Imran still chasing talks with military establishment

Imran still chasing talks with military establishment​

ISLAMABAD: Former prime minister Imran Khan on Monday ruled out talks with the government led by Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif calling it an exercise in futility, but appeared to be keen on initiating a dialogue with the military establishment — the ‘real decision makers’.

Talking to the media during his appearance at the Islamabad High Court (IHC) in connection with multiple cases, the PTI chairman said that he did not believe in “vengeance and will strive for the rule of law” if he came to power again.

In response to a question whether he was ready to hold talks with politicians on the charter of economy, Mr Khan replied that politicians, including the incumbent rulers, were “powerless and they have no authority to conclude the dialogues”. The establishment is the “real decision maker and power is concentrated” within the military, he claimed.

Mr Khan accused former army chief Qamar Javed Bajwa of “backstabbing” and said that he could have sacked Mr Bajwa on at least three different occasions, but he exercised restraint. The PTI chief dispelled the impression of being under pressure and said that he was more concerned for the economy.

He said that the debt servicing exceeded the federal budget, the economy was on the verge of default, and industry had almost collapsed and added that all the economic indicators declined in just one year.

He said that the incumbent government was responsible for the poor economy and the only solution for this problem was to explore venues of income generation, mega reforms, and taking drastic measures.

He further said that his government was buying Russian oil at 40 per cent less price. “Is this a solution, is this a reason for toppling my regime?” he questioned. It may be noted that the first shipment of Russian fuel reached Pakistan on Sunday.

In a comment on the statement of the opposition leader in the National Assembly about a delay in general elections, Mr Khan said that the ruling coalition was reluctant to hold elections even in October fearing defeat. He said that they thought PTI would be crushed but they could only dream for this. He termed the departure of heavyweights from his party ‘as a blessing in disguise’, saying that “he got rid of the electables and that those who had parted ways with him and formed a new party are the ultimate losers”. He was optimistic about winning the next general elections even if he would be jailed.

Mr Khan also distanced himself from the drugs case registered against Rana Sanaullah during his tenure and blamed it on the Anti-Narcotics Force (ANF) headed by a serving major general who had briefed the federal cabinet on the arrest of Mr Sanaullah.

He expressed apprehensions about his military trial in connection with the May 9 violence and said that the authorities were turning “approvers to charge him” under the Army Act. He termed trials of civilians in military courts as the end of democracy and justice.

Bail in graft case

Earlier, Mr Khan appeared before the IHC to pursue his petition seeking direction for the chief commissioner to shift at least four courts from Sector F-8 Markaz to the comparatively secure Federal Judicial Complex (FJC) in Sector G-11.

His lawyer stated that due to the fragile law and order situation in Sector F-8 Markaz, it was not convenient for Mr Khan to appear in the relevant judicial magistrates/trial courts.

These cases were based on the FIRs registered at four police stations in Islamabad.

Also on Monday, the PTI chairman filed two separate petitions, one of which pertained to a corruption case registered in Dera Ghazi Khan.

IHC Chief Justice Aamer Farooq granted Mr Khan protective bail in the corruption case and directed him to approach the chief commissioner for shifting of courts from F-8 to the judicial complex in G-11.

Published in Dawn, June 13th, 2023

Imran still chasing talks with military establishment

Says politicians, including incumbent rulers, are "powerless".

www.dawn.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1667598306942279685

 

[PakFactor]

I was recently thinking about what you wrote here --especially what the expat morons write about the 'FA Pass' Pakistani Army official class slander. As if the Pakistani Army, based mostly in Punjab, was hoisted upon Pakistan by some Martians. Or the ridiculous Expats idea of Imran moving to K-P to entrench himself and physically resist the Pakistani military. The Imrandoo Virus is potent and it makes people stupid.

