Truth or not, the reader has their mind to conclude. Readers has seen enough behaviour of both of you and your friend.
Your tone and language are for all to see.
Illegal Chinese Logging is destroying Africa's forests
- Thread starter denel
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Your tone and language are for all to see.
Of course typical bots - anything is western propaganda. Come and see what is happening right nextdoor.
Africa needs to throw these folks out.
FEATURES
Chinese looting Mozambique's forests
Chines businessmen are looting the hardwood forests in countries like Mozambique, Congo and Russio. As a result, these countries have lost millions of dollars in tax revenue and their tropical hardwood forests might disappear within just a few years.
Nito Silva wipes the wood shavings from his sweaty face while his chainsaw still growls. “I log about 40 trees per day,” he says, leaning on a tree he has just cut. The 45-year-old Mozambican, dressed in a grubby T-shirt, torn trousers and scuffed shoes, cuts trees illegally – not wearing a helmet, ear protection or safety glasses. Hundreds of tree stumps around him are proof of his hard labour.
Silva used to be a farmer growing cassava, corn and beans. Eight years ago, Chinese businesspeople visited the area and offered him a high salary for cutting down trees. They lent him a chainsaw and now come by weekly to pick up the trunks by truck, taking a bumpy 60km dirt road.
He knows what he’s doing is illegal. “But what else can I do? When I was a farmer I earned almost nothing and I have to feed seven children.”
He and his two helpers earn between 160 and 300 Mozambican meticais (between R60 and R100) a tree, depending on the type of wood. The Chinese sell the rare exotic hardwood trees such as chanate, ebony, monzo (leadwood), panga panga, pau preto and wenge for a hundred times as much back in their home country. Still, Silva’s income isn’t bad in a country like Mozambique, where more than half of the population lives below the poverty line and monthly salaries rarely exceed 3 000 meticais (just over R1 000).
Other Mozambican loggers earn less. The 28-year-old Pedro Abilio, for example, receives 2 500 meticais (about R900) for each truck of 80 logs he delivers. He loses some of this money because he officially works for a Mozambican intermediary. The wood, however, is handled directly by the Chinese, who pick up the logs every week using seven trucks that come all the way to Abilio’s remote village in the middle of the forest in Tete province.
Like Silva and Abilio, many Mozambicans are illegally logging for Chinese companies. Often, in the beginning, the Chinese lend them the money to buy equipment such as a chainsaw, locking them into dependency and forcing them to continue cutting to be able to pay off their debts. By buying from individual Mozambicans, the Chinese avoid the high costs of obtaining a logging licence and the obligation to replant trees.
“If Chinese companies would respect the rules, they would only make about 10% profit,” says Ana Alonso (65), a Spanish writer who has been campaigning against illegal logging in Mozambique for more than 20 years. According to her, bribing officials instead of paying taxes leads to a 50% increase in profits.
MOVING TREES
“If we get pulled over by the police, we give them some money so we can continue our journey,” a smiling “Mr Huo” says as he introduces himself. The 53-year-old Chinese businessperson, who looks like a cowboy in a green camouflage jacket and a grey hat, is the boss of Yixing Madeira, one of the many Chinese timber companies located along the main road to Beira.
On our way to this port city, we pass dozens of trucks piled with logs, often driven by Chinese businesspeople. Tens of thousands of tree trunks, heaped into high mountains, sit waiting on the compounds to be shipped to China, revealing the enormous rate at which the Chinese are emptying the Mozambican primeval forests.
DEFORESTATION
Illegal deforestation is happening in a similar way in countries such as Congo-Brazzaville, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Guinea-Bissau, Cameroon, Gambia, Madagascar, Russia, Indonesia, Myanmar, Laos and Vietnam.
According to Greenpeace, this deforestation will affect not only global warming but also the amount of rainfall.
“Deforestation in the Amazon and Central Africa was directly causing reduced rainfall in the United States Midwest during the growing season,” Greenpeace states in a recent report. “And complete deforestation of the African Congo Basin is predicted to intensify the West African monsoon, while increasing temperatures of between 2?C and 4?C and reducing rainfall by up to 50% in the entire region,” the organisation adds.
