IAF to induct 200-250 fifth generation fighters

[conworldus]

NEW DELHI: India will eventually spend over $25 billion to induct 250 advanced stealth fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA), on way to being co-developed with Russia, in what will be the country's biggest-ever defence project.

With a potent mix of super-manoeuvrability and supersonic cruising ability, long-range strike and high-endurance air defence capabilities, each FGFA will cost upwards of Rs 450 crore or around $100 million.

This will be in addition to the huge investment to be made in co-developing FGFA with cash-strapped Russia, as also the huge infrastructure required to base, operate and maintain such jets in India.

"We are looking to induct 200 to 250 FGFA in phases from 2017 onwards,'' confirmed IAF chief Air Chief Marshal P V Naik on Monday. As reported by TOI earlier, New Delhi and Moscow are looking to ink the FGFA preliminary design contract when Russian President Dmitry Medvedev comes visiting here in December.

Under intense negotiations for the last four-five years, the FGFA project will also figure in the talks between defence minister A K Antony and his Russian counterpart Anatoly Serdyukov on October 8.

Though the Indian FGFA will based on the Russian Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA, which flew for the first time this January at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur facility in Siberia, it will be built to IAF's specifications. It's already being touted as superior to the American F/A-22 `Raptor', the world's only operational FGFA as of now.

ACM Naik said the 30-tonne FGFA will be a "swing-role fighter, with very advanced avionics, stealth to increase survivability, enhanced lethality, 360 degree situational awareness, smart weapons, data-links, high-end mission computers'' and the like.

Along with 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft, which India plans to acquire in a $10.4 billion project, 270 Sukhoi-30MKIs contracted from Russia for around $12 billion and 120 indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft, the FGFA will be the mainstay of India's air combat fleet for the foreseeable future.

Even as the Army revises its war doctrine to factor in the worst-case scenario of a simultaneous two-front war with Pakistan and China, is IAF also preparing for the same?

"Our modernisation plans are based on the four pillars of `see, reach, hit and protect'...We prepare for a multi-faceted, multi-dimensional, multi-front war,'' said ACM Naik.

"But our approach is capability-based, not adversary-specific. Our modernisation drive is in tune with our nation's aspirations,'' he said, adding that India's strategic interests stretched "from Hormuz Strait to Malacca Strait and beyond''.

To a volley of questions on China and Pakistan, IAF chief said, "All neighbours, from the smallest to the largest, have to be watched with caution...Their capabilities have to be assessed...Anything that can upset the growth of our nation is a matter of concern.''

With the new planned inductions in the pipeline, IAF's obsolescence rate will come down to 20% by 2014-15 from the current 50% or so. "But this does not mean that we are not fully capable of defending the country from any air or space threat at the moment...We are,'' said ACM Naik.

Read more: India to spend over $25 billion to induct 250 5th-gen stealth fighters - The Times of India India to spend over $25 billion to induct 250 5th-gen stealth fighters - The Times of India

There is obviously no way that China will be able to match this... No money...

 

[Avatar]

There is obviously no way that China will be able to match this... No money...

Are you kidding me ?

China has more than twice the defence budget of India. Definitely, there is money.

However, what they lack is expertise. China is doing the 5th gen project completely by itself. We cannot say how far that will go, and there is no prototype we know of.

The only other comparable aircraft, F-22 is not for sale and PAK-FA will not be sold to anyone without India's consent.

 

[prototype]

Indian Army will get first batch of F-INSAS armed soldiers by 2012. F-INSAS consists of 100s of subsystems and logistical support systems. Most of them are under trial. In between 2012 to 2020/22 IA will be fully armed with F-INSAS. I think it will be largest defence project by that time.

when was the last time u heard about f-INSAS,this is 2010 and frankly i dont think by 2012 it will commence,even if it is as u say,still it will continue still after 2018

But we are getting first one INS KOLKATA and Vikramaditya in 2012 itself. It will enhance navy's capabilities by multiple times.

so u did not get me,we r here not talking about our capacity augmentation,we were discussing probably which systems will b still their on induction after 2018 the same time when FGFA start,so putting more pressure on our budget,i mean we need a much big budget

AD-1 and AD-2 will take time but AAD and PAD/PDV induction will start from 2012 as per Dr. Saraswat. They are also increasing the number of tests.

sure but Ad-1 and Ad-2 not before 2016 as far as i think

 

[Joe Shearer]

Dude if you guys can afford 250 Russian 5th gen birds, then you can also afford to buy atleast 130 F-22...

Too risky.

The entire Sea King fleet was immobilised for a couple of years because BAe stopped supply of spares on instructions from Washington.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I know... I was just stating that you unlike many other countries have the Power and the means to Buy whatever you want if they sell it to you....

And that's not always a good thing. Call centre boys and girls are giving the IAF cheap ways out. If things were tighter, then the Air Force would take indigenous technology development more seriously, it would behave more like the IsAF and the PLA AF. And look where those two are.

 

[KS]

Then why IAF chief ignored it in near future.. a lapse of memory perhaps??

