IAF violated Pakistan air space| Forced to return

[Arsalan]

Asallam Alikum,

We are here to discuss the updates on the ongoing tense relations between Pakistan and India.

The Question is, are we on the verge of a war! How can we tackle the situation?

Your response will be highly appreciated and will add to our knowledge.

With special request of cooperation

Arsalan Aslam

Thankyou

 

[phoenix80]

I am new to this forum but it seems that majority over here are typically obsessed with India vs Pakistan combat etc etc ..... the real issue here is not what happened in 2002 or 1999 or 1986/84/71/65/48. IAF routinely sent recce missions in form of MiG-25s over Lahore/Islamabad and would with impunity be breaking the sound barrier over these two cities primarily to establish clear supeiority over PAF and Pakistani Air Defences. These ACs have been decommissioned and no longer fly, instead India is relying on its CARTOSAT/OCEANSAT/IRS series for surveillance as also on variety of other classified stuff. The encroachment of air space is probably true as I too have seen increased CAPs and air missions in Indian forward locations and this may be an attempt to map air defence sites (SAMs etc) and get the radar signature for data upload into the AEW and AWACs being held by India for use in case ordered. Also to test the reflexes of PAF .
As for what options lie in front of GoI, the question is a vexed one for India. Its not a question of if Pakistan will be overcome, that is a foregone conclusion within 3-5 days of outbreak of hostilities, but what happens thereafter? There is no question of incorporation of the territories into India, the potential pandoras box is too hot to handle, also the central government of pakistan loses its control over governance leaving Military/Intelligence to run the government which is on the verge of being radicalised instead of being the truly educated and elite of the society as was the case till late 1980s. This question, of what happens next, is something which has always stopped India from completing the war that began in 1999 and almost in May 2002. Pakistan can easily break up into 5 independent states and the poor economic conditions plus the effects of Afghan war on society would result in radicals taking over the governance which would then enable them to have a rich source from which to derive future volunteers for suicide missions thus affecting the complete society with the virus of the so-called "holy war"

 

[Arsalan]

Ap associated Press
updated 5:03 p.m. ET Dec. 13, 2008
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - A Pakistani air force spokesman said Indian aircraft violated Pakistani airspace but were chased back over the border.

The incident Saturday comes amid heightened tensions between the nuclear-armed rivals over last month's deadly attack in Mumbai.

Pakistan Air Commodore Himayun Viqar said the Indian aircraft crossed the border in Pakistan-controlled Kashmir and over the eastern city of Lahore.He would not say how many Indian aircraft were involved or give the exact time.

Pakistan Information Minister Sherry Rehman said the Indian Air Force had told Pakistan the incursion was "inadvertent."

Comment from India was not immediately available

 

[EagleEyes]

Makhi phasi jaal mein. Phir bolo. Indians are clowns. We know their clown faces, but they would still deny... no we didn't make the call.. no we didn't violate the air space. blah blah.. blah.

 

[Arsalan]

A mysterious thing happens last night;

The state television was quoted stating that a huge and loud explosion was heared in the Arabian sea. The cause and exact location in being investigated and is said to occure between the costal cities of badin and jati.

This news appeared at 12.30 am in the night and since then no proper description is available on Net or TV. But I heared the new at night myself!

Any comment on what this possibly could be!

 

[phoenix80]

as for the call issue, I find that a bit hard to digest, for no one calls up to warn of an impending attack if one wants to win that war. strange and naive to believe otherwise

 

[EagleEyes]

as for the call issue, I find that a bit hard to digest, for no one calls up to warn of an impending attack if one wants to win that war. strange and naive to believe otherwise

Heard of something called empty threats? When someone is frustrated.. the media incites hate, and public demands war. Yes.. thats what happens. Pakistan is not stupid to let its President talk to some hotel wala in India.

