Imran Khan to take Khawaja Asif to Court!

[Solomon2]

sory friend, its just another of wishfull thinking of yours!

You seem to agree with my suggested tactics but it's "wishful thinking" that Pakistanis will have the courage to act?

Mullaha,s & politicians ! both we hve only the incompetent ones!

If you expose them as incompetent you set them up for defeat in the next election, yes? Incompetents appeal to prejudice to cover themselves: that's why you have to deny them this weapon.

clock is ticking, but this time its gona be brutal for sure, democracy in pakistan is called damocrazy, cause its just for elites to enjoy absolute power?

Do you think matters will improve if Imran Khan is assassinated? I don't.

blame claim game, just not to solve any problem of pakistanis, just to pass the time? wait for another 5 years. thn wht same thing, maybe in a different style?

Why not work to change matters, instead?

anyhow its been IK s weakest of points he should think to get a political answer of it, rather thn getting crazy & threating every tom, dick, & harry into the NOORA courts?

I see no reason why a demonstration supporting IK on the grounds that Israel isn't demonic should involve Imran Khan at all. It should be much more effective than a court battle, yes? This is something for IK supporters to do, whether their bosses tell them to or not.

 

[Developereo]

What better and more immediate way to undermine the demonize-IK-as-a-Zionist approach than to organize a prominent demonstration in the street arguing that whether or not IK supports Zionism that doesn't mean he should be deprived of life or office because Zionism isn't really a bad thing?

OR...

We could take this as an opportunity to educate people that our quarrel is with Zionism, not Judaism. That "helping a Jew" is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

OR...

We could take this as an opportunity to educate people that our quarrel is with Zionism, not Judaism. That "helping a Jew" is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

OR...

We could realize that neither has done anything to harm us or Pakistan and stay out of the whole fight?

 

[Solomon2]

We could take this as an opportunity to educate people that our quarrel is with Zionism, not Judaism. That "helping a Jew" is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

Don't you think that "fine distinction" is going to be lost on whoever tries to assassinate IK? No, you have to pull out the rug from under these guys entirely!

 

[modern_newton]

IK is getting the taste of his own medicine. He also insulted other politicians Nawaz, zardari, altaf, fazul rehman etc . He should stop moaning and whining if others does the same

 

[Developereo]

OR...

We could realize that neither has done anything to harm us or Pakistan and stay out of the whole fight?

I am not talking about Pakistan's official state policy but individual people's position on the matter.

One could have ignored the South African apartheid crimes, or the Rwandan crimes, or the Yugoslavian crimes, or the Sudanese crimes, or ...

It is entirely possible to live one's life in a selfish cocoon and shrug it all off with 'not my problem' and 'might is right'.

Don't you think that "fine distinction" is going to be lost on whoever tries to assassinate IK?

There is a world of difference between Zionism as an ideology and Judaism as a religion. Ironically, the one thing that extremists on both sides have in common is their tendency to conflate the two concepts.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

I am not talking about Pakistan's official state policy but individual people's position on the matter.

One could have ignored the South African apartheid crimes, or the Rwandan crimes, or the Yugoslavian crimes, or the Sudanese crimes, or ...

It is entirely possible to live one's life in a selfish cocoon and shrug it all off with 'not my problem' and 'might is right'.............

Of course. Moral outrage over wrongs on a personal level is and should be very different from state policies. National interests should be the goal of state policies.

 

[Solomon2]

There is a world of difference between Zionism as an ideology and Judaism as a religion.

It's a matter of debate among Jews whether Zionism is a necessary component to Judaism or not. I'm sure you want to seize on the arguments that suit your preference yet you're as much a judge in this debate as I would be one in deciding whether Sunni or Shi'a is the "more correct" version of Islam.

 

[Developereo]

It's a matter of debate among Jews whether Zionism is a necessary component to Judaism or not. I'm sure you want to seize on the arguments that suit your preference yet you're as much a judge in this debate as I would be one in deciding whether Sunni or Shi'a is the "more correct" version of Islam.

