IAF to order around 100 more LCA Mark-1A fighter jets for over $8 billion

[NG Missile Vessels]

Are you talking about ground based radars or AWACS here, and of which side Indian or Chinese and for what kind of operation?
Since the airport is wedged in mountains, our radars can't make out equally like them right so hard to target?

Of course these are some of the limitations applicable to both sides, would be the shrunk radar horizons, thanks to the mountainous terrain

 

[Anonymous1994]

MASSIVE BREAKING NEWS !!! Indian Air Force to order 100 more Tejas Mk1A instead of planned 50 more order !!! This is huge boost for Indian Aerospace Industry and for the #Aatmanirbhar_Bharat campaign !!!

MASSIVE: IAF to order around 100 more LCA Tejas Mk1A fighter jets for over $8 billion: Report

The Indian Air Force (IAF) plans to place orders for around 100 more LCA Mark 1A fighter jets, news agency ANI reported on Thursday. The IAF plans to buy these

theigmp.org

https://twitter.com/x/status/1694738749291204907

 

[NG Missile Vessels]

The main point is the Chinese have airfields which are much closer to our borders, and we need to induct platforms faster

They will most likely come-under Indian artillery or rocket strike as said by @KesariDhawaj

 

[indushek]

That could be true.

But not very easy to implement even with adequate number of refuellers.
For launching an attack a decent number of aircraft would need to get airborne. Let’s take a conservative number of 30 aircraft package. Imagine refuelling so many aircraft. It would take some time to to refuel each aircraft.

India needs to have adequate surveillance capability. Any such activity of refuelling such a large number, can’t be missed by potent surveillance platforms.

I agree and this means, we need to get sufficient amount of potent surveillance platforms there. AEW systems have to be inducted in good number by us, as that border is pretty long.

We can't be sure of the ingress points due to this, and the terrain will make it hard for radars to detect on both sides. Continuous monitoring is not that easy for such long border, and that kind of terrain.

Without that, the enemy can pull of such risky stunts easily. Besides air refuellers aren't that strategic assets, few lots won't matter I guess.

All I am saying is, our IAF doctrine so far has been built with focus on Western front. The assets acquired will be for this as well. With the Eastern front heating up, a proper study has to be done and necessary platforms need to be inducted so that we are ready.

 

[kaykay]

True Mig 29 and Jaguars have been upgraded to make sure, they operate well beyond 2035.

This was done to make sure, we get the Mk2 in good number by then given the delay it saw.

My original post giving numbers, was to make the point that Mk1A in good numbers are needed which @migflug was saying isn't needed. As per Op's source we will be going for 40 + 183 Mk1A now as mentioned by IAF chief.

Overall we are aiming to dispense all these multiple platforms, and bring commonality.

True that. We have retired many Mig bis sqds without a proper replacement in past. Our sqd number was never supposed to drop at this level. These additional MK1A order will only offset that. Hopefully we can get up to 35 sqds atleast till 2030.

 

[NG Missile Vessels]

India needs to have adequate surveillance capability. Any such activity of refuelling such a large number, can’t be missed by potent surveillance platforms.

That means our sensor to shooter links have to be very precise including communications and procedures

 

[indushek]

Of course these are some of the limitations applicable to both sides, would be the shrunk radar horizons, thanks to the mountainous terrain

Yes and I am hoping we ramp up our AEW and radar coverage on that front, in addition to inducting combat platforms as well to make up for numbers.

Chinese numbers are far larger than ours, and we can't focus all our assets on the Eastern front in case of war. We have to take care of both East and West, so area denial systems are needed in good numbers as well.

True that. We have retired many Mig bis sqds without a proper replacement in past. Our sqd number was never supposed to drop at this level. These additional MK1A order will only offset that. Hopefully we can get up to 35 sqds atleast till 2030.

Indecision is the bane of our procurement process, first by the forces and then GOI.

I really hope Congress burns in hell, the decade of corruption they gave hit us so badly as well. Not that the current GOI is anything better, but at least they are doing something.

 

[NG Missile Vessels]

Yes and I am hoping we ramp up our AEW and radar coverage on that front, in addition to inducting combat platforms as well to make up for numbers

Interesting update from Jane's

Chinese numbers are far larger than ours, and we can't focus all our assets on the Eastern front in case of war. We have to take care of both East and West, so area denial systems are needed in good numbers as well

 

[VkdIndian]

So they'll use mid air refuellers during hot war?

Can’t they be used during a war? Corollary - if they can’t be used during a war, then what is the use of these.

