If Armenians fire back every time Azeris shoot, the war will resume”

[Abii]

or the Azeris and Israel might attach souther Azerbaijan to the north, which seems more likely to me.

The way it's going now, it's the other way around. Ever since visa restrictions were removed a few years ago, Soviet Azaris have been lining up to go to Iran. I don't have the figures on how many stay but figures from both sides show that an overwhelming majority of border crossing happens from Soviet Azarbaijan to Iran.

Here's an example of soviet Azaris lining up on Iran's border

btw, do I need to remind you about how it was these very Azaris that saved Iran from falling into Ottoman hands? Iran lost more Azaris in those wars than it did Persians, MUCH MUCH MORE.

I am kinda ignorant about that region so just want to clear something:

Would this be a power struggle between:

Azerbaijan+Turkey VS Armenia+CSTO+Iran?

Turkey and Azeris might be genetically related but does that bond enable a security treaty between the two countries?

In that case, how much would Turkey consider participating in a potential armed conflict, considering that Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Kazakhstan are also Turkic nations and allied to Russia?

CAR nations are die-hard loyal to Russia and are virtually Russian states.

IMO it would be best to let the two parties sort it out themselves.

genetically related?
Turks themselves aren't genetically related. Being Turkish is a cultural thing, same as being Persian. In fact, the only genetically pure human populations can be found in remote places.

Iranian Azaris are just turkified Persians, Kurds and Armenians. Before the Mongol Invasion, all these lands were inhabited by Armenians, Persians and Kurdish people and with time they were turkified. Iranians for example, all look identical, doesn't matter if they're azaris or kurdish or arab or Persian. Khamenei is an Azari for example.

 

[Arian]

ethincity... Iran who is Persian doesn't go well with Turkic Azerbaijan.

religion isn't a big factor here. even tough the mullahs in Iran say they are the 'protector of Shias' it's just words...

Such a stupid answer from you Silko, I didn't expect it from you to be honest.
Do you realize that the current government of Azerbaijan is anti-Islamic and is trying its best to wipe out all Shi3a elements in Azerbaijani culture because they see it as a linkage to Iran that they want to remove it?
Do you realize that the current government of Azerbaijan talks about greater Azerbaijan and they officially call Iranian provinces as South Azerbaijan in their speeches and newspapers? (Which is an obvious and unacceptable act of provocation)
Do you realize that Aliyev is not the guy that you could trust?

Armenia is a better choice for us, at least they don't talk about greater Armenia LOL. (I don't even say how ridiculous it is when a tiny incapable country like Azerbaijan dreams about expansionism).

 

[Abii]

Well isn't that counter-intuitive that Azerbaijan is a Shia majority country and Armenia is a Christian nation? Why will Iran pick Armenia over Azerbaijan?

Armenia hasn't allied itself with Israel nor has it ever done anything bad against Iran.

If we're going by mutual respect and cultural heritage, the Armenians are just as close to Iranians as Azaris are. Armenia and Iran were one country until Christianity came into the scene and until the 1800s, Iran and Armenia had off and on relationship and at many times were one country. Today there is a large Armenian community in Iran and the Armenian music, food, culture etc... all have very close similarities to Iranian cultures. We even share Zoroastrianism as our ancestral religion.

The Azarbaijani language isn't even an Indo European language like Persian, Kurdish and Armenian and they don't share the 2-3 millenia year old cultural heritage that the rest of the nationalities in Iran share, but they're still an Iranian nationality and have been for over a thousand years. They have bled for the country and own a share of Iran. Soviet Azarbaijan is simply a wild teenager that doesn't know what it wants. It's stock between its Iranian and Turkish roots as well as the 200 year old Sovietification that it endured under occupation.

