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IAF to trial American F-16, Swedish Gripen for 120-jet Make in India project to replace MiGs

i have a question from indian members why not another assembly line for tejas instead of f16
down the line after 20 years we will still float another tender if we dont go indigenous way
duniya ke saare plane ka theka le rakha hai hamne siwaaai apne


This whole program is under the SP model, which is basically for upcoming private sector integrators.

Would they want to produce Tejas? They are beginning to produce major modules for HAL to integrate. HAL will not let go of it easily.

Would they rather work with LM, SAAB, etc. over domestic aerospace designers?

I see no problem in this. Turkish and Korean companies produced the F16 are on their way to produce their own designs now. TATAs, Mahindras, L&Ts, Adani, Bharat Forge, etc, etc. have the same ambition of creating their own produce eventually.
 
It's not a dead end to Tejas. The platform is still being matured as we speak. For the F16 to be considered, the production will be in India with a private firm like TATAs.
ITs a dead end other wise it will be a nightmare in logisstics to work with so many light combat platforms also in capability Teja isway behind than Gripen E/NG or F16 V block 70.

For F16 as JV with TATA think again a president who won election to increase insourcing American jobs will outsource US jobs in India
 
ITs a dead end other wise it will be a nightmare in logisstics to work with so many light combat platforms also in capability Teja isway behind than Gripen E/NG or F16 V block 70.

For F16 as JV with TATA think again a president who won election to increase insourcing American jobs will outsource US jobs in India


Some one who miswords the fighter name intentionally clearly isnt here for a serious discussion. The fighter platform isnt dead, otherwise there wouldn't be a second production line going online, wouldnt have increased the initial order by 100+.

Trump said many things, all candidates say many things in the running, but things are different in case by case bases. L.M. knows well they wont be in the tender if local production isnt on the table, period. They're talking to TATAs for a reason, it's not small talk, that's for sure. They've been talking well before the SP model was in place, like a month ago.
 
Grippen will never get selected IAF already made up its mind for ex USAF MLU'd F16s with LMs help with new gen landing gear , Turbofan engine and GaN radar and avionics package and waepons package that will cost some 55-60millon dollars per piece and 150 million after life time costs are added

There is no GaN radar for the F-16.
SAAB is quite a lot ahead of the rest on this technology.
 
Some one who miswords the fighter name intentionally clearly isnt here for a serious discussion. The fighter platform isnt dead, otherwise there wouldn't be a second production line going online, wouldnt have increased the initial order by 100+.
http://www.janes.com/article/67252/india-seeks-new-naval-fighter-to-replace-rejected-tejas-lca

The latest tender is in line with this . frankly it doesnt make sense in continuation of two programes with similar capacities specially if local has more imported parts and vendors
 
http://www.janes.com/article/67252/india-seeks-new-naval-fighter-to-replace-rejected-tejas-lca

The latest tender is in line with this . frankly it doesnt make sense in continuation of two programes with similar capacities specially if local has more imported parts and vendors

What's the latest tender in line with? Both will co-exist. And extended order of 100+ wouldnt have been given, no addition of another production line wouldnt have happened if it was dead.

Local one is India's own IP, it can do whatever it pleases with that platform. If it wants it's imported LRUs to be replaced by the industry, it can. If it wants to replace the engine, radar, electronics, etc. It can. If it wants to make a naval tech demo off of the platform, it can. None of which you can do with a foreign platform, without red tape.The mark 2 is under development.

However, I still support a foreign OEM tie up with upcoming private sector integrators.
 
That's pretty weird.

I remember the Indians making fun of Pakistan for using the F-16, a 1970's platform who's production lines are being shut down all over the world as countries are replacing their obsolete models with newer fighters.

Now that India is buying it, it's suddenly amazing again? :blink: Pakistan has already had F-16's for decades already.

For $20 billion too, I don't understand it. Why not spend it on Rafale, Russian planes, or even the Tejas?
 
That's pretty weird.

I remember the Indians making fun of Pakistan for using the F-16, a 1970's platform who's production lines are being shut down all over the world as countries are replacing their obsolete models with newer fighters.

Now that India is buying it, it's suddenly amazing again? :blink: Pakistan has already had F-16's for decades already.