Bonus points for acceding that some Jews want to make Zionism a religious duty of all Jews and to frame Israel/Palestine as a religious issue.

This is what I have been saying all along and it's nice to finally have it acknowledged.

 

[Solomon2]

Bonus points for acceding that some Jews want to make Zionism a religious duty of all Jews and to frame Israel/Palestine as a religious issue.

Um, no. First, we're not talking about imposing the beliefs of one set of Jews upon another but a disputation over the issue. Second, I wasn't talking about framing "Palestine" - that is, the status of the settlement of non-Jews in the Holy Land - as a religious issue.

What's left now is my suggestion: that the best, most effective, and most immediate way to support IK - to keep him from assassination - is the public expression of the moral basis of support for Israel by Pakistanis. Of course, you'll get into discussions like the ones I have with Developereo. But you'll also establish that raw demonization of Jews and Zionists isn't sufficient cause to murder him.

 

[Developereo]

Um, no. First, we're not talking about imposing the beliefs of one set of Jews upon another but a disputation over the issue. Second, I wasn't talking about framing "Palestine" - that is, the status of the settlement of non-Jews in the Holy Land - as a religious issue.

This is your assertion:

It's a matter of debate among Jews whether Zionism is a necessary component to Judaism or not.

This means that, if Zionism is a "necessary" component of Judaism, then it becomes incumbent on every practicing Jew to be a Zionist. Else, how can one claim to be an adherent if one rejects a "necessary" component of the religion?

Hence, the aim of these Jews is to mandate support of Israel as a religious duty of every practicing Jew, and to declare that any Jews who don't support Israel are, ipso facto, not Jews at all.

Anyways, getting off-topic, so I will let you continue.

 

[Vinod2070]

It seems that people have a problem with "Zionism and not Judaism" in the same way that they have a "political issue with India".

Doesn't take long to see through it...

 

[Solomon2]

This means that, if Zionism is a "necessary" component of Judaism, then it becomes incumbent on every practicing Jew to be a Zionist. Else, how can one claim to be an adherent if one rejects a "necessary" component of the religion?

If I say good nutrition is important does that mean I can force you to eat everything in the cafeteria line? Of course not; I'm trying to get you to make more health-conscious choices. It's the same thing here.

Anyways, getting off-topic, so I will let you continue.

You now face the issue, Developereo, of what you personally can do to help democracy survive and thrive in Pakistan. I've suggested that the action with the highest chance of success is to participate - even organize - a rally of Pakistanis supporting Israel in support of Imran Khan.

You find no fault in my suggested course of action, nor do you have a better course in mind. What are you going to do?

 

[Developereo]

If I say good nutrition is important does that mean I can force you to eat everything in the cafeteria line? Of course not; I'm trying to get you to make more health-conscious choices. It's the same thing here.

The word you used was "necessary", not "important". If you are now trying to water down your initial statement, then that's fine.

You now face the issue, Developereo, of what you personally can do to help democracy survive and thrive in Pakistan. I've suggested that the action with the highest chance of success is to participate - even organize - a rally of Pakistanis supporting Israel in support of Imran Khan.

You find no fault in my suggested course of action, nor do you have a better course in mind. What are you going to do?

I already replied that the proper course of action is to reject anti-Semitism, not anti-Zionism, and to educate the public about the difference.

 

[Solomon2]

I already replied that the proper course of action is to reject anti-Semitism, not anti-Zionism, and to educate the public about the difference.

You don't think that's enough to keep Imran Khan from getting assassinated, do you? You've never answered this question straight.

I can't see how you can maintain rejecting Zionism is "the proper course of action", seeing that Zionism can be supported entirely and independently by several different viewpoints: legal, humanitarian, and religious. You know you haven't been able to win an argument with me on these grounds; you've only reverted to repeating your position over and over.

This is doubtless a reflection of the battle that needs to take place.