Impeachment

[Interceptor]

Interceptor,

Are you kidding me? Ansar Abbasi is in the NS camp and has been for a very long time. He has done his utmost to undermine Musharraf in every single report that he puts out. Just google his name and reports online and you will get the real deal on what this chap has been up to.

Secondly, if there are threats to him about being taken to court then he should fight it out. The impeachment charges are all bogus. However if the current government allows him to resign with dignity worthy of the President of the state then he should go with that. It just depends on what is being proposed and how its being proposed. The reality is indeed that Musharraf unlike Nawaz Sharif and Asif Zardari does not have multi-million dollar mansions in different countries. He has never lived outside of Pakistan so we will have to see what is being proposed to him.

Yeah Blain he isn't PML-N supporter that's just his cover act he's more a JUI-F supporter, 2 years back he was supporting Musharraf since 07 March he has switched sides, and I am telling you that he is a prominent supporter of the Musharraf Camp, try reading his "Opinion" articles he criticizes the Coalition for backing Musharraf which is not true, he puts a lot of omissions in his articles, lately he took a hard core stance against him due to what happened to him.

Blain in such a cases they do not take the President (Defecto) to court, the President and Prime Minister are protected by the Constitution no criminal case can juried against them from the courts (until their tenure or until they are civilians), only the Parliament can Jury in such cases and punish the individual, Article 6 only comes in effect under the Parliament, if tomorrow in the Parliament Article 6 is announced there wont be any room left for Musharraf.

I have heard from a source that Musharraf has taken the stance to go through the impeachment process, I worry he should resign in immediate effect from tomorrow, Article 47 allows him to do so.

 

[fatman17]

Yeah Blain he isn't PML-N supporter that's just his cover act he's more a JUI-F supporter, 2 years back he was supporting Musharraf since 07 March he has switched sides, and I am telling you that he is a prominent supporter of the Musharraf Camp, try reading his "Opinion" articles he criticizes the Coalition for backing Musharraf which is not true, he puts a lot of omissions in his articles, lately he took a hard core stance against him due to what happened to him.

Blain in such a cases they do not take the President (Defecto) to court, the President and Prime Minister are protected by the Constitution no criminal case can juried against them from the courts (until their tenure or until they are civilians), only the Parliament can Jury in such cases and punish the individual, Article 6 only comes in effect under the Parliament, if tomorrow in the Parliament Article 6 is announced there wont be any room left for Musharraf.

I have heard from a source that Musharraf has taken the stance to go through the impeachment process, I worry he should resign in immediate effect from tomorrow, Article 47 allows him to do so.[/QUOTE]

you seem to have the pulse of the nation! ****-sure of what should be done!

 

[Interceptor]

President’s impeachment: Ruling coalition meeting to continue Monday

Updated at: 1620 PST, Sunday, August 10, 2008

ISLAMABAD: Ruling coalition’s special draft committee has ended its meeting today which will resume tomorrow.

According to sources, meeting was held at the residence of Federal Information Minister Sherry Rehman in which 8-point charge sheet was being considered.

President Musharraf’s October 12, 1999 military coup against Nawaz Sharraf government, suspension of constitution, imposition of partial Martial Law, Lal Masjid operation, judges’ sacking, weakening of the federation will be the main points of the charge sheet, sources say.

Apart from these points; allowing the foreign powers to intervene in the country’s politics, missing persons, Dr. Qadir Issue and Benazir Bhutto’s assassination were also under consideration, it said.

In addition, members of parliament elected from the FATA are demanding to add military operation in FATA in the charge sheet while Baloch nationalists are also demanding for addition of Balochistan operation in the charge sheet.

Minority member are also demanding to add the points regarding withdrawal of direct election for minority members, sources say.

President’s impeachment: Ruling coalition meeting to continue Monday



This is not pretty, Nawaz Sharif may have one on the table, it looks to me Nawaz will have his ways.

This development shows that the Coalition is seeking no time from Musharraf's decisions, they are going to impeach him, I heard on News that PML-Q Leaders saying to Musharraf to resign they know the inevitable.

