If India is following Israeli model in Kashmir, Pakistan needs to follow the Iranian model

[Khan vilatey]

nah, all that has been tried and failed over the last several decades. The only significant outcome was Pakistan became knows as encouraging terrorist activities - ended up several Pakistan outfits getting classified as terrorists, Pakistan pushed into FATF watch list and most telling - India winning the moral high ground to be able to remove Article 370.

a militia will not be a covert operation but a regular force under the army like the us national guard. As Kashmir is disputed territory it can’t be considered war, a lot like India taking Saichin. This has to be a very public overt mission.

best possible scenario the world gets a peace deal signed worst price we go to war on our terms

kv

 

[El Sidd]

So who is going to be the Supreme Leader and what will be the revolutionary guard called? Tiger force?

 

[Khan vilatey]

So who is going to be the Supreme Leader and what will be the revolutionary guard called? Tiger force?

Pakistan Militia

It’s a regular force with officer seconded for training and having its own officers as well. A lot like mujahid force.

the world will not take you seriously till we don’t take action for what we believe in

The best example of this is February 27

KV

 

[Thamizh Puli]

a militia will not be a covert operation but a regular force under the army like the us national guard. As Kashmir is disputed territory it can’t be considered war, a lot like India taking Saichin. This has to be a very public overt mission.

best possible scenario the world gets a peace deal signed worst price we go to war on our terms

kv

ofcourse peace is great. But as long as there is any sense left among Pakistani decision makers, whether for peace or for just saving their own hide, no going to war, certainly not on whatever you think your terms are. In other words, as long as your military decision makers do not become self-immolating kamikaze

 

[Khan vilatey]

ofcourse peace is great. But as long as there is any sense left among Pakistani decision makers, whether for peace or for just saving their own hide, no going to war, certainly not on whatever you think your terms are. In other words, as long as your military decision makers do not become self-immolating kamikaze

see every time we took a stand we grew stronger, we as Pakistanis have forgotten about our God given right to get something better. Example nuclear tests people who said if we do this we would die of hunger were wrong, people who said the JF-17 would never be as good were wrong, people who said Pakistan would not survive a few months have been proven wrong , 73 years wrong to be exact!

be strong prepare for war build an army and the world will be your oyster

KV

 

[Thamizh Puli]

see every time we took a stand we grew stronger, we as Pakistanis have forgotten about our God given right to get something better. Example nuclear tests people who said if we do this we would die of hunger were wrong, people who said the JF-17 would never be as good were wrong, people who said Pakistan would not survive a few months have been proven wrong , 73 years wrong to be exact!

be strong prepare for war build an army and the world will be your oyster

KV

so why has Pakistan failed to take such a strong stand and win on some positive constructive developmental objectives? education, science, social development, disease eradication, ....? 200+M people are involved and there living is based on hating India or America or Afghanistan or Russia or something.

If you strategy for self fulfilment is to build an army what's going to happen? armies lesser than yours are going to avoid you and those stronger than you are going to slap you around. Do you see why in spite of lot of sacrifice Pakistan find it difficult to find and sustain a position of strength in any context? your country is becoming uni-dimensional

 

[Vikki]