 

[BronzePlaque]

There is no Armenian or Azeri Turk here? I would like to hear what they say about this..ASQ, bro step forward and share your thoughts

 

[Arian]

There is no Armenian or Azeri Turk here? I would like to hear what they say about this..ASQ, bro step forward and share your thoughts

What could he say? Except repeating what he has repeated 100 times so far.
Do you deny the fact that Azerbaijan is helping Israel in its terrorist operations inside Iran? Do you deny the fact that Azerbaijan could be a potential host for an Israeli strike on Iran? Do you deny the fact that Azerbaijan is trying to limit shi3a elements in its culture to distance its people from shi3a Iran? Do you deny the fact that Azerbaijan officially calls Iranian provinces as southern Azerbaijan?
Can anyone deny these facts my friend?

 

[BronzePlaque]

What could he say? Except repeating what he has repeated 100 times so far.
Do you deny the fact that Azerbaijan is helping Israel in its terrorist operations inside Iran? Do you deny the fact that Azerbaijan could be a potential host for an Israeli strike on Iran? Do you deny the fact that Azerbaijan is trying to limit shi3a elements in its culture to distance its people from shi3a Iran? Do you deny the fact that Azerbaijan officially calls Iranian provinces as southern Azerbaijan?
Can anyone deny these facts my friend?

This thread is not about Iran my friend..I just want to hear armenian and/or azeri turk forumers opinions about Armenia-Azeri conflict..Thank you

 

[silko]

what is naive about my answer?

isn't it a truth that the Persian leaders that has power doesn't want a majority of Azeri Turkic unity and stand beside Azerbaijan?

i had a Azeri friend from Iran i went to school with last year,
he said that religion isn't a big factor between Azerbaijan and Iran. and yes my words hold true, the iranian shia mullahs word "protector of Shias" is just BS.

this conflict has more to do with ethnicity than with Religion. Azerbaijan says this Iran says that. all based on Interests.

'No need to talk about ethinicity for us.Iran treats Azerbaijan maybe even better than how Turkey treats Kurds,who are Iranic People.And also history still remembers what Armenians endured in last years of Ottoman era.'

and i have also met Iranians who has been threatened with their lifes and come to Europe, particularly in Norway i have met a lot of anti-IRI persians. Iran treats it's citizens overall much more worse than Turkey.

this year (second year of secondary school) i have a Persian friend who hates Kurds more than i do, he hates the mullahs more than he hates Azeri's.

and do tell, what happened to those "poor Armenians"?

 

[Arian]

This thread is not about Iran my friend..I just want to hear armenian and/or azeri turk forumers opinions about Armenia-Azeri conflict..Thank you

Ah Okay then. I misinterpreted you first when I read it.

do azeris in iranian province call them azeris or persians?

In Tabriz and some other cities they call themselves Azeris and they don't like to be called Persian, in other areas they call themselves both Azeri and Persian, outside of Iran most Iranians, including Azeris, call themselves Persian. It depends.

 

[Abii]

do azeris in iranian province call them azeris or persians?

Azari of course

what is naive about my answer?

isn't it a truth that the Persian leaders that has power doesn't want a majority of Azeri Turkic unity and stand beside Azerbaijan?

i had a Azeri friend from Iran i went to school with last year,
he said that religion isn't a big factor between Azerbaijan and Iran. and yes my words hold true, the iranian shia mullahs word "protector of Shias" is just BS.

this conflict has more to do with ethnicity than with Religion. Azerbaijan says this Iran says that. all based on Interests.

'No need to talk about ethinicity for us.Iran treats Azerbaijan maybe even better than how Turkey treats Kurds,who are Iranic People.And also history still remembers what Armenians endured in last years of Ottoman era.'

and i have also met Iranians who has been threatened with their lifes and come to Europe, particularly in Norway i have met a lot of anti-IRI persians. Iran treats it's citizens overall much more worse than Turkey.

this year (second year of secondary school) i have a Persian friend who hates Kurds more than i do, he hates the mullahs more than he hates Azeri's.

and do tell, what happened to those "poor Armenians"?

dude you're all over the place. Seperate out the issues, be more concise and be clear about wtf you want to get across cuz I'm sure I'm not the only one here that has no idea wtf you're trying to say.