 

[fatman17]

President’s impeachment: Ruling coalition meeting to continue Monday

Updated at: 1620 PST, Sunday, August 10, 2008

ISLAMABAD: Ruling coalition’s special draft committee has ended its meeting today which will resume tomorrow.

According to sources, meeting was held at the residence of Federal Information Minister Sherry Rehman in which 8-point charge sheet was being considered.

President Musharraf’s October 12, 1999 military coup against Nawaz Sharraf government, suspension of constitution, imposition of partial Martial Law, Lal Masjid operation, judges’ sacking, weakening of the federation will be the main points of the charge sheet, sources say.

Apart from these points; allowing the foreign powers to intervene in the country’s politics, missing persons, Dr. Qadir Issue and Benazir Bhutto’s assassination were also under consideration, it said.

In addition, members of parliament elected from the FATA are demanding to add military operation in FATA in the charge sheet while Baloch nationalists are also demanding for addition of Balochistan operation in the charge sheet.

Minority member are also demanding to add the points regarding withdrawal of direct election for minority members, sources say.

President’s impeachment: Ruling coalition meeting to continue Monday



This is not pretty, Nawaz Sharif may have one on the table, it looks to me Nawaz will have his ways.

This development shows that the Coalition is seeking no time from Musharraf's decisions, they are going to impeach him, I heard on News that PML-Q Leaders saying to Musharraf to resign they know the inevitable.

while we are at it - why dont we charge sheet all the generals who have served in the army from 1999-2007. after all they were supporting him. guilty by alliance!

 

[BATMAN]

while we are at it - why dont we charge sheet all the generals who have served in the army from 1999-2007. after all they were supporting him. guilty by alliance!

That will follow next and I have no doubts what so ever.
Fate of Pakistan is written already by US and their western counterparts. It's just matter of time now.
All hindrance to their plans would be removed one by one.
We cannot treat events in individual capacity they were going on from some time now!
it all started with Human rights, than came media, nuclear assets, Army, ISI and so on till today.
We have to decide our future today it’s do or die situation.
Hell with the world, we need to take control of the situation now.

 

[JK!]

while we are at it - why dont we charge sheet all the generals who have served in the army from 1999-2007. after all they were supporting him. guilty by alliance!

That would result in a "slippery slope" mentality that Pakistan cannot afford to go down.

 

[Interceptor]

Zardari accuses Musharraf of misappropriating US aid

Updated at: 2030 PST, Sunday, August 10, 2008
ISLAMABAD: Co-chairman Pakistan People’s Party, Asif Ali Zardari has disclosed that President Pervez Musharraf attempted to sabotage the present set up due to which the government was forced to take an extreme measure of his impeachment.

In his interview to a UK based newspaper, he also disclosed that his government would investigate the appropriation of American aid given for supporting the war on terror.

Zardari said the Army was only receiving about a quarter of the $1 billion annual funds from the US.

He said the army was only getting 250-300 million dollars and that the loss of the remaining 700 million dollars was not something to be taken lightly. He added that the official explanation was that the money had gone towards budget support.

He asserted that his party was actively looking for the money.

When questioned about the new drive towards impeachment, Zarari says he offered Musharraf an honourable exit that the latter had refused. Zardari claims he was left with no choice but to go along with Nawaz Sharif's more aggressive approach.

As I said the Coalition wont wait any more for Musharraf's response they have decided to impeach Musharraf with effect, this also might mean Article 6 may also be put in effect as I understand that Nawaz Sharif has been given open ground to do as he wish, tomorrow might determine those actions and response that were avoided and subverted for more than 30 years.

 

[JK!]

Nawaz Sharif has been given open ground to do as he wish

So an unelected individual is being given free reign to make decisions that affect an entire country.

Yet again more proof that this is Nawaz Sharifs personal crusade.

As for Musharraf and corruption I'll believe it when foreign courts accuse him with evidence like Zardari. The latter is the last person who should be accusing others of such crimes.

