IAF Plans For 125 AMCAs

[White and Green with M/S]

Hmmm. But I feel that PAC will do a Tie up with China and Turkey to merge projects so that it is fast tracked.

Yes most probably Air-frame development from Chinese help and Avionics/AESA from Turkish help, we are not satisfied Chinese Avionics much especially their electronic countermeasures

 

[HostileInsurgent]

Yes most probably Air-frame development from Chinese help and Avionics

Engine? Russian and Chinese engines require a lot of maintenance especially the Chinese ones and the Chinese ones are smokey as well because they are in the primitive stages of development and will take time to mature Fully.

 

[Osiris]

2027 ? 20 years after its start.. wow..

Well PAC does a lot more.. like integrating SOWs with JF17s if you know what I mean

Btw 44% of Samosa is indigenous while 58 of JF17 is made in Pakistan... the difference..

Pakistan just assembles 58 percent of jf 17 with knocked down kits imported from China.

Su 30 MKI is more Indian than JF 17 is Pakistani.

 

[The Maverick]

I have no doubt a Amca,will be built
but mass manufacture is still.indian Achilles,heel.

we have all scientists and engineers,to build,
fighter a missles,flight control.even radars but out ability to mass manufacture stinks

 

[HostileInsurgent]

I have no doubt a Amca,will be built
but mass manufacture is still.indian Achilles,heel.

we have all scientists and engineers,to build,
fighter a missles,flight control.even radars but out ability to mass manufacture stinks

Yes production will be a nightmare if HAL doesn’t do kaamchori.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

No, intake is different this internally it quite different from J-20

lol instead of trolling go to Project AZM thread, and research, and AZM will come with lots of friendly countries help, Turkey/China

Instead of ranting if you show these, then it be better for your argument. Show these research happening in Turkey for Project Azm

 

[The Maverick]

There,is no official scaled model or serious sighting of the Pakistani azm project .

to me it is more a,Pakistani project to acquire partnership and connection to a,certified,real fifth gen project with China or turkey as a partner and suggest this is,our route to a,potential fifth gen fighter..

either get China to tweak the j35 to pak requirements or to try and join the turkish project but that may require serious funding support.

I do not believe pakistan has or plans to design and conceptulisw it's own fifth gen fighter . if this,was the case we would see far more than just the project heading name project azm.

I could be,wrong but these projects in India turkey Japan or korea are costing between 5 and 7 billion dollars.that is,serious money for 3 or 4 prototypes

this is where induan decision to build tejas at home with imported tech in parts was,much better long run than just a,made to order fighter from.china was,so much more beneficial to us Indians.
it laid the foundation to mark 2 and Amca and uttam aesa and Astra,bvr and rudram strike missles..
we now design and build what we want

 

[TheSnakeEatingMarkhur]

You mean that Rawalpindigenous JF-17 with 0 Pakistani components? .

I mean JF17 which is 58% made in Pakistan... Atleast we dont import its Radar we make KLJ7 in Pakistan and by 2022 KLJ7A will be made in Avionics Production Factory

And this is just one thing many others are made in Pakistan..

Instead of ranting if you show these, then it be better for your argument. Show these research happening in Turkey for Project Azm

View attachment 723366

View attachment 723367

14 years ans this AMCA has not even a single prototype

There,is no official scaled model or serious sighting of the Pakistani azm project .

to me it is more a,Pakistani project to acquire partnership and connection to a,certified,real fifth gen project with China or turkey as a partner and suggest this is,our route to a,potential fifth gen fighter..

either get China to tweak the j35 to pak requirements or to try and join the turkish project but that may require serious funding support.

I do not believe pakistan has or plans to design and conceptulisw it's own fifth gen fighter . if this,was the case we would see far more than just the project heading name project azm.

I could be,wrong but these projects in India turkey Japan or korea are costing between 5 and 7 billion dollars.that is,serious money for 3 or 4 prototypes

this is where induan decision to build tejas at home with imported tech in parts was,much better long run than just a,made to order fighter from.china was,so much more beneficial to us Indians.
it laid the foundation to mark 2 and Amca and uttam aesa and Astra,bvr and rudram strike missles..
we now design and build what we want

AZM will be basic 5th gen designed by PAC not J35 or TFX bit yeah Turkish and Chinese help will be taken and nothing wrong with learning from em... we can't waste 1 and half decade like india did with AMCA

 

[HostileInsurgent]

I mean JF17 which is 58% made in Pakistan... Atleast we dont import its Radar we make KLJ7 in Pakistan and by 2022 KLJ7A will be made in Avionics Production Factory

Even BEL produces ELM 2052 in India, and our Tejas MK1A will come with our indigenous UTTAM AESA Radar not Israeli one, but at the end KLJ-7A is chinese radar.