 

[Arian]

what is naive about my answer?

Everything.

isn't it a truth that the Persian leaders that has power doesn't want a majority of Azeri Turkic unity and stand beside Azerbaijan?

I didn't fully understand this one, I just answer based on my speculations.
You call 13%-24% majority in your place?
Which Persian leaders? Khamenei? He is an Azeri himself.

i had a Azeri friend from Iran i went to school with last year,
he said that religion isn't a big factor between Azerbaijan and Iran. and yes my words hold true, the iranian shia mullahs word "protector of Shias" is just BS.

It's just as much as B.S. as Turkic brotherhood is. Israel killed your people and Azeris are having amicable ties with Israel now. Politics is not always based on ideologies and ethnic/religious issues.

this conflict has more to do with ethnicity than with Religion. Azerbaijan says this Iran says that. all based on Interests.

Wrong. This conflict has more to do with politics than ethnicity or religion.

and i have also met Iranians who has been threatened with their lifes and come to Europe, particularly in Norway i have met a lot of anti-IRI persians. Iran treats it's citizens overall much more worse than Turkey.

I didn't bring this one up. Someone else did. But political differences is way different than that. No one has threatened them with their lives, they just lie to make themselves look important. I know a bunch of those guys that bluff about their political activity inside Iran while when they were inside Iran they didn't even dare to go outside and chant something against Khamenei. I know my people better I think.

this year (second year of secondary school) i have a Persian friend who hates Kurds more than i do, he hates the mullahs more than he hates Azeri's.

He might be an exception. You might have many Persian friends, but you can't generalize your personal limited experiences to all Iranians. (that are over 80 million people in number)

and do tell, what happened to those "poor Armenians"?

I didn't bring it up, someone else did. (Era did I guess). I'm not going to discuss this here on the Turkish defense forum because I respect the Turkish people on here, but I guess you know better than me what you did to them (I've even seen some pan-Turks feeling proud of that).

 

[silko]

I didn't fully understand this one, I just answer based on my speculations.
You call 13%-24% majority in your place?
Which Persian leaders? Khamenei? He is an Azeri himself.

what is 13-24?

with leaders i meant parties, Government and the parliament in particular. not aimed at khomenei.

It's just as much as B.S. as Turkic brotherhood is. Israel killed your people and Azeris are having amicable ties with Israel now. Politics is not always based on ideologies and ethnic/religious issues.

i don't expect a full Turkic brotherhood. but Azerbaijan is different... if a Shia get's killed by a Sunni, does this mean you are going to cut all relation with Sunnis? what Turkey can't offer Israel does. and what we can we jointly produce them.

Wrong. This conflict has more to do with politics than ethnicity or religion.

i don't think so. if it was politics then both sides would talk instead of using other means, as much as Aliyev says "South-Azerbaijan" or whatever it is just talk. you don't really think it will happen do you, just like Armenia calls our eastern borders as theirs and doesn't recognize them as Turkish sovereignity.

I didn't bring this one up. Someone else did. But political differences is way different than that. No one has threatened them with their lives, they just lie to make themselves look important. I know a bunch of those guys that bluff about their political activity inside Iran while when they were inside Iran they didn't even dare to go outside and chant something against Khamenei. I know my people better I think.

it may be, i just speak based on what i hear, and since i haven't been to Iran i can't confirm the other point you show.

He might be an exception. You might have many Persian friends, but you can't generalize your personal limited experiences to all Iranians. (that are over 80 million people in number)

since he is one i have met he does give me a impression of Iranians. the other one in my first senior school also hated Kurds, most of the 'Persians' (as that is what they like to be called and not Iranians, since it is associated with Islamic regime somehow) hate the current system.

I didn't bring it up, someone else did. (Era did I guess). I'm not going to discuss this here on the Turkish defense forum because I respect the Turkish people on here, but I guess you know better than me what you did to them (I've even seen some pan-Turks feeling proud of that).

both sides can say what they want. if they want it to be recognized they better start finding evidence and apply to ICJ instead of lobbying and posting fake pictures of Jews that where killed by Nazis and saying it was armenians.