According to Huo, 120 wood-filled containers measuring 20m3 each depart every week from Beira to China. Because since 2007 many types of first-class wood are no longer allowed to be exported as tree trunks, and have to be processed in Mozambique to create more jobs, Huo simply cuts the logs in half using a machine.
“This way more wood can fit into the container as well,” he chuckles while he offers us bottles of mineral water and lights a cigarette.
STRIP AND MOVE ON
We are not allowed to take pictures of the Mozambican workers who are unloading the trucks full of logs that have just arrived, using a forklift truck.
Huo says candidly that he prefers to buy wood from individual Mozambicans because this allows him “to make more profit”. It doesn’t bother his conscience. “All rangers, police officers and politicians are criminals over here,” he says.
He relates that rangers showed up on his doorstep recently, offering to sell him illegally logged trees. Huo laughs loudly when we ask what he’s going to do when there’s no wood left in Mozambique. “Move to the next country where there’s still wood, obviously.”
Huo is totally convinced that Mozambique will be stripped of all its hardwood forests “within just a few years”.
DEATH THREATS
“While this ecological disaster is taking place in Mozambique, the international community doesn’t seem to care much,” Alonso says.
She’s convinced that the deforestation will negatively influence global warming. “Although less well known than the forests in the Amazon region, these forests also make up the lungs of this Earth.”
But leaving the hardwood forests completely untouched would be impossible, according to her. “There are people living there. They have to support themselves.”
That’s why, since the 1990s, she has run a forest of 60 000 hectares in which she and her workers harvest and replant trees in a controlled manner.
“That’s the best way to protect a tropical hardwood forest,” she says.
Although Alonso pays her taxes, she alleges that the Mozambican government tries to block what she is doing “in all possible ways”. She claims that her forest licence, for example, was revoked for unclear reasons in 2010 and she only got it back after a two-year battle. She has also had to employ private security guards since receiving anonymous death threats.
MOZAMBICAN AUTHORITIES DID NOT RESPOND TO REQUESTS FOR COMMENT
“Several Mozambican politicians and officials are quickly becoming rich thanks to the Chinese bribes, while the inhabitants of the forest remain desperately poor,” Alonso sighs.
According to Mozambican law, local communities should receive 20% of the tax charged on Alonso’s logged trees. But according to her, this money doesn’t flow back to them at all.
‘BRIBERY AND CORRUPTION’
The British Environmental Investigation Agency also blames corrupt Mozambican politicians for the illegal logging. In a recently published report, the research institute quotes Chinese timber traders explaining to undercover researchers how to get assistance from Mozambican MPs and the country’s current minister of agriculture, José Pacheco, who has been tasked with counteracting illegal logging.
PACHECO REFUSED TO COMMENT ON THE REPORT
The agency calculated that 93% of all logging in Mozambique has been illegal in recent years, making use of Mozambican export and Chinese import numbers. Most of the hardwood was shipped to China. China itself banned commercial logging in 1998.
Since 2013, Mozambique has been China’s biggest wood supplier on the African continent. Because of illegal timber exports, the country has lost about €113?million in tax revenues since 2007, the agency calculated – money that could have financed Mozambique’s national forest programme for 30 years.
The agriculture ministry does sometimes fine Chinese timber firms, but to Alonso actions like these are nothing but symbolic politics. “The fines are a joke compared to the millions that the illegal businesspeople make. Civil society should take action and shouldn’t accept this any longer.”
Local environmental organisation Forum Terra leads by example. It makes communities aware of their rights and helps them to establish committees to prevent businesspeople from bribing local leaders.
They are also urged to pull over trucks carrying illegally harvested timber. “They should call the local authorities; half of the fine should be paid directly to the local community,” Forum Terra’s Manuel Passar explains.
Meanwhile, illegal logger Silva has been noticing the significant decrease in the number of valuable hardwood trees in his area. He doesn’t really care though, he says, while pouring new petrol into his chainsaw. “When all trees are gone, I will burn everything down to create farmland and will plant corn and pineapples.”