 

[Neo]

Editorial: How credible is impeachment?​

The leader of the lawyers’ movement, Aitzaz Ahsan, has rejected out of hand the decision of the PPP-PMLN allies to impeach President Pervez Musharraf. He thinks even the president couldn’t have laid a better plan to discomfit the government in power. Mr Imran Khan and his party have also condemned the decision and have declared their resolve to join the lawyers on August 14 when they stage their next protesting rally for the restoration of the deposed judges. Their argument is that going for impeachment confers constitutional legitimacy to the president’s re-election and PCO of last November on the basis of which the judges, including Iftikhar Chaudhry, were deposed.

The other political grouping that has expressed scepticism about the intent and sincerity of the coalition parties is the APDM. The rejection has come from Jama’at-e Islami which thinks it can see through the ruse of getting out of the commitment to the deposed judges by going for impeachment first. The lawyers are engaged in heated calls for the rejection of both the coalition parties for not honouring their past commitments. Here the reference is constantly to the Murree Agreement which the PPP did not honour on the plea that it was not practicable.

Much of this maximalism is rhetorical. For instance, the Sindhi leader Mumtaz Bhutto sees the impeachment as the latest “deal” between the PPP and the PMLN under the supervision of the United States. To his mind, the impeachment plan is a “created issue”. TV channels showed people in the street divided on whether impeachment would go ahead. There were also some that didn’t want President Musharraf impeached. A good percentage thought the real issues were related to the economy, thus siding neither with the coalition parties nor with the lawyers.

Unfortunately the legal opinion is once again divided. We have seen this embarrassing phenomenon in the past months: a legal point will produce diametrically opposite juristic opinion, till the argument is finally clinched by the numbers that the lawyers’ movement can bring on to the roads. The prominent lawyers who went to advise the president think impeachment can be stalled by the Supreme Court. Mr SM Zafar thinks that the “allegation in the charge-sheet against the president could be reviewed by the Supreme Court”. Mr Fakhruddin G Ebrahim thinks that impeachment was the privilege of parliament and the Supreme Court cannot interfere.

Why do the lawyers think that restoration of the judges would have been the better option? The restoration is an end in itself because it sets down the rule that the judiciary cannot be tampered with, but it is also seen as a political instrument of President Musharraf’s ouster from power. The SC led by Iftikhar Chaudhry would have pronounced as invalid his re-election as president for another five-year term, and out he would have gone. But there was always a credible argument against this course: the PCO Court would have refused to vacate and called in the army against the police officer approaching it for execution of an executive order.

The PPP spokesman Farhatullah Babar repeated the above point on Friday, but then the embarrassing fact is that a counter-opinion says that impeachment is equally fraught with hazards. It is being speculated that one adviser to the president, Sharifuddin Pirzada, would have counselled the use of Article 58-2(b) provided the army was willing to back it up. Here the counter-argument is given that the army is no longer willing to come to the rescue of President Musharraf in this whole imbroglio and will stand aside and watch the crisis unfold from a neutral position.

There is no doubt that the restoration of the judges has been further delayed. But the intent of the PPP and the PMLN is quite clear this time around. The issue of impeachment is too big a risk to undertake simply to postpone restoration. Everyone must remember that the PMLN supports the lawyers on a point of principle but it wants to get rid of the president as an act of practical politics. It is convinced that impeachment will bring the president down, most probably as a pre-impeachment act of abdication. After that, the two parties will have to sit down and decide how the PPP leader Asif Ali Zardari will be saved from the mischief of the old Court’s annulment of the NRO. However, the PPP stands committed once again to restore the judges as per the contents of the Murree Agreement. Incidentally, the Murree Declaration did not say how the judges would be restored. *

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[Interceptor]

Resign or face the consequences, Musharraf told

Monday, August 11, 2008

By Hamid Mir

ISLAMABAD: The top PPP leadership has clearly told important Western diplomatic emissaries, who recently met the party’s Co-chairman Asif Ali Zardari in Islamabad, that if President Musharraf did not resign by Monday evening, the government would not be in a position to provide him a safe exit and he may be placed on the Exit Control List (ECL).

Deputy Chief of Mission of the US Embassy Peter Body called on Zardari along with two other important officials who had come from Washington to discuss Musharraf’s fate two days ago, competent sources told The News.