 

[Ir.Tab.]

The way it's going now, it's the other way around. Ever since visa restrictions were removed a few years ago, Soviet Azaris have been lining up to go to Iran. I don't have the figures on how many stay but figures from both sides show that an overwhelming majority of border crossing happens from Soviet Azarbaijan to Iran.

Here's an example of soviet Azaris lining up on Iran's border

[video=youtube]


btw, do I need to remind you about how it was these very Azaris that saved Iran from falling into Ottoman hands? Iran lost more Azaris in those wars than it did Persians, MUCH MUCH MORE.



genetically related?
Turks themselves aren't genetically related. Being Turkish is a cultural thing, same as being Persian. In fact, the only genetically pure human populations can be found in remote places.

Iranian Azaris are just turkified Persians, Kurds and Armenians. Before the Mongol Invasion, all these lands were inhabited by Armenians, Persians and Kurdish people and with time they were turkified. Iranians for example, all look identical, doesn't matter if they're azaris or kurdish or arab or Persian. Khamenei is an Azari for example.

Wrong phenomena in my opinion.

Mongolian language is not a branch of Turkic languages

Geographic distribution of Mongolic people (areas shaded in red)

Turkic language

thus it is not logical to assume Mongolians have turned the people's language to Turkic Azeri instead of Mongolian language.

Mongols occupied all the current territory of Iran. Why have only a part of Nation changed their language!

All the period of Mongolian Empire in Iran territory was from 1230 to 1290. Considering the technological possibilities of that era, It is not enough to assimilate a nation. A very current example is the failed attempt of Pahlavi dynasty to assimilate the Turks of Iran from 1925 to 1979.

Turks of Iran have other origins rather than the rejected phenomena of "Mongol roots". There are some sources providing more information:

Origins and early expansion
Historic states represented in Turkish presidential seal
Oghuz Turks
Timeline of the Turks (500–1300)
Göktürks
Khazars
Kangju
Turkic peoples

And more interesting thing is our ancestors developed orkhon script, and our religious was Tengrism before Islam.

Shaman Drum of Tengrism

Lovely picture, isn't it? There is one god! ruling the earth and sky, All humans are pictured arms in arms! Not against the nature but in it. The god is thoughtful so it is something like human, but his head has a flesh showing it's superiority, and the wings are symbols of it's unnatural powers. It resembles the fundamentals of the more modern & recent religions like Islam to me, doesn't it.

However I am proud of being an IRANIAN Turk. Very similar to a French race of Switzerland, being proud of his country.

 

[Arian]

what is 13-24?
with leaders i meant parties, Government and the parliament in particular. not aimed at khomenei.

I meant the percentage of Azeries.
Political parties have Azeris in them too in large numbers, in the parliament at least 50 representatives are directly chosen from Azeri provinces and many other, although not completely Azeri, might have Azeri blood. What you're saying is completely wrong, unless I haven't understood you well.

i don't expect a full Turkic brotherhood. but Azerbaijan is different... if a Shia get's killed by a Sunni, does this mean you are going to cut all relation with Sunnis? what Turkey can't offer Israel does. and what we can we jointly produce them.

The same here. We don't expect a full Shi3a brotherhood either. Why Azerbaijan is different? Azerbaijan considers Iran as main enemy and Turkey and Iran are having good ties, Turkey is having bad relations with Israel at the moment because of the 9 Turkish citizens that they killed and Azerbaijan and Turkey are having amicable ties. What kind of brotherhood do you call it?
Brotherhood or being protectors of someone or something is all B.S., because it can never happen fully.

i don't think so. if it was politics then both sides would talk instead of using other means, as much as Aliyev says "South-Azerbaijan" or whatever it is just talk. you don't really think it will happen do you, just like Armenia calls our eastern borders as theirs and doesn't recognize them as Turkish sovereignity.