After India passed their new law to alter the demographics of Kashmir by following the Israeli model of settlements in the West Bank, Pakistan should wake up and follow the Iranian model of hard power, force, and deterrence. Pakistan should create some strong proxies and start surrounding Indian Kashmir. Step up clandestine operations and start launching some missiles and drones to hit key military targets. Pakistan should forget about these hollow press releases and establish some real force and deterrence with missiles and drones to bring an end to Indian impunity in Kashmir. There ought to be consequences for India, the era of Pakistan allowing them to get away must end. Iran has been the most successful at putting pressure on Israel with its proxies and striking key Saudi locations which is exactly what Pakistan should do to India. When Pakistan says India has violated UN resolutions and imprisoned Kashmiris like worse than animals, India doesn't deserve an easy slap on the wrist. That deserves a hard and forceful response, and for that you need credibility on your threats. India currently thinks that Pakistan won't do anything to stop it and they are right. Pakistan needs to establish credibility. If we say we will do something, we should do it. Now is not the time for Pakistan to be afraid. Now is the time to take bold, tough, forceful, aggressive and decisive action and stop India's Israeli settler model in Kashmir in its tracks. When US killed Iran's top general, Iran didn't quietly accept it. They launched dozens of missiles at US bases in hard revenge and made sure US heard their message loud and clear. When Syria killed dozens of Turkish soldiers, Erdogan unleashed hell on Syria by drone striking anything that moved. That is what Pakistan must do to India if we are serious about gaining credibility to deliver our threats and put an end to India's impunity.

First try to feed your poor...how many times will you go to IMF?as recently as yesterday IMF again agreed to give you 1.4B dollars again..if i were in your place , i would die of shame instead of worryng about india...I would feel even more embarassed to compare my country with India given how poorly my govt is performing....i would also be worried about future of my country given how badly this shutdown is already affecting my economically crippled country.

see every time we took a stand we grew stronger, we as Pakistanis have forgotten about our God given right to get something better. Example nuclear tests people who said if we do this we would die of hunger were wrong, people who said the JF-17 would never be as good were wrong, people who said Pakistan would not survive a few months have been proven wrong , 73 years wrong to be exact!

be strong prepare for war build an army and the world will be your oyster

KV

You are surviving and so are ethiopia, sudan, somalia , Afghanistan etc....how many people have you brought out of poverty? How far have youbimproved your literacy rate?how many world standard universities have you built? How many poor people are getting proper medical facilities?
What is the respect pakistan or a pakistani gets outside of pakistan? What is the word that comes to mind when one utters the word pakistan around the world?
If you are happy just because your country is surviving, it shows how you have compromised in your life.

 

[padamchen]

After India passed their new law to alter the demographics of Kashmir by following the Israeli model of settlements in the West Bank, Pakistan should wake up and follow the Iranian model of hard power, force, and deterrence. Pakistan should create some strong proxies and start surrounding Indian Kashmir. Step up clandestine operations and start launching some missiles and drones to hit key military targets. Pakistan should forget about these hollow press releases and establish some real force and deterrence with missiles and drones to bring an end to Indian impunity in Kashmir. There ought to be consequences for India, the era of Pakistan allowing them to get away must end. Iran has been the most successful at putting pressure on Israel with its proxies and striking key Saudi locations which is exactly what Pakistan should do to India. When Pakistan says India has violated UN resolutions and imprisoned Kashmiris like worse than animals, India doesn't deserve an easy slap on the wrist. That deserves a hard and forceful response, and for that you need credibility on your threats. India currently thinks that Pakistan won't do anything to stop it and they are right. Pakistan needs to establish credibility. If we say we will do something, we should do it. Now is not the time for Pakistan to be afraid. Now is the time to take bold, tough, forceful, aggressive and decisive action and stop India's Israeli settler model in Kashmir in its tracks. When US killed Iran's top general, Iran didn't quietly accept it. They launched dozens of missiles at US bases in hard revenge and made sure US heard their message loud and clear. When Syria killed dozens of Turkish soldiers, Erdogan unleashed hell on Syria by drone striking anything that moved. That is what Pakistan must do to India if we are serious about gaining credibility to deliver our threats and put an end to India's impunity.

Whatever you do, please call it Pakistan model.

I don't like to see you boys playing second fiddle to Iranis always.

Or the Arabs.

So big and strong you are.

So many planes and missiles and nukes.

You should be making models for the rest of the Ummah to follow.

I want to go to other forums and read threads about Iran should be following Pakistan model. Syria should be following Pakistan model. Libya should be following Pakistan model. Saudi should be following Pakistan model. Turkey should be following Pakistan model. Palestine should be following Pakistan model.