Though media reports claiming that US Ambassador Anne Patterson had met Asif Zardari proved to be incorrect as she was outside Pakistan and was expected to return late on Sunday, US Embassy sources confirmed Peter Body met the PPP leader as the charge d’Affaires in her absence.

Lou Fintor, press attache of the US embassy, told The News: “We cannot confirm or deny the meeting but we regularly meet with a variety of Pakistani officials, though we do not generally discuss the substance of these meetings.”

Diplomatic sources say the coalition leaders have cautioned Western capitals that any effort or appeal from their governments in favour of a dictator would not be welcomed. There are reports in Washington that an urgent message has been sent by the Pakistani authorities to the US president through unidentified diplomatic channels that Musharrafís name would be put on the ECL immediately after the impeachment and the new elected government would not be in a position to provide him with a safe exit.

Musharraf still has one safe option. He must resign from his office before 5pm on Monday (August 11). In that case, the media and the civil society would not press too hard to produce him in a court of law. If he is not willing to resign and the proceedings of parliament start at 5pm, he would have to face not only the impeachment motion but also trial on a number of criminal charges.

The top leaders of the new ruling coalition in Islamabad have informed some Western diplomats that they had solid evidence of corruption and embezzlement against the president and some of his close family members.

A large number of PPP members also want to investigate Musharraf for his alleged role in the assassination of Benazir Bhutto. One PPP member of the National Assembly is ready to show an e-mail of late Benazir Bhutto sent to CNN’s Wolf Blitzer that if anything happens to her, Musharraf should be held responsible.

Coalition leaders Asif Ali Zardari and Nawaz Sharif are determined to turn the most trusted friend of America in Pakistan into an example because they are sure that the Army is no longer supporting Musharraf.

They understand that if the Army is claiming to be neutral, nobody except Bush is in a position to save him. They would like to send a clear message to Bush, and may already have sent it through discreet channels, that his interference in the politics of Pakistan will spread more anti-Americanism in the only Muslim nuclear power in the world, so he should not call anyone in Pakistan to save Musharraf.

But the key question as to why US President George W Bush is refusing to take phone calls by his ‘tight buddy’ General (retd) Pervez Musharraf, making him a really angry man, is being discussed at every private sitting and every drawing room in Islamabad. The president is not just disappointed with Bush, he is also not happy with some of his old friends in uniform.

Informed insiders say Musharraf has tried to call his American buddy many times in the last few days but in vain as Bush is not available. Why Bush is not coming on the line may be obvious to all those who know how Washington changes its policies, and turns its eyes away from people who are no longer in a position to serve its interests.

They know that Musharraf would not have good news of the arrest ofOsama bin Laden or Mullah Omer when he calls. He would only have some bad news about himself and would want to tell Bush that Al-Qaeda, the Taliban and the ruling coalition in Pakistan have united against him. He would ask Bush to help him in the name of the war against terror but the lines to the US president are not responding.

A prominent leader of the pro-Musharraf Pakistan Muslim League-Q disclosed that Pervez Musharraf was disappointed not only with Bush but also with the Army leadership which is not coming out openly to rescue their “supreme commander” from the “dirty hands of ‘bloody civilians’.î

PML-Q sources claimed that initially Musharraf was thinking of resigning from office and wanted to become the president of the PML-Q. A lady member of the National Assembly started campaigning within the party three days ago that Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain should resign from the party presidentship and offer to make Musharraf head of the party which was actually created in 2002 by Musharraf with the help of the ISI. A big majority of the PML-Q leaders rejected this proposal and advised Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain to stay away from Musharraf who was no longer an asset but a liability.

Another friend of Musharraf recently proposed to him to join the Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) of Altaf Hussain. This party is capable of providing him some political cover. Some of his close relatives are already reported to be MQM members.

This MQM link of Musharraf was reinforced by Benazir Bhutto as well when she wrote in her autobiography: “I first encountered Musharraf when he acted as a Turkish interpreter during visits by the Turkish military. I declined to make him my military secretary. We initially refused him a promotion because of his suspected links with the MQM. The final time I recall meeting with him was the most important, when in 1996 he presented to me a war scenario for Kashmir.”