For $20 billion too, I don't understand it. Why not spend it on Rafale, Russian planes, or even the Tejas?
the idea is to make pakistan consider a brand new platform hence making them strain their limited resources. India can afford to throw around 20 billion at this as she is the top economic power in the world with a pot of gold at every street corner :smart:
 
What's the latest tender in line with? Both will co-exist. And extended order of 100+ wouldnt have been given, no addition of another production line wouldnt have happened if it was dead.

Local one is India's own IP, it can do whatever it pleases with that platform. If it wants it's imported LRUs to be replaced by the industry, it can. If it wants to replace the engine, radar, electronics, etc. It can. If it wants to make a naval tech demo off of the platform, it can. None of which you can do with a foreign platform, without red tape.The mark 2 is under development.

However, I still support a foreign OEM tie up with upcoming private sector integrators.

I have very different take on this, IMO this is a strategic decision to create Indian's own LM/Boeing in long run. Government need to give incentive to private sector to invest money in the first instance, and with this, hopefully LM & Tata will set up joint venture only if GOI agreed to give them big enough order to make money on their investment. Some people may think, they are wasting money on an old platform, however, nothing comes cheap in this world and one has to pay price in some form to break the status quo. We should never talk in absolute numbers and think about flow on affect also. No doubt, Americans will make money from this, so would be thousands of people employed due to this decision, so would be small companies making basics nuts and bolts, GOI through taxes, and more importantly Indian economy when people will spend their money. Apologies for being bit obnoxious when explaining this with more granularity, however, I have learned from my time here on PDF, people love taking things in absolute terms.

The thought process as per my logic is, in the beginning Tata will hire lots of American engineers especially in lead capacity, this will create high tech IP in Indian eco-system and will propel Tata to do bigger and better things in 15-20 years time if thinking from conservative angle, and may be in 7-10 years time from optimistic perspective.

Tata being a private company will pay high end money and hopefully some of our brightest stay in India to make it better instead of helping Trump out in making America great again. Look what Tatas are doing at world level in auto and IT sector. Ultimately, they will become too big to fail and GOI has to give them big enough orders to keep people in the jobs. Lets look at US, they are even ready to shove democracy in throat to so many countries in the world just to keep high tech people in LM/Raytheon/Boeing employed.

Russians and French have taught Indians that TOT is myth and no one is going to help with Turbofan and India have to build a desi engine on its own. This will indirectly help them in the longer run, hopefully, in future private sector would be big enough to do innovative things and turbofan would be one of them. If nothing else, it can transfer the production of jets to private sector 100%, and HAL can focus on R&D which IMO should be the case anyway.

To Pakistani posters, me being a Punjabi knows you guys a touch better than others. We are emotional people and emotional people are not strategic thinkers. Lets see the examples here, having a enriched Uranium based nuclear bomb which is a simpler design than plutonium one however bit compromised from size perspective, no twin engine platform as deterrent strategic weapon and in recent past going public with Kulbhushan. These are examples of tactical decisions and nothing wrong but these, however, tactics can only take you that far, and strategic decisions change the courses of history.

Someone wise said, tactics win battles and strategy win wars.
 
I have very different take on this, IMO this is a strategic decision to create Indian's own LM/Boeing in long run. Government need to give incentive to private sector to invest money in the first instance, and with this, hopefully LM & Tata will set up joint venture only if GOI agreed to give them big enough order to make money on their investment. Some people may think, they are wasting money on an old platform, however, nothing comes cheap in this world and one has to pay price in some form to break the status quo. We should never talk in absolute numbers and think about flow on affect also. No doubt, Americans will make money from this, so would be thousands of people employed due to this decision, so would be small companies making basics nuts and bolts, GOI through taxes, and more importantly Indian economy when people will spend their money. Apologies for being bit obnoxious when explaining this with more granularity, however, I have learned from my time here on PDF, people love taking things in absolute terms.


I never disagreed with this.

I support the bid.
 
What I do not understand is why IAF needs one year to do limited trials on features it did not test last time. I mean 1 year seriously. At this pace we will be discussing this in 2025.
 
We all know the similar deal what happened with MMRCA u waste time and money of other parties end up buying 36 and still want some more discount which is not for a supplier to sell
 
We all know the similar deal what happened with MMRCA u waste time and money of other parties end up buying 36 and still want some more discount which is not for a supplier to sell
Even then the so called other parties are lining up to sell their wares. Let's not derail the discussion.
 

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