A valid question would be - feasibility of refuelling each and every aircraft, meant for missions across. That would be a logistical nightmare. Resources required would be phenomenal and it would also expose them to an adversary with decent surveillance capabilities.

 

[NG Missile Vessels]

@indushek We do have dedicated radars to mount on mountain-tops and cover approaches from valleys and address the blind spots as much as possible. Here is 3D Low Level Light Weight Radar deployed by India

 

[MirageBlue]

yes, agreed...



Astra Mk1 - with range 110 KM.... We need Astra Mk2 with a range over 150 KM..

Example - If Chinese fighter fires a missile over 110 KM range, what Tejas will do with 110 KM range missiles?

Lol, is that how you think BVR fights work? Just lob a missile from 150 km range and that's going to guarantee that you win an engagement?

All missiles are capable in mid range. Extreme range is given as a marketing tool. Never has an American 120km range missile has ever shot down any plane or fast moving fighter at 120km. Chinese missiles are far less accurate but they claim unusually high numbers.

This the issue with these max range claims that people who don't understand BVR tactics fall for. Only a chump of a fighter pilot will even think of attempting a 150 km long shot. Any other pilot worth his salt will easily avoid such a long range shot.

What the 150 km range indicates more is that the missile retains significant kinematics and speed at lower ranges which is where it is deadly. The dual pulse BVRAAM and the ducted ramjet type missile has both high speed and high maneuverability even upto 100 kms, and that is what makes them more dangerous.

 

[indushek]

Can’t they be used during a war? Corollary - if they can’t be used during a war, then what is the use of these.

A valid question would be - feasibility of refuelling each and every aircraft, meant for missions across. That would be a logistical nightmare. Resources required would be phenomenal and it would also expose them to an adversary with decent surveillance capabilities.

Usually mid air refuellers are for long term flights

If the Chinese use the bases which are under 500 Km in distance to our borders, these assets can be targeted by long range missiles. I guess that's what he means

However given the terrain target acquistion will be hard for both sides. So they technically can use them, further in war one doesn't hold back danger as well to achieve mission objectives.

The below part is something only a veteran can confirm but

Typical ceiling of a fighter aircraft is about 50000 feet or around, and your average SAM range in height is 30000 feet (S400 has same range in height). So technically a aircraft with full load can reach that height, refuel and then dive down for its operation.

So many parameters are involved to pull this off, and for us this means the threat is credible and real. Depends on how ready we are for it.

 

[VkdIndian]

That means our sensor to shooter links have to be very precise including communications and procedures

Isn’t IACCS meant to achieve that? China is a formidable adversary. We can’t hope to achieve plausible defence without taking the game to the highest levels.

We can't be sure of the ingress points due to this, and the terrain will make it hard for radars to detect on both sides. Continuous monitoring is not that easy for such long border, and that kind of terrain.

We need variety of platforms. AWACS, drones with long on station times, small radars to fill the gaps and a robust net-centric network with adequate redundancies to ensure that we know, what exactly is happening across the border. It would be still not possible to fill all the gaps.

A layered AD at all possible likely targets should be able to neutralise any leakers.

At present we have a little of everything but not enough of anything. Our AWACS capability is dismal. Number of aircraft to get airborne and be available 24 x 7 is a grave concern.Communications are weak and not yet secure. It was exposed during Balakot.

Wishlist is long but ……..

 

[MirageBlue]

With the significant quantities of 223 Tejas MK1A and over 200 Tejas MK2, the necessity for MMRCA appears to be redundant.

the IAF will not see it that way.

The range/payload and endurance of the MRFA platform (Rafale is what I'm referring to) is greater than that of the Tejas M1kA (which is a light fighter after all) and the Tejas Mk2 (a Mirage-2000 class medium weight fighter).

And they are right in the sense that the Rafale is proven and extremely capable. I would not mind one bit if the IAF got another 90 odd of those.

Also, the existing 83 Tejas Mk1As were to be delivered till 2029. If this 90-100 more Tejas Mk1A order comes through HAL will have it's work cut out to churn out 24-36 per year. No excuses will work when the customer backs them.

There is also a rumor that Dassault may land a huge order from Saudi Arabia. If that happens, expect Dassault to set up a new assembly line in India with a new JV with a new Indian partner. Otherwise they simply won't be able to meet the massive backlog that will be in their lap.

 

[NG Missile Vessels]

I think Chinese have far more bases my friend, check the link below.

Chinese Airfields In And Around Tibet: A Geographical Overview

Analysis with images—mapping and geo-locating Chinese military infrastructure being built up along our borders.

swarajyamag.com

Ngari Gunsa is the nearest and fully operational.