Such pathetic analytical abilities by the so-called 'educated' Expats. Looks like the exposure to the new ideas and the education via the West escaped them altogether. And even worse, they are the ones who are asking for burning down Pakistan for some imaginary 'revolution' when there are no revolutionaries in Pakistan to begin with. The elitist, detached from the reality of Pakistan, the expats, are the ones who have joined Imran's calls to send money to Pakistan via 'Hundi', which is an illegal channel for remittance, with dire consequences for Pakistan.

How low can people go in their cult??

Apologies for the late reply.

What I see about expats is this, and tell me if I'm wrong. They have experienced the Western system of governance and accountability and want the same in Pakistan. Imran Khan educated in Oxford and living a Western-style, saw that same vision. Why can only retired military officers experience this after retirement? Do not other Pakistanis have the same right? However, the rule book for running Pakistan is entirely different.

Would he have been successful in the West as a leader? He would have, as the structure is accountable, and each government institution is run within its by-laws. The rest of the world is far ahead regarding education and understanding how the world works and how to develop a country.

I will say this, Imran Khan was born by bad luck in the wrong country. This country we call Pakistan never respected and honored its heroes and always threw them away as trash; Dr. Abdus Salam, Abdul Qadeer Khan, and many such examples of how they've been treated. This should be enough for an intelligent person to understand it's not worth putting your neck on the line for.

What I'm now seeing among Overseas Pakistanis in group chats, and WhatsApp is the hopelessness when looking at Pakistan. It's on the verge that this generation will abandon the country and fully embracing their adopted country as their own, and we might see more integration here. Could this be by design? I do not know, but it's what the West wanted, and they've been given it without any strings attached.

 

[BamsiBey]

Well the real question is: Why are certain Army Generals against IK?

1. Vested interests and their corruption, promotion, and essentially jobs/money at stake

2. Won't go against US wishes of removing IK. they probably fear the US will blacklist them, put sanctions on pakistan like Iran, and hunt these generals around the world probably.

Either way they are thinking without a vision and greater plan for Pakistan.

 

[Tamerlane]

What’s called the establishment is really just Asim Munir calling the shots helped along by a few henchmen.

All the other members of the so-called establishment, like other officers, judiciary, bureaucracy etc are scared to death of what Whiskey will do to them if they dare to oppose him.

For now the generals are acting like lawless bandits, murdering, torturing, raping, blackmailing, terrorizing the whole country. The more people hurl abuse at them the more determined they become to burn down the whole country. No one can talk reason with them.

There’s no point in Imran Khan talking to the thugs. The only way out is if some generals with some brains, who don’t want to see the country burn, remove the chief of the bandits, Asim Munir.

 

[Meengla]

Imran Khan educated in Oxford and living a Western-style, saw that same vision. Why can only retired military officers experience this after retirement? Do not other Pakistanis have the same right? However, the rule book for running Pakistan is entirely different.

G.W. Bush went to Yale. Imran went to Oxford. Both are not the brightest examples of leadership or intelligence. Throw enough money and anyone can get to anywhere. Benazir Bhutto, who was Imran's contemporary at Oxford, shined and rose to the top. Imran whored around and was a good cricketer. That's all. Otherwise, a mediocre educational achievements.

Would he have been successful in the West as a leader? He would have, as the structure is accountable, and each government institution is run within its by-laws.

I think of Imran as a 'Mini Trump'--perhaps a 'Miniscule Trump'. He is a tireless person who could have done wonders for charity, environmental causes in Pakistan but leadership at the topmost level was NEVER for him. In our hatred for the old-order we should not embrace something even worse. And he is even worse than the old order (minus Altaf and Nawaz Sharif).

I will say this, Imran Khan was born by bad luck in the wrong country. This country we call Pakistan never respected and honored its heroes and always threw them away as trash; Dr. Abdus Salam, Abdul Qadeer Khan, and many such examples of how they've been treated.