One thing is clear that the main strength of Musharraf was not his enlightened moderation but his military uniform and after taking off this uniform he is now a burden for everyone. It was Musharraf who assigned General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani to get in touch with Benazir Bhutto two years ago when Kayani was DG of the ISI.

Kayani realised soon that the involvement of Army officers in politics was not good for the institution and for the country. Though Musharraf also said the same thing but his actions always contradicted his words.

He is no more Army chief but he is still living in the Army House of Rawalpindi. He has declared it as the President’s Camp Office. He is continuously meeting leaders of the PML-Q there even after their humiliating defeat in the February elections. He never respected the verdict of the people expressed through the ballot. His “forced” stay in the Army House is generally not liked by many Army officers.

Many officers think that Musharraf’s meetings with anti-government politicians in the Army House are meant to give the impression that the Army is still with him, which is not a fact.

According to reliable sources, Army circles have informally sent messages to Musharraf that his time was over and he must resign now in the “supreme national interest”.

Many Army officers support the non-political approach of their new chief and think that Musharraf was their leader for eight years due to his rank and position, not because of his person. As he has lost the rank, he must leave the position of president.

One of Musharraf’s close friends, who is also an important officer, recently advised him privately that though he may still be very popular in Washington and New Delhi but he is no more popular in his own country and now is the time that he must resign as the Army could not support him for another five years. Army officers want a total de-politicisation of their institution and want to contribute to the making of a new democratic Pakistan.

This is what I am trying to convey, he has no chances, by tommorow in effect he should resign or he is to be tried infront of the Parliament and the PPP wont get in the way of PML-N when that happens.

 

[Flintlock]

Once the civilians came to power, it was apparent that Musharraf wasn't going to last. I'm surprised that he managed to stick on for so long.

Now if only Pakistan had a functioning Supreme Court....

 

[blain2]

I am simply amazed at the idiotic reporting by Hamid Mir. Its like he is telling someone his favorite story...short of facts, its filled with unfounded claims about President being exasperated and having his calls go unheeded to the President of the US...when was the last time Hamid Mir went to journalism school? (he probably never went)! When a useless freak such as Nawaz Sharif can be bailed out by the King of Saudi Arabia, Musharraf has plenty more friends all around who can easily make these two idiots (Zardari and NS) change their minds.

In any case, we will see what he has decided by tomorrow. I think he will fight it out. As much as they PPP-PML(N) nexus and their media cohorts are trying to propagate that there is nothing but doom and gloom for Musharraf, I think things are not that clear. On many claims in the impeachment, the President can simply get the Supreme Court to hear them out (I understand that impeachment itself cannot be challenged, however specific counts can be, as the President can say that he is not getting a fair deal in the impeachment proceedings). Just by referring some of these things to the supreme court, things can be prolonged thus taking the steam out of this rush to impeach. Secondly, Pakistan is the land of lotas..so don't count out last minute surprises like umrah trips etc.

 

[Awesome]

Resign or face the consequences, Musharraf told




This is what I am trying to convey, he has no chances, by tommorow in effect he should resign or he is to be tried infront of the Parliament and the PPP wont get in the way of PML-N when that happens.

Of course but if he doesn't get impeached, then PPP should not cry foul when he throws the curtains on them.

It'll be all fair game.

 

[Interceptor]

Of course but if he doesn't get impeached, then PPP should not cry foul when he throws the curtains on them.

It'll be all fair game.

And Vice a Versa.



What if he resigns? Well whatever is going to happen its going to be laid out to day.

 

[Interceptor]

Once the civilians came to power, it was apparent that Musharraf wasn't going to last. I'm surprised that he managed to stick on for so long.

Now if only Pakistan had a functioning Supreme Court....

The rope around his neck tightened each day, his overstay has paid him very little bounty.

The impeachment clause does not in effect fall under the courts, its falls under the Parliament, therefore he could gain no grounds from appealing to them, the courts will take his appeal if one is given when he is Civilian.

Btw. What is the Indian perspective on Musharraf's Impeachment?