 

[phoenix80]

actually you are right, India is frustrated as to what is to be done with Pakistan. The fact is historically no one, neither the British in pre-independence India nor the post-independence Pakistan could establish clear sovereignity over NWFP. The tribals are too fiercely independent and that is the home of the new groups of radicals to enroll members from a large populance of afghan origin which has seen nothing except war since they were born 1977 on. It is this rich pool of experienced, unskilled (in any other profession) fighters that the terror groups found foundations for itself. Also ISI and elements of PA implemented what they saw succeeding in Afghanistan, against India, but lacking the foresight to see the impact of radical training and encouraging war in name of Islam and Jihad. The rallying point was religion, but this is derivative of Wahabism, something which is new in concept and not as ancient and rich as the Koran. These radicals in PA and ISI have become so indoctrinated, that they have absolutely gone agaisnt any sane advice and as it is, democracy in Pakistan is a joke. Your army rules in reality and that is too far ahead in radicalisation for your present government to do anything.
Second factor to see is that the President Mr Zardari and PM Mr Gilani are taking strong steps (for them) now itself as these two men are far sighted and realise the peril to Pakistan as it stands isolated, bankrupt and in jaws of terror itself. Mr. Zardari himself claimed, and rightly so, that Pakistan has nothing to fear from India. I agree. What his aim is, and what India wants to help him in, is to make Democracy and Economy in Pakistan so strong, that fundamentalism is eradicated. It is in our interest for Pakistan to remain strong, independent and democratic, and no governement of india will weaken Mr Zardari by mobilising or fighting. The solution lies with yourself only

 

[T-Rex]

I am new to this forum but it seems that majority over here are typically obsessed with India vs Pakistan combat etc etc ..... the real issue here is not what happened in 2002 or 1999 or 1986/84/71/65/48. IAF routinely sent recce missions in form of MiG-25s over Lahore/Islamabad and would with impunity be breaking the sound barrier over these two cities primarily to establish clear supeiority over PAF and Pakistani Air Defences. These ACs have been decommissioned and no longer fly, instead India is relying on its CARTOSAT/OCEANSAT/IRS series for surveillance as also on variety of other classified stuff. The encroachment of air space is probably true as I too have seen increased CAPs and air missions in Indian forward locations and this may be an attempt to map air defence sites (SAMs etc) and get the radar signature for data upload into the AEW and AWACs being held by India for use in case ordered. Also to test the reflexes of PAF .
As for what options lie in front of GoI, the question is a vexed one for India. Its not a question of if Pakistan will be overcome, that is a foregone conclusion within 3-5 days of outbreak of hostilities, but what happens thereafter? There is no question of incorporation of the territories into India, the potential pandoras box is too hot to handle, also the central government of pakistan loses its control over governance leaving Military/Intelligence to run the government which is on the verge of being radicalised instead of being the truly educated and elite of the society as was the case till late 1980s. This question, of what happens next, is something which has always stopped India from completing the war that began in 1999 and almost in May 2002. Pakistan can easily break up into 5 independent states and the poor economic conditions plus the effects of Afghan war on society would result in radicals taking over the governance which would then enable them to have a rich source from which to derive future volunteers for suicide missions thus affecting the complete society with the virus of the so-called "holy war"

So you think Pakistan has around 100 nukes just to be overcome by its enemies, actually there's no limit to what one can imagine.

 

[Majnun]

Whatever floats your boat. We all saw it as India blinking first.

India may have blinked first, but PAF says India was probably just checking PAF's readiness.

 

[moha199]

