Immoral shameless conspiracy based Aurat march

[Longhorn]

Do these issues exist in our society or not? If we make a visible effort to appease the crowd then we have justification for stopping that which is considered haram by us as Muslims. The problems exist in our society as we have conveniently kept some of our age old Hindu customs in spite of being muslims. This is a reaction to all the injustices. The time is to mend fences not to aggravate the situation. Give the women their just rights and then ask them to abide by what is right. Life is always about responsibilities and privileges. You cannot just hand them the responsibilities but not give them the privileges. This is all I have to say on the matter. Wisdom rather than force is required here.
A

Thanks for highlighting the hypocrisy of the status quo.
Conservative men are using the argument of religious morality to deprive women of the rights Islam has given them and men, for their own selfish reasons, have deprived them of.

 

[SecularNationalist]

No, I said (read again) How could you equate the two when 1 (period) being natural while pornography is not!

Now you are really forcing me to talk what I was trying to avoid talking. But let's talk .
Ok pornography is not natural but sex between husband and wife is natural or in general sexual desires and feelings too are natural so that we should now publicly start discussing all those sexual details ? Infront of all genders on public forums where everyone women,elders and kids can see such vulgar discussions?
Would you personally talk about your periods infront of your father and brother? Or if not why would you recommend that for others?
Though as said earlier I am not that narrow minded and discussing it where it matters or in private groups where age and gender differences can be controlled ,for the sake of educating people is acceptable.
But publicly not at all acceptable.
Here we are talking about in the context of pakistani society and culture ,not what can happen or happens in the west or where you are living right now.
I cannot get what's so difficult for you to understand here.

 

[Longhorn]

Is it not true that the answer lies some where in the middle as in all things. So keep the conspiracies theories aside and see what the issues for women really are.
A. Equal social rights to work and respect in the office. Do they get that?? So perhaps laws guaranteeing women no discrimination in the office and pay wise would be a legitimate outcome of this.
B. Safety at home. In asian societies women are beaten with no one who listens to them, even if they complain. In UK if your wife or even you report domestic violence it necessaitates a visit by the police to your home. Can a Pakistani woman expect the same rights? Perhaps formulation of rights and responsibilities may be helpful.
C the right of A WOMAN TO MARRIAGE. I understand there is a Wali needed for a marriage to be enacted but with the current archaic trneds should women not have the right to dictate who they marry as long as it is within the remit of Islam. So where do the Zaat Paat and Biradiry come into this? These are questions that need to be asked. Can we promulgate laws whereby if the woman decides she wants to marry someone other than who her parents dictateshe has the right to go to court s and the courts assign a Wali and marry the couple. MPOREMPORTANTLY the court assures the safety of the couple from harm by the girls parents/Brothers.
D. Karo Kari: Do people not agree that this is a heinous crime and the person deserving of the treatment is the abductorather than the poor abductee. It is akin to cutting off ones own foot to spite your enemy. Do we have actionable laws which are promulgated and enforced to assure women they can consider themselves safe from this evil.
E. Marriage to Quran and other evil practices to avoid giving the women their inheritence. Do readers feel this s right and how should this be prevented.
F: The woman's right to have a home of her own rather than be stuffed in her In Laws home, Beleieve it or not it is the right of a woman to have a home of her own.
See it is very easy to blame others but when one looks at the underlying problems one has to accept that this is a reaction of decades if not centuries of injustice metted out to women. Is this not a reaction to these and instead onf malligning everyone if one were to sit down and see what hte issues are one may find a moderate path.
The fact remains that the society needs to change and adapt to the newer generations who want to impose their own thinking on how things aught to be. While "Mera Jism meri Marzi" sounds a bit crass but if one gives the women their just rights as assured in Islam we will avoid half the evils that are brought forward by nefarious designs and by shady actors to highlight a situation which is inherently unjust to begin with. Unless you as a society clear the decks of all evil you do not have the right to dictate what a segment of the society does. Perhaps in their very crass way is the depiction of the inherent gaping holesa in our handling of our women.
A

Your posts contain far too much common sense and truth for PDF.
I'm afraid, no one is prepared to listen to common sense.

