IAF to order around 100 more LCA Mark-1A fighter jets for over $8 billion

[indushek]

Can’t they be used during a war? Corollary - if they can’t be used during a war, then what is the use of these.

A valid question would be - feasibility of refuelling each and every aircraft, meant for missions across. That would be a logistical nightmare. Resources required would be phenomenal and it would also expose them to an adversary with decent surveillance capabilities.

Usually mid air refuellers are for long term flights

If the Chinese use the bases which are under 500 Km in distance to our borders, these assets can be targeted by long range missiles. I guess that's what he means

However given the terrain target acquistion will be hard for both sides. So they technically can use them, further in war one doesn't hold back danger as well to achieve mission objectives.

The below part is something only a veteran can confirm but

Typical ceiling of a fighter aircraft is about 50000 feet or around, and your average SAM range in height is 30000 feet (S400 has same range in height). So technically a aircraft with full load can reach that height, refuel and then dive down for its operation.

So many parameters are involved to pull this off, and for this means the threat is credible and real. Depends on how ready we are for it.

Isn’t IACCS meant to achieve that? China is a formidable adversary. We can’t hope to achieve plausible defence without taking the game to the highest levels.

We need variety of platforms. AWACS, drones with long on station times, small radars to fill the gaps and a robust net-centric network with adequate redundancies to ensure that we know, what exactly is happening across the border. It would be still not possible to fill all the gaps.

A layered AD at all possible likely targets should be able to neutralise any leakers.

At present we have a little of everything and not enough of anything. Our AWACS capability is dismal. Number of aircraft to get airborne and be available 24 x 7 is a grave concern.Communications are weak and not yet secure. It was exposed during Balakot.

Wishlist is long but ……..

Exactly and see how late we are to the party, current regime also started infra building along with military buildup only post 2020.

The Chinese on the other hand have built up so many airbases and are bringing their rocket force as well close to us. We are depending on US for sat coverage, which is not good always.

Many platforms are needed for us to be war ready

Geo politics plays a key role in escalation

With their economy going down and internal problems rising, the Chinese will look for a external point to lash out on. This is exactly what happened in 1962

I just hope and pray we don't slow down our build up or be indecisive anymore

the IAF will not see it that way.

The range/payload and endurance of the MRFA platform (Rafale is what I'm referring to) is greater than that of the Tejas M1kA (which is a light fighter after all) and the Tejas Mk2 (a Mirage-2000 class medium weight fighter).

And they are right in the sense that the Rafale is proven and extremely capable. I would not mind one bit if the IAF got another 90 odd of those.

Also, the existing 83 Tejas Mk1As were to be delivered till 2029. If this 90-100 more Tejas Mk1A order comes through HAL will have it's work cut out to churn out 24-36 per year. No excuses will work when the customer backs them.

There is also a rumor that Dassault may land a huge order from Saudi Arabia. If that happens, expect Dassault to set up a new assembly line in India with a new JV with a new Indian partner. Otherwise they simply won't be able to meet the massive backlog that will be in their lap.

It's time that we ditch this MMRCA drama and go for a G2G like the 36, and get 114 more. These are needed for the Eastern front badly.

 

[NG Missile Vessels]

The Chinese on the other hand have built up so many airbases and are bringing their rocket force as well close to us

From P Ravi Shankar

Communications are weak and not yet secure. It was exposed during Balakot.

Wishlist is long but ……..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1630881650228830212

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Lol, is that how you think BVR fights work? Just lob a missile from 150 km range and that's going to guarantee that you win an engagement?


This the issue with these max range claims that people who don't understand BVR tactics fall for. Only a chump of a fighter pilot will even think of attempting a 150 km long shot. Any other pilot worth his salt will easily avoid such a long range shot.

What the 150 km range indicates more is that the missile retains significant kinematics and speed at lower ranges which is where it is deadly. The dual pulse BVRAAM and the ducted ramjet type missile has both high speed and high maneuverability even upto 100 kms, and that is what makes them more dangerous.

I didn't say that once locked the aircraft over 110km and fired the missile that would guarantee for 100℅ hit.

I only said that it will provide you advantage to fire first, and once missile get fired, than next fighter will can't be in aggressive mode, the fighter pilot will warmed by sensors for incoming missile.

What he will do? Definitely he will try to to dodge the missile... And i strongly believe that every seconds will be important during the crucial time... Again, missiles are becoming more advance and touch to dodge them.

And more likely, again first fighter will be in better position to fire 2nd missile might within the range of 110km...

For that they have to recognize/find the plane first. Here Tejas has slight advantage as it has low RCS. Beyond that its just Cat and Mouse game!


That's the aim. Especially in this era, the electronics is what matters and not the pure aerodynamic stats and if we can have decent number( which has decent electronics) at the low price, then its the way to go. Moreover its will strengthen our eco-system!! In todays world, even the mighty Su30MKI appears to be obsolete unless we upgrade them. Hopefully we do it quickly!

Hal Tejas is having low RCS but can be detected over 110 km.

 

[NG Missile Vessels]

Exactly and see how late we are to the party, current regime also started infra building along with military buildup only post 2020

Chinese media on infra development in Arunachal

 

[MirageBlue]

That makes it 180+.. All Mig-21 and 29s can be replaced with Mk-1A now.. Easily a giant leap in capabilities.

The MiG-29UPGs are going to get a service life extension. Base Repair Depot 5 is going to handle that. Will allow them to serve another 10 years, till 2035.

I didn't say that once locked the aircraft over 110km and fired the missile that would guarantee for 100℅ hit.

I only said that it will provide you advantage to fire first, and once missile get fired, than next fighter will can't be in aggressive mode, the fighter pilot will warmed by sensors for incoming missile.