So It's OK if officials of some other country call parts of your country as theirs according to you? What kind of a diplomacy you are suggesting now? To let others claim your lands officially? Is it OK if Ahmadinejad calls Kurdish parts of Turkey as West Kurdistan province of Iran because Kurds are Iranic people, not Turkic? Wouldn't Turks react to that? Laughable!!!
By the last part you meant that Azerbaijan and Armenia are holding talks to solve the dispute? Really? Surely you're joking.
It's all about politics my friend.

since he is one i have met he does give me a impression of Iranians. the other one in my first senior school also hated Kurds, most of the 'Persians' (as that is what they like to be called and not Iranians, since it is associated with Islamic regime somehow) hate the current system.

I, as a Persian, do not hate Kurds. They are very brave people and many of them have fought along Persians, Azeris and Arabs during the Iraq-Iran war for Iran. There are separatists among them, but Kurds in general, even the Kurds in Iraq, consider themselves Iranic people and that's enough for me to love them as fellow Iranians.

Your ideas are wrong, Persians and Azeris and Kurds and Arabs easily intermarry in the Iranian society, especially in Tehran. People here in Tehran don't care about such things, neither do they in other areas of Iran I think. I've been friends with many Azeris and Kurds in my university and I didn't have any problems with any one of them. As long as Azeri boys and girls and Persian boys and girls and Kurdish boys and girls marry with each other, our country will stay united and fortunately that's still happening in a very wide scale in Iran.

 

[silko]

The same here. We don't expect a full Shi3a brotherhood either. Why Azerbaijan is different? Azerbaijan considers Iran as main enemy and Turkey and Iran are having good ties, Turkey is having bad relations with Israel at the moment because of the 9 Turkish citizens that they killed and Azerbaijan and Turkey are having amicable ties. What kind of brotherhood do you call it?
Brotherhood or being protectors of someone or something is all B.S., because it can never happen fully.

i take you didn't understand me. what we cannot give or produce with Azerbaijan they will do with others. if Syria gunns down Iranians does this mean you are going to cut your partnership with China and Russia?

So It's OK if officials of some other country call parts of your country as theirs according to you? What kind of a diplomacy you are suggesting now? To let others claim your lands officially? Is it OK if Ahmadinejad calls Kurdish parts of Turkey as West Kurdistan province of Iran because Kurds are Iranic people, not Turkic? Wouldn't Turks react to that? Laughable!!!
By the last part you meant that Azerbaijan and Armenia are holding talks to solve the dispute? Really? Surely you're joking.

no i am not, they can call it whatever they want, won't cange anything except them looking stupid. they are just talking, if it was so easy they would have taken the land. Iran and Turkey has no border disputes. Azerbaijan has with Iran and Armenia has with Turkey. i don't care what some stupid Armenian says... i'll just laugh at him, cause i know that the eastern borders of Turkey will remain Turkish and the northern borders of Iran will remain Irani.

I, as a Persian, do not hate Kurds. They are very brave people and many of them have fought along Persians, Azeris and Arabs during the Iraq-Iran war for Iran. There are separatists among them, but Kurds in general, even the Kurds in Iraq, consider themselves Iranic people and that's enough for me to love them as fellow Iranians.

Your ideas are wrong, Persians and Azeris and Kurds and Arabs easily intermarry in the Iranian society, especially in Tehran. People here in Tehran don't care about such things, neither do they in other areas of Iran I think. I've been friends with many Azeris and Kurds in my university and I didn't have any problems with any one of them. As long as Azeri boys and girls and Persian boys and girls and Kurdish boys and girls marry with each other, our country will stay united and fortunately that's still happening in a very wide scale in Iran.

i am talking about what i have experienced in Norway from Iranians of all kind. it might be different over there in Iran, but here is not Tehran. i base my view on the conversations i have with them over time. since i have not been to Iran i can't say what it is like.