IAF's Iron Fist will shock and awe

[FaujHistorian]

.....

Planning a War requires "Brain-Power" my friend; not "Horse-Power"!
That is what Generals need to have and to employ. zn:

Peace.

Agreed!

But an important addition!

Both of our armies come from the same stock, so their brain power is very similar.

Indian army did win based on "Horse-power" whenever it won on the battlefield.

because our strategies, tactics, etc are pretty much the same.


It is funny to hear Indian army chatter when I visit the border posts.

Our guys very quickly interpret what's going on.

I bet the same thing happens on Indian side too when they hear the wireless chatter on our side

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Agreed!

But an important addition!

Both of our armies come from the same stock, so their brain power is very similar.

Indian army did win based on "Horse-power" whenever it won on the battlefield.

because our strategies, tactics, etc are pretty much the same.


It is funny to hear Indian army chatter when I visit the border posts.

Our guys very quickly interpret what's going on.

I bet the same thing happens on Indian side too when they hear the wireless chatter on our side

I think you are jumping to some hasty conclusions, there.

The chatter may be the same; but all the men are not......

We do not have only "Martial Races" in our Army.

There is a fair number of what you guys like to call as "baniyas, SDREs, Dravidians etc. etc....." in the army. Little "Horse-Power" (probably ) but enough "Brain-Power" in that lot........

Peace.

 

[Peshwa]

It was mainly Anzas in Kargil. The IA mopped up a number of them from the retaken bunkers.

About the first part; were'nt there only some scruffy rag-tag Mujaheddin in Kargil? How could they have had anti-air?
.

Hahaha..Semantics my friend

 

[Contrarian]

These exercises are for domestic consumption only. When Pakistan intimidated India with a cross-border skirmish a few months ago, India immediately submitted and pleaded for peace. No cold start.

Since when did Pakistan start 'intimidating' India. lol.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I think you are jumping to some hasty conclusions, there.

The chatter may be the same; but all the men are not......

We do not have only "Martial Races" in our Army.

There is a fair number of what you guys like to call as "baniyas, SDREs, Dravidians etc. etc....." in the army. Little "Horse-Power" (probably ) but enough "Brain-Power" in that lot........

Peace.

How come Indians run like heck when we talk about the make up of armies.

Same stock means same stock (from Indian subcontinent). Why would anyone take it beyond this and associate it with one ethnicity or the other?

If I say I like curry, should that somehow intrude on the sensitivities of one ethnicity or the other?

If I say Indian share with us the Muslim heritage, should that intrude on some sensitivities?

Heck no!

These are just facts that we should accept and move on.


So please do not go far beyond what I stated.


And yes come to Punjab border and Sindh border and you will see most of the Indian guys talking in Punjabi-dominated hindi. Very little of Bengali goes on I tell you.

And if there any Bengalis, they are talking in very very very low tone


peace

 

[Contrarian]

These IAF jets haven't done crap against the Maoist insurgents which have wrecked India's Eastern Provinces.
These IAF jets haven't done crap against the Bangladeshi immigrants who are pouring into India.
These IAF jets haven't done crap against the insurgencies in Kashmir.

Indian Airforce is never used against civilian population regardless of any insurgency present. The only exception has been once in the 80's. Never before and never again.

India never uses heavy weapons like artillery or attack choppers either.

Maybe this is something Pakistan should learn. You dont bomb your own people.

 

[Peshwa]

Since when did Pakistan start 'intimidating' India. lol.

Ever since the Chinese started doling out threats on their behalf....Different kind of outsourcing..LOL!

 

[Contrarian]

Actually we did.

When IAF was deployed in Kargil, for the first day or so, IAF fighters took it easy and got across LOC.

they were promptly shot down.

IAF quickly changed its strategy (and routing) and then remained strictly on the Indian side of LOC.


Off course the next thing Pakistanis could do was to deploy SAMs to defend Kargil, but that would have been a clear intrusion into Indian side.

So Pak army refrained and ended up getting 100s of its soldiers and assets killed.


War is a chess board, and Gen Mush didn't think it through all of the enemy moves.

Pak generals didn't believe that IAF will be deployed there.

And that miscalculation cost us dearly.


peace

Take a look at what PAF officer(s) had to say about the situation. Dont start talking as if you have also consumed quite a bit of daal.

The MiG 21 got downed by gun gas ingestion and the MiG 27 by ground fire while flying low to aid.