Logging, whether legal or illegal, are done by locals, with the permit (or not) of local governments.
If the governments there cannot control the illegal deforestation, it is not the fault of the Chinese. It is not unlike condemning the Chinese (or WB, or IMF) providing loans to African governments for African chronic corruption.
Stop propaganda and stop blaming everyone else except yourselves (not unlike the Indian).
khanmubashir
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Basically like many westerners‘They Are Finishing the Trees’: Chinese Companies and Namibian Elites Make Millions Illegally Logging the Last Rosewoods
‘They Are Finishing the Trees’: Chinese Companies and Namibian Elites Make Millions Illegally Logging the Last Rosewoods
Jacobus Oma looked sadly at the stockpile of several hundred ancient rosewood logs he had just helped to load onto a Chinese-owned truck in northeastern Namibia. Some were centuries old, so large they dwarfed his small frame.www.occrp.org
‘They Are Finishing the Trees’: Chinese Companies and Namibian Elites Make Millions Illegally Logging the Last Rosewoods
Credit: John Grobler
by John Grobler
18 December 2020
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Jacobus Oma looked sadly at the stockpile of several hundred ancient rosewood logs he had just helped to load onto a Chinese-owned truck in northeastern Namibia. Some were centuries old, so large they dwarfed his small frame.
“The children will never see trees like this in our lives again,” he said, recalling how the rosewood’s seed pods were traditionally a vital source of food for indigenous San people like himself during the dry season.
Oma had accompanied the teams that felled the trees earlier this year on the boundary of Khaudum National Park in Namibia’s Okavango region, a part of the San’s ancestral lands.
Back in Nhoma, a sparse collection of buildings on the southwestern edge of the park where he lives with his family, Oma told OCCRP he helped load the prized hardwoods for one of the Chinese-fronted companies that dominate the local illegal logging trade here.
“I am not being paid. I am only helping out with the timber loading here,” he said, explaining that he had hoped at least to get something to eat.
Oma’s ripped top and pants were smeared with black stains from moving the wood, some of which had been charred by fires set by local farmers in the hope of rejuvenating the land.
Credit: John GroblerA pile of hardwood blocks — squared off trunks with bark still attached — at a depot in Nhoma.
The logs are among thousands of protected trees that have been illegally cut down on land leased as “settlement farms” to political elites and war veterans by Namibia’s ruling South West Africa People’s Organisation (SWAPO) party.
OCCRP found more than a dozen stockpiles of timber along the routes the loggers use, ranging from hundreds to thousands of logs or blocks — squared off trunks with bark still attached. All appeared to be from three protected hardwood species — African rosewood, Zambezi teak, and Kiaat.
A forestry expert described the stockpiles, all run by two Chinese-fronted companies, as evidence of “industrial wood mining.”
Despite a moratorium on harvesting these prized hardwoods in Namibia since November 2018, and a ban on trading raw timber since early August, the plunder has continued. On two recent road trips through the Okavango and Zambezi regions, together covering 6,600 kilometers, an OCCRP reporter saw not a single mature African rosewood tree left standing.
The farm leaseholders could have made as much as US$1.5 million per year from selling the wood. But the true winners appear to be the Chinese-fronted companies that control the trade, with timber valued at many millions of dollars exported in just months, according to a government official. Forestry department data and figures from wood brokers on the ground indicate that these exports are declared at just a small fraction of their value, leading to vast sums being lost in uncollected tax revenues.
SWAPO did not respond to a request for comment.
Credit: Edin Pasovic/OCCRPA map of some of the key points in the illegal logging trade in Namibia in the northeastern region of Okavango, also spelled Kavango, which is divided into Kavango West and Kavango East. (Click to enlarge.)
‘They are Finishing the Trees’
A reporter visited the Okavango logging region twice, in October and November. Posing as a prospective wood buyer, he found evidence of illegal logging at every turn, from sawmills operating on the settlement farms to the stockpiles of often-fresh timber along the route.
Though no new three-month harvesting permits have been issued since late 2018, local wood brokers assured the undercover reporter that the paperwork would not be a problem.