Yeah, he was born in the wrong country. Pakistan's misfortune! He definitely knows how to fool people with the Imrandoo Virus. The 1992 Cricket World Cup was as much a result of Wasim Akram, Javed Miandad, Inzimaam ul Haq as Imran Khan but Imran milked that to his personal advantage. 'Mein', 'me', 'Iam'. Even his 'charities' greatly pale in comparison with Edhi and Chippa charities. And look at his choice of a wife? A witch-craft practicing woman surrounded by the real-estate moguls like Malik Riaz and Farah Gogi? And Imran selling State-gifts like a wrist-watch and pocketing the money?? Is there anything resembling Riyasat e Medina in that setup?

It's on the verge that this generation will abandon the country and fully embracing their adopted country as their own, and we might see more integration here. Could this be by design?

This is one more fallacy the overseas Pakistanis have: With Imran's downfall, tens of millions of Pakistanis would abandon Pakistan. The Imrandoo Virus is going to fade away. But, yes, 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants would adopt the local culture and move on and that's not unique to Pakistan.

 

[Fasbre2]

G.W. Bush went to Yale. Imran went to Oxford. Both are not the brightest examples of leadership or intelligence. Throw enough money and anyone can get to anywhere. Benazir Bhutto, who was Imran's contemporary at Oxford, shined and rose to the top. Imran whored around and was a good cricketer. That's all. Otherwise, a mediocre educational achievements.

I think of Imran as a 'Mini Trump'--perhaps a 'Miniscule Trump'. He is a tireless person who could have done wonders for charity, environmental causes in Pakistan but leadership at the topmost level was NEVER for him. In our hatred for the old-order we should not embrace something even worse. And he is even worse than the old order (minus Altaf and Nawaz Sharif).

Yeah, he was born in the wrong country. Pakistan's misfortune! He definitely knows how to fool people with the Imrandoo Virus. The 1992 Cricket World Cup was as much a result of Wasim Akram, Javed Miandad, Inzimaam ul Haq as Imran Khan but Imran milked that to his personal advantage. 'Mein', 'me', 'Iam'. Even his 'charities' greatly pale in comparison with Edhi and Chippa charities. And look at his choice of a wife? A witch-craft practicing woman surrounded by the real-estate moguls like Malik Riaz and Farah Gogi? And Imran selling State-gifts like a wrist-watch and pocketing the money?? Is there anything resembling Riyasat e Medina in that setup?


This is one more fallacy the overseas Pakistanis have: With Imran's downfall, tens of millions of Pakistanis would abandon Pakistan. The Imrandoo Virus is going to fade away. But, yes, 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants would adopt the local culture and move on and that's not unique to re Pakistan.

Still a million times better than your sharif family or Zardari lot..and better and more decent human being..

 

[PakFactor]

G.W. Bush went to Yale. Imran went to Oxford. Both are not the brightest examples of leadership or intelligence. Throw enough money and anyone can get to anywhere. Benazir Bhutto, who was Imran's contemporary at Oxford, shined and rose to the top. Imran whored around and was a good cricketer. That's all. Otherwise, a mediocre educational achievements.

No one is the brightest; it's the team you have to run the show. A CEO isn't HR, Accountant, etc. himself; he surrounds himself with the best available. Regan was a movie man but had the right people. But as stated before, the pool of people in Pakistan is sub-par quality; he got what the country offered, which was it's best and brightest.

But let's not forget one thing: Imran Khan set up an Economic Council composed of the best Ph.D. in Economics from top schools, mainly from Ivy Leagues, but then you had our mullah brigade destroy it over Ahmadiyaa accusations against one of the members. Everyone said, "We do not work in this environment." They bailed.

So again, Pakistani's sub-par mentality shot itself in the foot; it wasn't IK's fault. The blame falls on Zia and Bhutto for this disease they left behind.