That apart, the MiG 29 regularly crossed the LoC into the Pakistani side. The MiG 29's also locked the F-16's when they were on station, and got locked in return as well. But mostly, the MiG 29 outranged the F-16 with the availability of BVR weapons on board.

The Mirage 2000 flew right on the LoC - and sometimes protruded in the Pakistani side - because of the terrain not deliberately in this case - to get target info on Pakistani supply depots and lines on the Pakistani side as well - for arty targeting.

PAF is frankly in no position to counter IAF in technology or quantity. And had a shooting war started, it would have been rather ugly for PAF compared to IAF.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Indian Airforce is never used against civilian population regardless of any insurgency present. The only exception has been once in the 80's. Never before and never again.

India never uses heavy weapons like artillery or attack choppers either.

Maybe this is something Pakistan should learn. You dont bomb your own people.

Comparing apples to oranges.

anti-insurgency ops depend on terrain or geography, and the weapons used by the insurgents.

There is no fix formula.

you have to device a unique COIN for every theater.


And no

Pakistanis do not use air attacks against cities or large towns.

that is very similar strategy as the Indian or any anyone else.


PAF or Army aviation is only used where Talib-bozos are hiding in some distant caves / forests.


peace

 

[Capt.Popeye]

And yes come to Punjab border and Sindh border and you will see most of the Indian guys talking in Punjabi-dominated hindi. Very little of Bengali goes on I tell you.

And if there any Bengalis, they are talking in very very very low tone
peace

There are plenty Tamils and Telugus and Kannadigas and Malayalis and Marathas apart from Bengalis in those parts. They are not the "talkative kind"; least of all in Punjabi Hindi!
You seem to know very little about our Army and us; though you say that you are like us.

Talking is not part of their brief; just doing is.

So that some guys can be spared for talking as well......

Peace.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Indian Airforce is never used against civilian population regardless of any insurgency present. The only exception has been once in the 80's. Never before and never again.

India never uses heavy weapons like artillery or attack choppers either.

Maybe this is something Pakistan should learn. You dont bomb your own people.

Was it not in the 60? At Aizwal?

When did we use it in the 80s?

 

[Contrarian]

Comparing apples to oranges.

anti-insurgency ops depend on terrain or geography, and the weapons used by the insurgents.

There is no fix formula.

you have to device a unique COIN for every theater.


And no

Pakistanis do not use air attacks against cities or large towns.

that is very similar strategy as the Indian or any anyone else.


PAF or Army aviation is only used where Talib-bozos are hiding in some distant caves / forests.


peace

What you say is only partially true, as in Kashmir COIN ops, India has never used attack choppers or arty or fighter jets even when the terrorists were hiding in caves in mountains or forests.

Or even when fighting in dense jungles where there is no civilian population on the Indo-Myanmar border.

Heck Musharraf used missile attacks on Bugti!

Its about having a policy and implementing it. India feels and rightly so that using heavy weapons produces negative results even if that leads to wiping out the insurgents with minimal cost.

Was it not in the 60? At Aizwal?

When did we use it in the 80s?

Sorry my bad. In 60's not 80's. In Aizwal. IAF was used.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Indian Airforce is never used against civilian population regardless of any insurgency present. The only exception has been once in the 80's. Never before and never again.

India never uses heavy weapons like artillery or attack choppers either.

Maybe this is something Pakistan should learn. You dont bomb your own people.

Correction, @Contrarian. That was in the 1960s. When Toofs and Vamps were used in Nagaland. A couple of Ops.; then it was called off.

2 reasons for that:
Firstly as you have stated- a matter of policy.
Secondly it was not practical to use jets against insurgents in thickly forested terrain.

Those policy doctrines remain unchanged.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Correction, @Contrarian. That was in the 1960s. When Toofs and Vamps were used in Nagaland. A couple of Ops.; then it was called off.

2 reasons for that:
Firstly as you have stated- a matter of policy.
Secondly it was not practical to use jets against insurgents in thickly forested terrain.

Those policy doctrines remain unchanged.

Not Nagaland, it was in Mizoram.

Sorry for being anal here

 

[Contrarian]

Correction, @Contrarian. That was in the 1960s. When Toofs and Vamps were used in Nagaland. A couple of Ops.; then it was called off.

2 reasons for that:
Firstly as you have stated- a matter of policy.
Secondly it was not practical to use jets against insurgents in thickly forested terrain.

Those policy doctrines remain unchanged.

It was in Aizwal and it is today possible to use jets and attack choppers in forested areas as well as mountains.

India however decidedly does not use them or artillery.

Something Pakistan doesnt care for.