is diplomacy.....
"The art of saying 'Good Doggie' until you can find a big enough rock".

 

[AbhimanyuShrivastav]

"It is my honour to welcome the head of one of the most powerful states in South Asia and a true American ally"-Kennedy on Ayub's Arrival to the US in 1961.

"Pakistan and the Mujahideen are our most valuable allies in the fight against oppression of the Afghan people"-Reagan on meeting Zia at the White House.

And I am sure by now you are well acquainted with the garden path Pakistan was led down in that context.. Are you really using this as an example to prove Pakistan's good standing in the world under military dictators?

Yes, Sovereignty is earned, which we learnt late but I am happy that we did. Right now America's cost for shipping has gone from US$ 17 Million to US$ 126 Million per month. They will now either accept our sovereignty and learn to respect it or they will have to fight a losing war at an even higher cost.

You really believe that an extra cost of 1.2 billion dollars per annum means anything at all to United States...Specially to be used as a bargaining chip ??

That my friend is diplomacy.....
"The art of saying 'Good Doggie' until you can find a big enough rock".

Very true, but I think you have got confused so as to who is the nice doggie and who is the hand holding the rock in this case..

 

[Irfan Baloch]

And I am sure by now you are well acquainted with the garden path Pakistan was led down in that context.. Are you really using this as an example to prove Pakistan's good standing in the world under military dictators?

yup

let me add more

"Mujahideen are the moral equivalent of our founding fathers “Charlie Wilson”
"Haqqani is the goodness personified” Regan on meeting Sirajudin Haqqani in white house

---------- Post added at 10:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------

One last thing - if OBL was still alive after the raid, the very first thing he would do is make a video of himself with the headlines from the paper that day, laughing at everybody and proving the USA is a pack of liars.

---------- Post added at 09:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 AM ----------



<groan> I give up. This is troll food.

come on Chogy

you cant give up now

 

[AbhimanyuShrivastav]

yup

let me add more

"Mujahideen are the moral equivalent of our founding fathers &#8220;Charlie Wilson&#8221;
"Haqqani is the goodness personified&#8221; Regan on meeting Sirajudin Haqqani in white house

Personally to me these accolades were more representative of the garlands put around the neck of the sacrificial goats/cows during the Eid festival. No one ever claimed those to be representative of the respect being accorded to the animal.. But anyway, your outlook can be different from mine..

 

[VCheng]

The thought that the Army has been running or dictating foreign policy even when civilians were in power is preposterous at best. Yes, foreign policy was influenced by the Army but not dictated by it.

I would differ respectfully. That statement is not at all preposterous, but a reality.

As far as the Banana republic goes, let me quote Kennedy and Reagan:
"It is my honour to welcome the head of one of the most powerful states in South Asia and a true American ally"-Kennedy on Ayub's Arrival to the US in 1961.

"Pakistan and the Mujahideen are our most valuable allies in the fight against oppression of the Afghan people"-Reagan on meeting Zia at the White House.

1961 was 50 years ago! And Reagan's quote has been overtaken by subsequent events, specially 9/11. It is a changed world out there, Sir.

Yes, Sovereignty is earned, which we learnt late but I am happy that we did. Right now America's cost for shipping has gone from US$ 17 Million to US$ 126 Million per month. They will now either accept our sovereignty and learn to respect it or they will have to fight a losing war at an even higher cost.

How do your support your claim that you have earned sovereignty already? An extra 100 million per month is not nearly enough to make USA accept any substantive changes to policies sought by Pakistan.

That my friend is diplomacy.....
"The art of saying 'Good Doggie' until you can find a big enough rock".

Yes, I find that quote amusing.