Yeah, he was born in the wrong country. Pakistan's misfortune! He definitely knows how to fool people with the Imrandoo Virus. The 1992 Cricket World Cup was as much a result of Wasim Akram, Javed Miandad, Inzimaam ul Haq as Imran Khan but Imran milked that to his personal advantage. 'Mein', 'me', 'Iam'. Even his 'charities' greatly pale in comparison with Edhi and Chippa charities. And look at his choice of a wife? A witch-craft practicing woman surrounded by the real-estate moguls like Malik Riaz and Farah Gogi? And Imran selling State-gifts like a wrist-watch and pocketing the money?? Is there anything resembling Riyasat e Medina in that setup?

I mean, you had Maryum take two BMWs and report it and then say she didn't own two BMWs. You see her lie on documents showing a font that wasn't created then. Anyone can see that at least IK paid for the items per the Toshakana law, and once he's the rightful owner, he can sell the items however he wishes.

Let's not forget he did have a good wife from the UK, but the Amristari Gashti Nawaz family slandered her left and right. That shows the mentality more so about Pakistanis than him or her.

This is one more fallacy the overseas Pakistanis have: With Imran's downfall, tens of millions of Pakistanis would abandon Pakistan. The Imrandoo Virus is going to fade away. But, yes, 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants would adopt the local culture and move on and that's not unique to Pakistan.

I agree he will fade away, but remember, once a virus comes, it wrecks the body. It's not the same body as before. You will have scars that will heal but leave marks. You have youth inside the country who are now disenfranchised and remove themselves from the political process. In effect, giving up any hope for the future; when you have a drag queen waiting to be PM, there isn't much hope left.

I'm reminded of an old saying you might have heard: Nicha ki sanash kisi na pal nai paya

I think of Imran as a 'Mini Trump'--perhaps a 'Miniscule Trump'. He is a tireless person who could have done wonders for charity, environmental causes in Pakistan but leadership at the topmost level was NEVER for him. In our hatred for the old-order we should not embrace something even worse. And he is even worse than the old order (minus Altaf and Nawaz Sharif).

The old order has never accomplished anything worth mentioning. So I do not know who's worse: the one who built and properly ran hospitals and cared for people, or those who engineered coups and political parties and dragged the country by their feet to the grave?

IK didn't need anything special except create an atmosphere of trust and allow people to invest, but it dawned on new money; this is not an environment to support that's volatile. Now you have the effect of businesses fleeing the country. As someone posted on this forum, we have over 10 million educated youth currently unemployed, and numbers increased dramatically in the last year.

 

[Communism]

CIA agent Imran bankrupts the country and then refuses to let the country get away from the Democratic Populism that has kept it down for its entire existence.


It has even infected the Pakistani Military Establishment now.


If the Pakistani Military doesn't convict Imran Khan of corruption and ban him from politics, I give it a decade before West India recovers.


The idea of the mere possibility of his presence on the ballot has/is/will cripple the willingness of the civilian political parties to tamp down on Democratic Populist Bankruptcy Seeking Behaviour.

 

[Meengla]

The old order has never accomplished anything worth mentioning. So I do not know who's worse: the one who built and properly ran hospitals and cared for people, or those who engineered coups and political parties and dragged the country by their feet to the grave?

Bolded Part: My friend--this is one more fallacy in Pakistan: Pakistan, starting from 1947 and with far less less resources, was ahead of India well into the 1980s. The same political class, the same military, the same beauraacracy, the same judiciary, the same people in media. I don't mean literally 'the same'. What I mean is inherently Pakistan was and is capable of good economic growth again if and when stability is introduced.

To me, there is no difference between PMLN and PTI except that PMLN, minus the arrogant stupid Nawaz Sharif, does have at least some kind of debate in the party. And so, even before the May 9 events, in a poll at PDF, I, an Urdu Speaker Pakistani with the right to vote in Pakistan, had said I would have voted for PMLN in the next elections, given the opportunity.

Imran Khan's PTI was never a political party. It was a cult. Honestly, a cult. It was akin to the cult around the likes of Hitler or Trump but the latter people were/are infinitely smarter than Imran.