“You leave it with me, bra,” said one broker in the regional capital of Rundu, a fast-growing frontier city on the Angolan border, who gave his name as Lobo.
Some farmers said they had plentiful Kiaat trees on their land just waiting to be felled. But everywhere, the reporter was told that rosewood trees, which have grown in the region for some 700 years, are now scarce.
“They are finishing the trees now,” said one worker who was running a stockpile for a Chinese company in Tam-Tam, in the middle of the logging region. He claimed the 850 blocks stored at the depot, which had been harvested in June, were from the last mature rosewood trees in the area.
The harvesting of hardwoods in Namibia is often massively wasteful. Loggers tend to use only the cores of the trunks of mature trees, ignoring regulations aimed at preventing uncontrolled large-scale harvesting.
OCCRP saw telltale signs that workers on the Okavango settlement farms are using the same methods as in other areas, including big branches left discarded at harvesting sites and the stumps of huge trees.
Stumps of trees left on one of the Okavango resettlement farms.
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The timber from the settlement farms was taken to stockpiles, where it was loaded onto trucks mostly bound for Walvis Bay port. Transport permit records at forestry department offices showed it was destined for buyers in China, Vietnam, and South Africa. Most of the addresses listed for the exporting companies in the transport permits appeared to be false, leading to empty fields or residential apartment blocks.
An internal auditors’ report on the logging by Namibia’s Ministry of Agriculture, Water and Forestry (MEFT) estimated that around 32,000 logs or blocks of protected hardwood — equivalent to around 210 truckloads — were moved from Okavango to the port of Walvis Bay between November 2018 and March 2019.
Of that, some 22,000 were stored in warehouses and containers near the port, while “about 10,000 blocks were exported to China and Vietnam,” said the report, obtained by OCCRP.
Namibia is a signatory to the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES), which banned international trade in rosewoods in 2017 in part as a response to rising demand for red-wood furniture in Asia.
But the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime noted in its latest World Wildlife Crime report, released this year, that the timber industry is inconsistently regulated.
“Unlike illicit drugs, timber is not sold into illegal markets but rather fed into legal industries where its illegal origin is obscured,” it read. “Timber harvested illegally in one country may be legal to import in another.”
In Namibia, all indigenous hardwood tree species are nominally protected by the Forest Act of 2001, which was designed to prevent uncontrolled logging. But in 2016, Chinese wildcat loggers started shipping illicit timber from Angola, Zambia, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo through a Namibian port. And by the following year, the rosewood gold rush had reached Namibia itself, starting in the Caprivi State forest in Zambezi Region before spreading to the settlement farms of Kavango East.
Credit: John GroblerA pile of wooden planks left abandoned on one of the Okavango settlement farms.
Political Plunder
Around 500 settlement farms in the region, each covering some 2,500 hectares, were handed to war veterans and political elites starting in 2005. The recipients included the current Minister of Home Affairs, Immigration, Safety and Security, Frans Kapofi; a former governor of the Okavango region; the current mayor of Rundu; and several senior civil servants. They did not respond to requests for comment.
Apollonius Kanyinga, who worked at the Ministry of Lands and Resettlement at the time and is now the MEFT’s director for Okavango and Caprivi, secured five farms for himself and his family in a block close to Khaudum National Park.
Kanyinga insisted that he had nothing to do with the fact that his cousin received a farm next to his own two farms. He admitted he was then working for the Lands Ministry, which allocated the farms, but denied he was a deputy director.
The poor soil in the region means most of the land is unsuitable for growing crops. And because the farms lie north of the “Red Line” — a veterinary cordon meant to stop the spread of foot-and-mouth disease across Namibia — they also cannot be used to rear livestock for trade.
That leaves the hardwoods as the only resources of commercial value on the land.
Screenshots from social media posts showing large dump trucks imported by Chinese companies, and used for illegal logging.
For 26 years, the difficult terrain and local laws protected these trees, the last old-growth rosewoods of the African teak forests left along the banks of the Omuramba-Omatako, an ancient river that is now only a seasonal floodplain.