Maybe he meant to say that these upgraded M2K will be on par with MMRCA (Rafale) with no difference in operational capabilities

 

[K^se]

Russia must be ecstatic about this, how India is still floating their economy..250 PAK-FA's, We have 166 F-22's, and going to procure 2,443 F-35 Lightning Variants worth 323 billion dollars. 450 of those F-35 are for the Navy itself, the rest going to be distributed amongst there respectable armed services..

-So, Still long way to go..

-But Great Accomplish to you guys, India has really come far in 60 years..

 

[Kinetic]

when was the last time u heard about f-INSAS,this is 2010 and frankly i dont think by 2012 it will commence,even if it is as u say,still it will continue still after 2018

Dude I think you didn't see the pics from DEFEXPO, various news and interviews. F-INSAS started in 2003/4. Most of the susbsystems are read and many of them are under field trials. They will induct them in phase by phase.

so u did not get me,we r here not talking about our capacity augmentation,we were discussing probably which systems will b still their on induction after 2018 the same time when FGFA start,so putting more pressure on our budget,i mean we need a much big budget

Than I think I replied to that query as well. Budget t be big as economy is growing fast and percentage spent on GDP might be increased.

sure but Ad-1 and Ad-2 not before 2016 as far as i think

Rite.

 

[noksss]

Guys indian economy can afford such a huge amount but i am not very happy with this because i dont how much percentage of this money is going to benefit indian companies. And by seeing this news i feel we are going to be a major importer of all critical technologies
atleast upto 2030 even after 2030 i dont think DRDO or HAl is capable enough to produce such a high technology work

 

[sancho]

Hi guys, it was reported before that India will get 250 FGFAs and there are even reports about Pak Fa / FGFA to cost around $80 - 100 million each, so even if the price would increase a bit, we have the money to procure them. However, what makes me curious at the moment is, can we also afford to maintain them?

If we take to account what was reported about the US fighters, that not only the development and production costs increased, but that maintaining a 5.th gen fighter is also clearly more expensive and what about 5.th gen fighters that are in the class of the expensive Flanker series?
Russian fighters in general are cheap to procure, but expensive to maintain, if that will remain the same in future too and we add increased maintenance for 5. gen techs, Pak Fa / FGFA could be very expensive right?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Guys indian economy can afford such a huge amount but i am not very happy with this because i dont how much percentage of this money is going to benefit indian companies. And by seeing this news i feel we are going to be a major importer of all critical technologies
atleast upto 2030 even after 2030 i dont think DRDO or HAl is capable enough to produce such a high technology work

Answer to your question: 33% of the purchase price.

Hi guys, it was reported before that India will get 250 FGFAs and there are even reports about Pak Fa / FGFA to cost around $80 - 100 million each, so even if the price would increase a bit, we have the money to procure them. However, what makes me curious at the moment is, can we also afford to maintain them?

If we take to account what was reported about the US fighters, that not only the development and production costs increased, but that maintaining a 5.th gen fighter is also clearly more expensive and what about 5.th gen fighters that are in the class of the expensive Flanker series?
Russian fighters in general are cheap to procure, but expensive to maintain, if that will remain the same in future too and we add increased maintenance for 5. gen techs, Pak Fa / FGFA could be very expensive right?

As it happens, we have been doing these exercises for sixty plus years. Be assured that whole brigades of accountants sit on these figures and project every option and future possibility, and that these are available to the decision-makers before a decision. If they choose to ignore it, that is a different matter; they have the information, it is not vague, it is clear and actionable.

My suggestion: leave it to the Defence Ministry Finance Division; just to remind you, there are four departments in the MoD, and this Division, under its own Secretary (Finance) MoD.

In case, on receiving this assurance, our fretful minds turn to the aftermath, the Secretary has a counterpart, the CG Audit assigned solely to Defence.

Regards,

 

[conworldus]

Are you kidding me ?

China has more than twice the defence budget of India. Definitely, there is money.

However, what they lack is expertise. China is doing the 5th gen project completely by itself. We cannot say how far that will go, and there is no prototype we know of.

The only other comparable aircraft, F-22 is not for sale and PAK-FA will not be sold to anyone without India's consent.

Exactly. We Chinese dumb dumb. India is way head of us.

 

[jha]

Exactly. We Chinese dumb dumb. India is way head of us.

Kab jaago tabhi sawera....
Sorry cant translate it..

 

[sancho]

Be assured that whole brigades of accountants sit on these figures and project every option and future possibility, and that these are available to the decision-makers before a decision. If they choose to ignore it, that is a different matter; they have the information, it is not vague, it is clear and actionable.

But that is the point that makes me so curious, because pretty much everything on the Pak Fa / FGFA will be new and the costs are only projections. I guess the US made their own projections also and still calculated very different figures than what they have now right?
However, that will be in an interesting point when Pak Fa and FGFA will enter their service life.

 

[rsingh]

India to spend over $25 billion to induct 250 5th-gen stealth fighters - The Times of India

Makes MRCA look like little girl.