Imran is a morally and intellectually bankrupt person. Perhaps too much 'Chars'? Perhaps a lifetime of pampering? A person is known by the company they keep. Marrying a witch-craft practicing Bushra Bibi?? WTH?? And don't be surprised if she too betrays him in some state-sponsored deal. Contrast that with the ladies who stood around Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif!! They took a lot of abuse by the same 'Establishment' which is not punishing Imran as harshly yet and yet they stood by their leaders/men.

 

[PakFactor]

Bolded Part: My friend--this is one more fallacy in Pakistan: Pakistan, starting from 1947 and with far less less resources, was ahead of India well into the 1980s. The same political class, the same military, the same beauraacracy, the same judiciary, the same people in media. I don't mean literally 'the same'. What I mean is inherently Pakistan was and is capable of good economic growth again if and when stability is introduced.

To me, there is no difference between PMLN and PTI except that PMLN, minus the arrogant stupid Nawaz Sharif, does have at least some kind of debate in the party. And so, even before the May 9 events, in a poll at PDF, I, an Urdu Speaker Pakistani with the right to vote in Pakistan, had said I would have voted for PMLN in the next elections, given the opportunity.

Imran Khan's PTI was never a political party. It was a cult. Honestly, a cult. It was akin to the cult around the likes of Hitler or Trump but the latter people were/are infinitely smarter than Imran.

Imran is a morally and intellectually bankrupt person. Perhaps too much 'Chars'? Perhaps a lifetime of pampering? A person is known by the company they keep. Marrying a witch-craft practicing Bushra Bibi?? WTH?? And don't be surprised if she too betrays him in some state-sponsored deal. Contrast that with the ladies who stood around Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif!! They took a lot of abuse by the same 'Establishment' which is not punishing Imran as harshly yet and yet they stood by their leaders/men.

See the graph below, which @PakSword shared recently. We were close in economic development with India until Martial laws and political engineering started. After snapping Pakistan's spine in the 1970s, the Indian economy took off, leaving Pakistan in the dust. As for Ayub Khan's so-called Golden Days of Pakistan, it was nothing but foreign aid up to 60% per different sources that funded his vanity projects which, to date, haven't produced a profit on their own and have the ability to survive without the government feeding these dead weights. Even after the War on Terror, it was American blessing's they opened their markets to Pakistan; it was nothing but a 100B GDP economy before.

So Pakistan was never in good economic hands. Sad to say, it was idiots ruling the country through and through.

I want to point out that Pakistan's Net International Reserves currently stands at a negative $ 14 billion.

In Pakistan, a political party is a cult; down to the grassroots level, there is too much personality, tribe, and clan worship; now, you have a Hafeez-e-Quran worship team. I have seen videos where some say Hafeez-e-Quran will lead us to conquer India and sing nats in masjids. Then you talk about his Syed lineage, and let me tell you, a Syed wouldn't allow some aurat's chadar to be ripped or beg with open hands, so his being of that lineage is out of the question.

As I said, the same character assassination you are throwing at him, even worse, is on PDM.

So like I said before, it's choosing the best out of the worst. The result of the last 1.5 years is right in front of you.

 

[PakCan]

It is still the establishment because the CoAS has the entire armed forces command (including the office of the CJCSC), the sitting government, bureaucracy and to a certain extent, judiciary aligned with the current direction and letting things play out.

Establishment is not some shadowy council of men orchestrating, rather the people sitting in our institutions. And factually speaking, the establishment of today has not sold any part of country, has not lost any wars, has not surrendered to India, has not sold any citizens to anyone nor split up the country. Past collective follies (to which all including the Khaki and Mufti have contributed) cannot be assigned to the head of the incumbent CoAS regardless of ones political disagreement with him. I get the point that this can and must not be a one-man show and sometimes the office of the CoAS is assigned more power than it really has.