But in 2017, Forestry Director Joseph Hailwa decided the laws no longer applied to Chinese logging in the Caprivi State Forest and the Okavango Region for own-use permits. With the arrival of Chinese dump trucks that could handle the drive, this meant the farms were open for business.
Old Trees, New Trucks
One key reason Okavango’s forest was left relatively untouched for decades was the difficulty of driving through the near-impenetrable terrain of the Kalahari sands to reach them.
Then several Chinese construction companies that are active in northern Namibia started importing 4x6 dump trucks for construction projects duty-free. Photos posted on social media show none of them had any registration plates, or even temporary licenses.
In October 2018, Hou Xuecheng, the largest of the Chinese timber speculators in the Okavango region, who had a long rap sheet for illegally trading in wildlife, also started posting pictures of these trucks on Facebook.
It’s unclear how they ended up in Hou’s hands, but by late 2019 — a year after a moratorium on new harvesting was issued — he was using the trucks for his illegal logging operations.
A former manager at his company described how they ran the trucks over the sands, back axles stripped down to single tires, loading at least 14 trucks in a week from the settlement farms around Kawe. The trucks’ distinctive deep, wide tracks could be found all over the Kavango East farms.
By 2018, the plunder had started. Pictures showing truck after overloaded truck leaving the area caused a national outcry, prompting Environmental Commissioner Teofilus Nghitila to stop issuing new harvesting permits that November.
But the logging has continued. The internal MEFT report found that leaseholders had pressed on, with nearly 400 licenses to fell 600-1,200 trees per farm being handed out by Forestry Director Joseph Hailwa, despite not having the legally required environmental certificate.
Hailwa did not reply to a request for comment.
As the auditors pointed out, because the settlement farms are still technically state land, none of them have the right to sell the trees for profit.
“The trees are currently being treated as if they are the private property of the respective farmers,” the report said. “The trees that were harvested by small-scale commercial farmers are state-owned resources and as such should be used to benefit the broader community in the communal areas.”
The report estimated that Namibian farmers could generate an income of around N$24 million ($1.5 million) per year from selling the rosewood trees.
But it seems the Chinese traders are the ones making the real money. Namibia’s Minister of Environment, Forestry and Tourism, Pohamba Shifeta, said timber speculators exported some 75,000 tons of wood valued at N$94 million, (US$6.1 million) or $65 per cubic meter, in the first two months of 2019 alone.
South African hardwood specialist André Swanepoel said the speculators’ earnings are likely far higher, as they tend to under-declare the value of the wood to avoid taxes. He said rosewood would sell for at least $500 per cubic meter on the open market.
Official export data obtained by OCCRP shows Chinese traders declared almost 14,700 tons of rosewood exports between 2017 and 2019 at a total value of around $51,000, less than one percent of the more than $7.35 million the timber would have been worth at $500 a cubic meter.
Shifeta told lawmakers in October that the plunder was possible because of the legal “gray area” around what constitutes processed timber, which can still be exported, and pledged to tighten regulations. But Dr. John Pallett, who is leading a review of the laws for MEFT, said the problem is in the enforcement of these rules — or lack of it.
President Hage Geingob and the ruling SWAPO party have taken full advantage. At a rally in Okavango three weeks before the general election in November 2019, he gave permission for farmers to sell any hardwood they had already harvested, despite a ban on transport permits imposed a year before.
In the presidential election, where Geingob faced a stiff challenge from newcomer Panduleni Itula, he won 83.5 percent of the presidential vote in the Okavango region compared to 35 percent in the capital region, helping him avoid a runoff.
MEFT did not reply to requests for comment for this story. Neither did Geingob’s office or SWAPO.
Credit: John GroblerThese logs, harvested in the Caprivi State forest, are marked with the telltale blue spray paint that shows they belong to Chinese businessman Hou Xuecheng.
Who’s Hou?
Two Chinese-fronted companies appear to control the trade in illegal hardwood coming out of Okavango.
Little is known about one of them. But the other is New Force Logistics, run by Hou Xuecheng (also known as Jose Hou), a Chinese immigrant with a long criminal record.