Now you are really forcing me to talk what I was trying to avoid talking. But let's talk .
Ok pornography is not natural but sex between husband and wife is natural or in general sexual desires and feelings too are natural so that we should now publicly start discussing all those sexual details ? Infront of all genders on public forums where everyone women,elders and kids can see such vulgar discussions?
Would you personally talk about your periods infront of your father and brother? Or if not why would you recommend that for others?
Though as said earlier I am not that narrow minded and discussing it where it matters or in private groups where age and gender differences can be controlled ,for the sake of educating people is acceptable.
But publicly not at all acceptable.
Here we are talking about in the context of pakistani society and culture ,not what can happen or happens in the west or where you are living right now.
I cannot get what's so difficult for you to understand here.

Girls who discuss all matters with their fathers are the most confident, secure, women on the planet.
That is exactly what is lacking in our society.

 

[Mav3rick]

Is it not true that the answer lies some where in the middle as in all things. So keep the conspiracies theories aside and see what the issues for women really are.
A. Equal social rights to work and respect in the office. Do they get that?? So perhaps laws guaranteeing women no discrimination in the office and pay wise would be a legitimate outcome of this.

No, they get preferential treatment!

1. Women are allowed parking over men, when there is limited parking
2. Women are allowed to leave at 5:00 sharp while men have to continue until 7-8
3. Women are allowed to enter Lifts and Offices, Men will give them preference and way
4. Women will get leaves at will whereas Men often have to beg for even earned leaves
5. Generally, Women will get their way over and above men simply because men give preference to women
6. Women will then compete with men equally over Annual Increment and Promotions, may even get preference
7. Women will get picked for trainings more
8. Women will get jobs on quota when they are unable to compete on merit etc.
9. Women will always get support on cases of harassment where men will be treated guilty even before proof is presented.

The above is all from practical work environment as opposed to stories of harassment or abuse. I will also give an example on point 9 above, a friend of mine was working for a big nation wide company and was accused of sexual harassment. My friend was exonerated thanks to the CCTV cameras which proved beyond doubt that the woman was lying. However, in the 2-3 days before the commission examined the evidence and exonerate him, the entire office condemned my friend as a harasser. It was never the same even after he was proved innocent; he later on demanded that the woman be fired from her position but she was instead asked to resign which she did. He also eventually resigned in disgust with the HR.

There are always 2 sides to every story; and there are genuine cases where women are harassed, there is undivided support all across for women in such cases.

B. Safety at home. In asian societies women are beaten with no one who listens to them, even if they complain. In UK if your wife or even you report domestic violence it necessaitates a visit by the police to your home. Can a Pakistani woman expect the same rights? Perhaps formulation of rights and responsibilities may be helpful.

There are even cases of women beating their husbands. Both are wrong! Domestic violence is not acceptable and the Father/Brother of any such women will make sure that the woman is protected.

When in doubt, refer to Shariat, Sunnah and the Quran.

C the right of A WOMAN TO MARRIAGE. I understand there is a Wali needed for a marriage to be enacted but with the current archaic trneds should women not have the right to dictate who they marry as long as it is within the remit of Islam.So where do the Zaat Paat and Biradiry come into this? These are questions that need to be asked. Can we promulgate laws whereby if the woman decides she wants to marry someone other than who her parents dictateshe has the right to go to court s and the courts assign a Wali and marry the couple. MPOREMPORTANTLY the court assures the safety of the couple from harm by the girls parents/Brothers.

Wali or no Wali, the woman must give her consent to marriage. Forced marriage is neither allowed by law nor religion.

D. Karo Kari: Do people not agree that this is a heinous crime and the person deserving of the treatment is the abductorather than the poor abductee. It is akin to cutting off ones own foot to spite your enemy. Do we have actionable laws which are promulgated and enforced to assure women they can consider themselves safe from this evil.

Karo Kari is neither allowed by law nor religion.

E. Marriage to Quran and other evil practices to avoid giving the women their inheritence. Do readers feel this s right and how should this be prevented.