And when you say "Asim Munir has personal enmity towards Imran Khan", as we have learned since we were children, it takes two hands to clap. Khan sahib did certain things as well when supposedly questionable issues were raised to him by a certain Lt Gen Asim Muneer which led to his transfer. Maybe the latter feels that IK is hypocritical in talking about others corruption while overlooking that of his own kin. You have to grant that on account of their working relationship, the Army knows certain things about Khan sahib that perhaps most here are not privy to just the same as Khan sahib states about Bajwa et-al so there is history here.

I don’t believe that’s true. If there was anything it would have been made public by now. They are throwing everything and anything at Khan and nothing has damaged his reputation. COAS is mentally unstable and the whole institution will pay the price if they don’t get rid of him

 

[MajorMinor]

Thook kr chaatna kehtay hain es ko

 

[Communism]

I don’t believe that’s true. If there was anything it would have been made public by now. They are throwing everything and anything at Khan and nothing has damaged his reputation. COAS is mentally unstable and the whole institution will pay the price if they don’t get rid of him

The only reason why Imran Khan is still alive is because he has too many personality cult followers in the Pakistani Military Establishment.


If anyone else in the country did what he did, they would have been dead long ago.

 

[HerbertPervert]

What I'm now seeing among Overseas Pakistanis in group chats, and WhatsApp is the hopelessness when looking at Pakistan. It's on the verge that this generation will abandon the country and fully embracing their adopted country as their own, and we might see more integration here. Could this be by design? I do not know, but it's what the West wanted, and they've been given it without any strings attached.

Khan's first interview with Orya right after Bajwa retired was an eye opener. He said that he wasn't as disappointed with being removed as he was being removed just as when they had finally stabilized the economy and the future looked promising. I had always argued with family the same, that the army let Khan come into power, but only until he fixes the mess.

Despite Khan's shortcomings, exports and remittances, the only way to escape the debt cycle, were at a historical high. Since his departure, both exports & remittances have dropped and country has lost $7 billion.

In other words, the establishment did not remove Imran Khan because he was a threat to them. The establishment removed him because he was going to make Pakistan a strong, economically independent country. That was something no one could tolerate.

Just as ZAB started the nuclear program and paid for it with his life, Khan paid for trying to free the country from its shackles. Pakistan is supposed to be unstable, economically weak, dependent on foreign loans by design. The establishment is simply a tool to ensure that this country remains within these parameters.

 

[PakCan]

The only reason why Imran Khan is still alive is because he has too many personality cult followers in the Pakistani Military Establishment.


If anyone else in the country did what he did, they would have been dead long ago.

Would you like to tell us what he did?

I know few people of Pakistan are living in their own created fantasy and the majority are fully awake. “Cult” leader tried to give power to the people, tried to create an environment where no one is above the law. Establishment blind lover boys have failed to lane from their history of blunders.

Zia ruled for 10+years? What happened when elections were held? PPP came back with a strong majority. How long do you think this traitor in chief will rule for? Let’s give him 10 years, what happens after that? You think majority of Pakistanis which are young will forget everything? If khan was a cult leader, he would have agreed to a compromise with establishment.

 

[Communism]

Would you like to tell us what he did?

I know few people of Pakistan are living in their own created fantasy and the majority are fully awake. “Cult” leader tried to give power to the people, tried to create an environment where no one is above the law. Establishment blind lover boys have failed to lane from their history of blunders.

Zia ruled for 10+years? What happened when elections were held? PPP came back with a strong majority. How long do you think this traitor in chief will rule for? Let’s give him 10 years, what happens after that? You think majority of Pakistanis which are young will forget everything? If khan was a cult leader, he would have agreed to a compromise with establishment.

The examples were already given earlier in the thread.


The earlier examples resulted in near immediate show trial followed by execution by hanging.


And this simply for the crime of being slightly disloyal to Pakistani Military Establishment wishes.


Imran Khan works for the CIA and literally tries to keep the country bankrupt after he bankrupted the country personally while in power.


The Personality Cult members here are clearly immune to reality.