actually you are right, India is frustrated as to what is to be done with Pakistan. The fact is historically no one, neither the British in pre-independence India nor the post-independence Pakistan could establish clear sovereignity over NWFP. The tribals are too fiercely independent and that is the home of the new groups of radicals to enroll members from a large populance of afghan origin which has seen nothing except war since they were born 1977 on. It is this rich pool of experienced, unskilled (in any other profession) fighters that the terror groups found foundations for itself. Also ISI and elements of PA implemented what they saw succeeding in Afghanistan, against India, but lacking the foresight to see the impact of radical training and encouraging war in name of Islam and Jihad. The rallying point was religion, but this is derivative of Wahabism, something which is new in concept and not as ancient and rich as the Koran. These radicals in PA and ISI have become so indoctrinated, that they have absolutely gone agaisnt any sane advice and as it is, democracy in Pakistan is a joke. Your army rules in reality and that is too far ahead in radicalisation for your present government to do anything.
Second factor to see is that the President Mr Zardari and PM Mr Gilani are taking strong steps (for them) now itself as these two men are far sighted and realise the peril to Pakistan as it stands isolated, bankrupt and in jaws of terror itself. Mr. Zardari himself claimed, and rightly so, that Pakistan has nothing to fear from India. I agree. What his aim is, and what India wants to help him in, is to make Democracy and Economy in Pakistan so strong, that fundamentalism is eradicated. It is in our interest for Pakistan to remain strong, independent and democratic, and no governement of india will weaken Mr Zardari by mobilising or fighting. The solution lies with yourself only

Well you seems to be same as thick brain indian which you are actually. Pakistan is not going to break up as you have said in your previous post, I would suggest you to pay attention to your country which will be divided into 20 countries pretty soon. Pakistan had put down the support of shiks after 80s but india was dumb enough to mess with Pakistan in nwfp by RAW terrorists who has been suppling those terrorists weapons and $ under nato protection but Let Pakistan overcome her financial problems which will be fixed within 2 years and then watch the game is ON. India know it by now that Pakistan will totally support all the seperists in india left to right after finding out indias dirty game. Now its not a question of if it is when!!! We have faced bigger problems then these and we Pakistanis are with iron balls, We ont cry like girls instead we take the game like men and play it well, Russia tried to mess with Pakistan look what happend with them so you are russias kids so we will teach you guys a very good lesson. Mark my word, We will meet India once again in Panni pat and we will repeat history and rule india for another 1000 years, Soon there will be radiao Pakistan from daili, Now come and mess with us with your over confidence which is good because Pakistan will your your confidence against you Inshah Allah pretty soon, Watch and see, Don't forget why all of the sudden ISI is bad PA is bad PN is bad!!!! but there is a bad news this time when pakistan will rule baharat there won't be Western world who will push Pakistanis off of india but they will be Middel eastren. So get ready to be ruled by Pakistanis and then Arabs for another 2500 years, Inshah Allah

 

[Muradk]

The last full scale war (1971) does not support these fantastic assertions.

They desire it all the time, only they don't have the capability.

Yar Vinod I don't expect such comments from you. We all know who controlled the skies and there is nothing to be ashamed about it. Yes I admit we lost east Pakistan but we did kick IAF butt and you being an educated person cannot deny that.

 

[aussie_1973]

No matter what you say about ISI and PA Mr. Phony X , the Hindutava ideology is taking its toll in India and it will continue to do so.
Just to change the taste, what is your view about all the trouble in Assam and Naga Land.
Also I will be obliged if you could shed some light on Sikh freedom Struggle as they are still very active outside India, is there any chance that their movement will gain momentum again.

 

[cmohan]

We all know who controlled the skies and there is nothing to be ashamed about it. Yes I admit we lost east Pakistan but we did kick IAF butt and you being an educated person cannot deny that.

Dear Sir, What is the use in kicking the IAF butt when pakistan lost half of your country. Your action is like a boxing match loser after losing by knockout but boasting of the punches he delivered. People will remember only about who won the match or war. After all, Pakistan does not deserve an air force if it cant give something back.

 

[Patriot]

Dear Sir, What is the use in kicking the IAF butt when pakistan lost half of your country. Your action is like a boxing match loser after losing by knockout but boasting of the punches he delivered. People will remember only about who won the match or war. After all, Pakistan does not deserve an air force if it cant give something back.

We lost East Pakistan because
1)The people of Bangladesh were not with us
2)It was far away from our main territory..
3)PAF still maintained Air Supremacy over West Pakistan.
As far as our air force's quality is concerned Indian Jets would not go back to their shithole yesterday if PAF was a bad air force.