I want the Pakistan model to become the gold standard. The bar to aspire to.

 

[Khan vilatey]

First try to feed your poor...how many times will you go to IMF?as recently as yesterday IMF again agreed to give you 1.4B dollars again..if i were in your place , i would die of shame instead of worryng about india...I would feel even more embarassed to compare my country with India given how poorly my govt is performing....i would also be worried about future of my country given how badly this shutdown is already affecting my economically crippled country.


You are surviving and so are ethiopia, sudan, somalia , Afghanistan etc....how many people have you brought out of poverty? How far have youbimproved your literacy rate?how many world standard universities have you built? How many poor people are getting proper medical facilities?
What is the respect pakistan or a pakistani gets outside of pakistan? What is the word that comes to my mind when one utters the word pakistan in peoples mind around the world?
If you are happy just because your country is surviving, it shows how you have cimpromised in your life.

why such a bee in your bonnet?

how many people had India taken from poverty?

kv

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Pakistan should be following Afghan Talib should be thread title.

 

[Big Tank]

Pakistan should be following Afghan Talib should be thread title.

Afghan Taliban will largely fail in terrain of Kashmir. Having Jungle and Urban Warfare, they won't stand a chance. We already wasted a lot of time using LeT/JuD/HKM etc. They were of no use, their fighting capabilities lacked spirit and they also hurt International Image of Pakistan by doing dumb acts like hijackings, taking hostages. We need properly organized and uniformed militias like the Popular Mobilization Forces, Hamas and Hezbollah.

 

[Khan vilatey]

so why has Pakistan failed to take such a strong stand and win on some positive constructive developmental objectives? education, science, social development, disease eradication, ....? 200+M people are involved and there living is based on hating India or America or Afghanistan or Russia or something.

If you strategy for self fulfilment is to build an army what's going to happen? armies lesser than yours are going to avoid you and those stronger than you are going to slap you around. Do you see why in spite of lot of sacrifice Pakistan find it difficult to find and sustain a position of strength in any context? your country is becoming uni-dimensional

it hasn’t, thousands of Indian troops dead in Kashmir . Over half of the Indian army force deployed in Kashmir. Today even without Pakistani support troops are taking casualties.

this means less forces on Pakistan’s natural border. Gr8 strategy so far

kv

 

[padamchen]

Afghan Taliban will largely fail in terrain of Kashmir. Having Jungle and Urban Warfare, they won't stand a chance. We already wasted a lot of time using LeT/JuD/HKM etc. They were of no use, their fighting capabilities lacked spirit and they also hurt International Image of Pakistan by doing dumb acts like hijackings, taking hostages. We need properly organized and uniformed militias like the Popular Mobilization Forces, Hamas and Hezbollah.

Of all Muslims, I believe Turks, Kurds and Irani fighters will do best in crowded mountainous Kashmir.

What do you think?

 

[Krptonite]

a militia will not be a covert operation but a regular force under the army like the us national guard. As Kashmir is disputed territory it can’t be considered war, a lot like India taking Saichin. This has to be a very public overt mission.

best possible scenario the world gets a peace deal signed worst price we go to war on our terms

kv

Any attempt to change the status quo would be taken as an act of war.You mentioned siachen as an example, GoP could've taken it as a causes belli for a war, it didn't, why do you presume the same for GoI. The reasoning that since this being a "disputed territory" is predicated upon GoI accepting it as such, which is clearly not the case. An attack on one of us is an act on all of us, your perceptions notwithstanding. GoI has repeatedly demonstrated this fact, an attack on Kashmir is a full on war, why would we limit ourselves to your rules of engagement in a complete war scenario.

Any aspersions for international support will also be unfounded, this is not a court of law, wherein meritorious arguments will win the day, this is politics on a global stage. The international community would view GoP attempting to change the status quo via military means and hold it responsible for it. The last time PA tried precisely the same tactics you're proposing, albeit on a smaller scale, was in Kargil and you were isolated on the global arena. All it got you was infamy and instability.