Hou has made a career out of skirting the edges of the law since his arrival in Namibia in 2001. A decade later, he moved into the illegal timber trade, harvesting in neighboring Zambia and Angola and moving hundreds of truckloads across their poorly controlled southern borders into Namibia for export to China. When Zambia finally called a halt to the uncontrolled harvesting by early 2017, more than a thousand trucks loaded with timber had been impounded.
Hou Xuecheng has a history of trading in banned wildlife — and getting away with it.
He says he arrived in Namibia in 2001 and in January 2005 reportedly married a Namibian woman to gain residency. His former Namibian wife later told police and the media that Hou abandoned her after she was injured in a car accident, and claimed he tried to have her killed so he could access their marriage certificate to buy a vegetable farm.
Court documents and interviews show Hou quickly became embroiled in Namibia’s criminal underworld, with multiple arrests for bribery, theft of cattle and solar panels, and possession of ivory and crocodile skins.
In 2011, he was arrested in China for attempting to smuggle 12 kilograms of ivory into the country. He fled China and returned to Namibia, possibly on a new passport.
Hou has so far been able to avoid prosecution on charges of possessing ivory and crocodile skin by gaming the legal system, including changing lawyers just before court appearances or appointing advocates who don’t turn up.
John Grobler provided a statement to Namibia’s Anti-Corruption Commission based on reporting he carried out for OCCRP in 2017, which may have contributed to this investigation.
In November 2017, Namibia’s Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) started investigating allegations of corruption leveled at Forestry Director Hailwa and Hou, confiscating truckloads of his illicitly harvested timber from Caprivi. But Hou successfully challenged the seizures in court and the charges were dropped.
The ACC declined to explain why, despite repeated requests for comment.
Much of the timber was again forfeited to the state after Hou’s foreman, Li Weichao, was convicted of illegal harvesting and fined N$20,000 ($1,300). As of mid-October 2020, thousands of logs were still lying abandoned in Hou’s former lumberyard.
Hou turned his full attention to the settlement farms in Okavango, focusing on the Kavango East region and the last remaining old trees spread out among them.
It was a New Force Logistics truck that a reporter saw Jacobus Oma, the San worker, help load with rosewood logs at the depot in Nhoma. From there, said the truck’s driver, the wood was set to be delivered to a sawmill 550 kilometers away in the regional capital Rundu.
The mill used to be a state-owned enterprise. Now, however, it appears to be taking delivery of Hou’s illegally harvested wood. New Force Logistics trailers were seen parked at the factory, and at one point the reporter observed that the very logs Oma loaded into one of these trailers in Nhoma were at the mill.
On several occasions, OCCRP saw Hou park his silver Volkswagen SUV at the factory and drive inside.
Credit: John GroblerA pile of logs at the former state-owned sawmill in Rundu.
Morvan Foster, a former manager in Hou’s company, said Hou has been working with the sawmill’s new manager, Mike Thukisho, to illegally export rosewood by cutting the logs into planks so they could get around the government decree issued in August that banned trade in unprocessed timber.
“Mike [Thukisho] will claim they are just friends, but they are in business together,” said Foster.
Thukisho denied the allegation, saying he was given permission to use the factory to produce chairs and desks for 1,000 schools, creating jobs for local unemployed youth. At first he said New Force Logistics had been helping to transport timber for the desks, but he then backtracked, saying Hou was planning to process the timber to export to South Africa.
Hou denied to a reporter that he was involved with illegal logging, insisting that Li Weichao worked for someone else. “I only do the transport,” he told OCCRP.
He would not discuss his purported marriage in Namibia, or any of his legal affairs. When pressed on the evidence, he ended the call.
Despite Hou’s apparently thriving business, his employees have not seen much of the cash. A mechanic at his Kawe plant complained that he was promised N$3,000 ($206) a month in wages, but has only been paid half that. Every month since he started work, he said, he has been promised “full pay next month.”