This is gross injustice to the victim. Religion is specifically strong on the rights of widows and orphans, the weak ones in general.

F: The woman's right to have a home of her own rather than be stuffed in her In Laws home, Beleieve it or not it is the right of a woman to have a home of her own.
See it is very easy to blame others but when one looks at the underlying problems one has to accept that this is a reaction of decades if not centuries of injustice metted out to women. Is this not a reaction to these and instead onf malligning everyone if one were to sit down and see what hte issues are one may find a moderate path.
The fact remains that the society needs to change and adapt to the newer generations who want to impose their own thinking on how things aught to be. While "Mera Jism meri Marzi" sounds a bit crass but if one gives the women their just rights as assured in Islam we will avoid half the evils that are brought forward by nefarious designs and by shady actors to highlight a situation which is inherently unjust to begin with. Unless you as a society clear the decks of all evil you do not have the right to dictate what a segment of the society does. Perhaps in their very crass way is the depiction of the inherent gaping holesa in our handling of our women.

A

It is not just about crass sounding placards or statements but rather the purposeful and incitement inducing use of dual meaning sentences which benefit no-one. There are many other perfectly acceptable list of demands that women could have chosen which would have been supported by a large majority of Pakistanis such as:

1. Right to Education
2. Right in Will
3. Right to marriage of choice etc.

and so on.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Listen to her

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=221554669237761

 

[WebMaster]

Girls who discuss all matters with their fathers are the most confident, secure, women on the planet.
That is exactly what is lacking in our society.

Agreed.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Listen to her

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=218584976193219

 

[Dubious]

Now you are really forcing me to talk what I was trying to avoid talking. But let's talk .
Ok pornography is not natural but sex between husband and wife is natural or in general sexual desires and feelings too are natural so that we should now publicly start discussing all those sexual details ? Infront of all genders on public forums where everyone women,elders and kids can see such vulgar discussions?

I am not saying start discussing it in public but allow it in homes.

Lets put it this way. I rather tell my daughter about these issues than her having to learn it from a complete stranger. I rather tell my son this issues than him learning from wrong people! It is more to do with family safety to allow it to be talked coz afterall mothers ARE the 1st teachers!

 

[Trango Towers]

Listen to her

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=221554669237761

Disgusting media.

 

[SecularNationalist]

I am not saying start discussing it in public but allow it in homes.

Lets put it this way. I rather tell my daughter about these issues than her having to learn it from a complete stranger. I rather tell my son this issues than him learning from wrong people! It is more to do with family safety to allow it to be talked coz afterall mothers ARE the 1st teachers!

So now you agree with me . As I said earlier mothers and daughters can talk on such issues and infact they should talk.
That vulgar banner was in public not in home.

 

[Trango Towers]

So now you agree with me . As I said earlier mothers and daughters can talk on such issues and infact they should talk.
That vulgar banner was in public not in home.

There are many stupid men and women out there that have hijacked this march. The slogan met jism mere mersey has its place but it can be interpreted in may ways and has clearly been hijacked. Additionally I have seen on social media some of the vulgarity some of the ladies are spewing and that's plain wrong. Equally the molvis stoning peaceful marchers is incorrect. If we look at the 9 points that this march is supposed to champion then I think we will all agree that they are very valid. We all have mothers sisters daughter and hence we want them to be free happy and equal in every aspect of life. From education to work marriage and motherhood.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=118946043034465

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=230387378356594

 

[Dubious]

So now you agree with me . As I said earlier mothers and daughters can talk on such issues and infact they should talk.
That vulgar banner was in public not in home.

I said mothers should ALSO talk to SONS...IF daughters getting information from others is not good, same should be for sons!

 

[SecularNationalist]

I said mothers should ALSO talk to SONS...IF daughters getting information from others is not good, same should be for sons!

Well I would feel very uncomfortable talking with my mother on such issues. Though cannot say how others would feel.
And as a boy I can assure in Pakistan we can get some really good information in ample amount from our other male freinds Everyone one of us is a walking encyclopedia