Then there's the number you quoted, two million militia was it? Surprise is one of the most basic and fundamental aspects of an attack, how would you hide or provide covert support to a number almost four times your armed forces, surely it would be noticed, you'd be sending them to their deaths. The last time, PA could not accept the dead because of its stance that the fighters were not armed personel but guerrilla fighters. Many dead were buried by the IA, why would anyone fight knowing there's a possibility that they might die with no recognition or burial rights from the PA. What about their families, who would provide for them lacking the status of KIA for the PA.

How would you economically provide for such a number, there's food, lodging, logistics, armament, organization, command structure. Who or how would you finance such an amount?

Clearly you haven't thought about the minutiae of your plans, the devil clearly resides in them.

 

[Khan vilatey]

I Always see my friends on the forum mix economic strategy with military strategy. They are not one and the same albeit they are dependent on each other.

The reason why we Pakistan’s suffer massively in economic incompletions is simply us pakistani’s.

Why don’t all of us disillusioned masses wake up and stand outside and demand a better law enforcement and justice system. It’s because one we are lazy as protesting for something as basic as your legal rights is hard work. And two we have this illusion or a fantasy that a two tier system is good. By this I mean that the rulers who can break the rules and the mahkoom or ruled who have to obey we are obsessed by kings and one man coming and changing us.

the joint psyche is that one day we would become the ruling Eleite and would have the same power, most are happy with limited power where we can subjugate the lower masses (maids , drivers etc.) by the so called wanna be rulers commonly know as upper middle class.

what we truly need is the realization that a system with even laws and justice enforced will create an even playing field for all. The even scarier part is the realization that it means usin the middle will have to respect all and let people grow. Our ruling Eleite children will have to work hard after a few generations later to survive and dignity of work will need to return where a gutter cleaners who works hard can have children who would become doctors, artisans and more

this is why we fail we want others to fail and the selflessness is only skin deep in us as a nation

kv

Any attempt to change the status quo would be taken as an act of war. The reasoning that since this being a "disputed territory" is predicated upon GoI accepting it as such, which is clearly not the case. An attack on one of us is an act on all of us, your perceptions notwithstanding. GoI has repeatedly demonstrated this fact, an attack on Kashmir is a full on war, why would we limit ourselves to your rules of engagement in a complete war scenario.

Any aspersions for international support will also be unfounded. The international community would view GoP attempting to change the status quo via military means and hold it responsible for it. The last time PA tried precisely the same tactics you're proposing, albeit on a smaller scale, was in Kargil and you were isolated on the global arena. All it got you was infamy and instability.

Then there's the number you quoted, two million militia was it? Surprise is one of the most basic and fundamental aspects of an attack, how would you hide or provide covert support to a number almost four times your armed forces, surely it would be noticed, you'd be sending them to their deaths. The last time, PA could not accept the dead because of its stance that the fighters were not armed personel but guerrilla fighters. Many dead were buried by the IA, why would anyone fight knowing there's a possibility that they might die with no recognition or burial rights from the PA. What about their families, who would provide for them lacking the status of KIA for the PA.

How would you economically provide for such a number, there's food, lodging, logistics, armament, organization, command structure. Who or how would you finance such an amount?

Clearly you haven't thought about the minutiae of your plans, the devil clearly resides in them.[/QUOTE

Then prepare for war, raise the militia and stand up for what you believe in. This doesn’t have to be a 2 year plan it could be a 5 year plan. Stop begging the world for what is yours. India has much more to lose in this. If you truly start raising a milita they will negotiate as there economics will keep them from going to war.

An open war will be devastating for the Indians. Kashmir for them is not worth the effort. Unfortunately the threat would require action and if Negotiations don’t work on water and de escalation then yes we would need to go on a. Limited war in Kashmir

kv