Some Chinese shaddy business men exploiting the weak law enforcement of African countries with collusion of corrupt local officials
Btw the Chinese guy given example of in the article is a wanted man in China himself
Instead of giving racist tone to the situ the article should focus on corruption of local government if they sellout own resources vultures from China to USA to India will and have come to feasts on Africa's wealth
Deltadart
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I understand where you coming from. Your contribution is appreciated.
drumstick
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Salute to you for raising the issues that you did... you will see how these bots attack you for speaking the truth. This goes true for their daily global times. It speaks what their leaders can't, which is mostly very derogative language and threats dished out openly.
When you speak against china they will gang up against you by labelling you racist and anything else and try to shut you up. At the same time these chinese are the most racist persons on earth.
chinese picked up fights with everyone and they got bloody nose on their western front (They are being beaten up since 1967 and not able to understand what to do here...), but on eastern front they are bullies.
Open threats to Taiwan and Philippines are almost daily staple for chinese. But you will see how these bots hired by ccp will try to defame you, but if you put a word about them you will be labelled as racist.
This particular article that you mentioned must be given enough publicity to make general public aware of how chinese behave when out of their country....
Just last week this same person replying to you was celebrating the India's virus problems and chinas rocket launch (which is threatening people now by crashing on earth)... @Beast but he will not get banned or mods wont ban him...
Continue to speak up, there are other forums globally where you need to take them down. And you will find people like me always.
Jackdaws
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What name calling and insult. It's a political party which is being insulted and abused. Happens all the time in democracies and open societies. Ask the Chinese refugees in democratic countries.
denel
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Correct - house cleaning needs to happen. Our ruling parties are absolutely corrupt but the anger of the people are out of control as well.
Thank you. Appreciate that. I am fed up of these ccp bots who promote lies and conspiracies without any shame or control. Moderators need to step up - either outright bans or get them to produce their wechat ids to ensure these are not state actors who they clearly are.
On this continent - they culled entire elephant populations, next rhinos, timbers, they dont even spare donkeys any more.
As I noted, one day people will take matters into their own hands and demand new rulers as we saw in Uganda; dont push our continent hard - we welcome people but these people are hell bent on destroying our continent.
aziqbal
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clearly a fake Pakistani with Chinese ID
how can a Pakistan be so effected by anti Chinese posts
if you dont like it counter it with facts and figures
no one asked for your opinion
if you dont like it counter with facts and figures
if you are a Chinse bootlicker go to China and live there
White and Green with M/S
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You should be little neutral Sir you're PDF analyst ànd think tank ànd western countries are not angle either for looting ànd destroying Africa
Type59
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Materialism gone mad, gotta have rare stuff to show off. Artificial value placed on objects with no real value. Chinese should relearn "rationality", which communism teaches. Chinese not just guilty of this, many humans want bragging rights.
If criticise their excesses they will call you a "hater" or jealous of their riches.
If criticise their excesses they will call you a "hater" or jealous of their riches.
Maarkhoor
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Lols many PDF members now and talked with me....So your cheap shot at me gone wasted...
Chinese are our friends and paid poster like you and @denel will not be tolerated.
@WebMaster @Horus @Foxtrot Alpha
Gave me negative ratting because I am trying to expose them, HE is working against our national interest.
khanmubashir
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But main cause is. Corruption and inaptitude of yr own people which others are taking advantage of
If you just blame others and not.fix own self.it won't fix before Chinese there were westerners and then some one else
Few years back in South Africa there was alot of chatter about some powerful Indian family basically looting the people on back of corrupt Zuma government
denel
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oh absolutely friend. No question about it. The objective of this post was to highlight we have massive issues. Finally we got rid of Guptas/Zuma/China brigade here - the damage they did was enormous. Thankfully to our media which did tonnes of digging to get this in front of the public for awareness.
Until, we dont clean up our house, this looting will continue.
There is no appetite for any Indian or chinese hands in this country; they have been a total disaster for us.
925boy
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2 billions wrongs dont make a right! this is a fallacy excuse you're using here. every entity is responsible for the abuse and crimes they commit, simple, doesnt matter who did what b4 who showed up wherever.
China doesnt love Africa, China is DEPENDENT on African resources for the survival and resourcing of the huge demands of China....but if they push it too much, and stop offering reciprocal and equitable benefits in exchange, Africans will eventually kick them out.
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