What he will do? Definitely he will try to to dodge the missile... And i strongly believe that every seconds will important during the crucial time... Again, missiles are becoming more advance and touch to dodge them.

And more likely, again first fighter will be in position to fire 2nd missile might within the range of 110km...



Hal Tejas is having low RCS but can be detected over 110 km.

And how do you know what is the range at which it can be detected? Detected by whom? Are you also assuming that the Tejas Mk1A won't know that it's been detected? Or that it won't have EW SPJ to cause signal interference?

And what is the range at which a J-10, F-16, JF-17 can be detected?

Just because we have got this great piece of news about the additional 90-100 Tejas Mk1As to be ordered, here's one of the best videos of the Tejas Mk1A ever filmed..

From Aviation Wall, presenting the Tejas Mk1A! What a beauty in the air!

 

[kaykay]

Usually mid air refuellers are for long term flights

If the Chinese use the bases which are under 500 Km in distance to our borders, these assets can be targeted by long range missiles. I guess that's what he means

However given the terrain target acquistion will be hard for both sides. So they technically can use them, further in war one doesn't hold back danger as well to achieve mission objectives.

The below part is something only a veteran can confirm but

Typical ceiling of a fighter aircraft is about 50000 feet or around, and your average SAM range in height is 30000 feet (S400 has same range in height). So technically a aircraft with full load can reach that height, refuel and then dive down for its operation.

So many parameters are involved to pull this off, and for us this means the threat is credible and real. Depends on how ready we are for it.

You might want to check that SAM engagement ceiling part again. Even Akash can engage aircrafts at 65000 ft or so. S-400 would engage even higher...may be beyond 80000 ft.

 

[indushek]

You might want to check that SAM engagement ceiling part again. Even Akash can engage aircrafts at 65000 ft or so. S-400 would engage even higher...may be beyond 80000 ft.

You are right, sorry I think I mixed up numbers.

S400 can go upto 98000 ft it seems

 

[migflug]

I am more interested about the weight reduction that the HAL claimed. Tejas had 500 KG+ of ballast weight, which HAL claimed to remove and substitute them with more LRUs !!

 

[indushek]

I am more interested about the weight reduction that the HAL claimed. Tejas had 500 KG+ of ballast weight, which HAL claimed to remove and substitute them with more LRUs !!

If you are talking about limited range due to excess weight, am providing here a detailed response to media coverage of LCA Mk1

Removing Some Media Fallacies About The Capabilities of The LCA Tejas Fighter | Delhi Defence Review

delhidefencereview.com

LCA Mk1 LSP weighed 7.5 tons due to carrying telemetry equipment, which weighed around 500 Kgs. Production fighter's weight is about 6950 Kgs, and later its brought down to 6560 Kgs.

Our media picks few stuff and then blows it up, and also compares to others to either chest thump or beast ourselves down. Truth is always in between somewhere

 

[migflug]

If you are talking about limited range due to excess weight, am providing here a detailed response to media coverage of LCA Mk1

Removing Some Media Fallacies About The Capabilities of The LCA Tejas Fighter | Delhi Defence Review

delhidefencereview.com

LCA Mk1 LSP weighed 7.5 tons due to carrying telemetry equipment, which weighed around 500 Kgs. Production fighter's weight is about 6950 Kgs, and later its brought down to 6560 Kgs.

Our media picks few stuff and then blows it up, and also compares to others to either chest thump or beast ourselves down. Truth is always in between somewhere

I am talking about the dead ballast weight which was acknowledged by the HAL that they will refine the plane further and thus making 300KG+ lighter. Some even claim upto 800KG. Lets see what happens!

 

[NG Missile Vessels]

 

[waz]

Would that be the entire Mig fleet replaced?

 

[VkdIndian]

I am talking about the dead ballast weight which was acknowledged by the HAL that they will refine the plane further and thus making 300KG+ lighter. Some even claim upto 800KG.

Doesn’t that give a lot of scope of installing new equipment? 300-800 Kgs is a quite a lot.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

the IAF will not see it that way.

The range/payload and endurance of the MRFA platform (Rafale is what I'm referring to) is greater than that of the Tejas M1kA (which is a light fighter after all) and the Tejas Mk2 (a Mirage-2000 class medium weight fighter).

And they are right in the sense that the Rafale is proven and extremely capable. I would not mind one bit if the IAF got another 90 odd of those.

Also, the existing 83 Tejas Mk1As were to be delivered till 2029. If this 90-100 more Tejas Mk1A order comes through HAL will have it's work cut out to churn out 24-36 per year. No excuses will work when the customer backs them.

There is also a rumor that Dassault may land a huge order from Saudi Arabia. If that happens, expect Dassault to set up a new assembly line in India with a new JV with a new Indian partner. Otherwise they simply won't be able to meet the massive backlog that will be in their lap.

The Mig-21 served as the backbone of the Indian Air Force at one point, being the most numerous aircraft. Currently, the Tejas is taking over the role previously held by the Mig-21.

Would that be the entire Mig fleet replaced?

My understanding is that the Indian Air Force currently possesses around 50 Mig-21 aircraft, and the squadron strength has diminished to 31. As a response, the IAF has taken the decision to acquire a substantial number of Tejas MK1A aircraft to bolster the squadron strength. The IAF aims to reach a minimum of 42 squadrons, which translates to approximately 840 fighter jets. The bulk of this strength will be composed of Tejas MK1 aircraft, with Tejas MK2 following suit.

 

[migflug]

Doesn’t that give a lot of scope of installing new equipment? 300-800 Kgs is a quite a lot.

It will be compensated by installing heavier Radars, adding few equipment's like refueler etc.