14 years ans this AMCA has not even a single prototype

Hahaha wow so funny hahahahaha
The project was started in 2010 so it is just 11 Years and design is frozen, and its been 4 years and your Azm is still sticking around your C-130’s tail and no model or design is public. And only in Pakistan an aircraft becomes a prototype in less than 10 years.

It can be a 1 and a half decade wastage for you guys only but at the end you will have to roam around them for maintenance and spares and subsystems. And we didn’t waste a decade, we made our own Indigenous design which is now under prototype building phase. And how will Turkey help you when they themselves are taking help of Europe and Russia in its development? Our AMCA is our own design and can be modified by us whenever we want.

 

[TheSnakeEatingMarkhur]

Even BEL produces ELM 2052 in India, and our Tejas MK1A will come with our indigenous UTTAM AESA Radar not Israeli one, but at the end KLJ-7A is chinese radar.

Hahaha wow so funny hahahahaha
The project was started in 2010 so it is just 11 Years and design is frozen, and its been 4 years and your Azm is still sticking around your C-130’s tail and no model or design is public. And only in Pakistan an aircraft becomes a prototype in less than 10 years.
View attachment 723410

It can be a 1 and a half decade wastage for you guys only but at the end you will have to roam around them for maintenance and spares and subsystems. And we didn’t waste a decade, we made our own Indigenous design which is now under prototype building phase. And how will Turkey help you when they themselves are taking help of Europe and Russia in its development? Our AMCA is our own design and can be modified by us whenever we want.

We have ability to produce 80% of JF17 in Pakistan but workshare agreement is of 58% max..
As for AMCA..it was started in 2006.. not 2010.. nearly 15 years an no prototype

As for AZM it is in 4th design refining face and a (assumed) small model was seen in a recent meeting...

And it is wastage when you dont focus on building base and try to build a house we have laid basis for our industry sinse 1972.. now PAC KAMRA is one of few aeronautical industries owned by an AF/State...

And Turkey has a good avionics industry.. so help can be taken

 

[HostileInsurgent]

We have ability to produce 80% of JF17 in Pakistan but workshare agreement is of 58% max..
As for AMCA..it was started in 2006.. not 2010.. nearly 15 years an no prototype

Name even a Single Pakistani component of JF-17 which is designed and developed in Pakistan, i.e. The Original Equipment Manufacturer is Pakistan. You don’t even have semiconductor fabs then how do you make avionics? By importing and assembling them and calling them indigenous, you don’t even have wind tunnel testing facilities, you just assemble chinese parts and call it indigenous.

As for AMCA..it was started in 2006.. not 2010.. nearly 15 years an no prototype

AMCA was officially started in 2010, don’t twist facts, and where is your AZM? 4 years and not even a single display model at any airshow...

And it is wastage when you dont focus on building base and try to build a house

Says the ones who don’t even have basic infrastructure for component manufacturing or R&D to the ones who have all types of infrastructure for R&D and production.

 

[Khan vilatey]

Trolling? Okay, why don't you show us the wind tunnel model or RCS test model? That is the first step in designing the aircraft.

Laughingly, Pakistanis believe the are post-PDR.

I have heard a lot of Indian members talk about wind tunnels in Pakistan or the lack there of.

for all those disillusioned Indians who are avid believers in the BJP/RSS propaganda machine, following is a listing of Pakistan’s numerous wind tunnel facilities

Wind tunnel Facilities in Pakistan

Many indians think and majority of pakistanis dont know whether pakistan has wind tunnel facilities or not The oldest wind tunnel facility dates back to 80's when Pakistan started Missile development program And DESTO was being appointed to do the design work DESTO was established in...

defence.pk

Pakistan builds many long range wepons system that all fly. You can not design this without wind tunnels.

k

 

[TheSnakeEatingMarkhur]

Name even a Single Pakistani component of JF-17 which is designed and developed in Pakistan, i.e. The Original Equipment Manufacturer is Pakistan. You don’t even have semiconductor fabs then how do you make avionics? By importing and assembling them and calling them indigenous, you don’t even have wind tunnel testing facilities, you just assemble chinese parts and call it indigenous.


AMCA was officially started in 2010, don’t twist facts, and where is your AZM? 4 years and not even a single display model at any airshow...

Says the ones who don’t even have basic infrastructure for component manufacturing or R&D to the ones who have all types of infrastructure for R&D and production.

There are many components and at the end of the day 58% of JF17 is made in Pakistan...

We have AMF which produces avionics including KLJ7 and Pakistan has had wind tunnels since 80s mate

AMCA started in 2006 around 2006 as it is mentioned in here... https://www.defenseworld.net/news/8254/Is_India_Abandoning_the_AMCA_Project_

Lolx infrastructure which is able to produce only 6 Tejas a year while a country without infrastructure is making 20 jets a year.. as for R&D we have Kamra Aviation City as well as CENTAIC now

CENTAIC will take EW capabilities of PAF to next level..

 

[HostileInsurgent]

I have heard a lot of Indian members talk about wind tunnels in Pakistan or the lack there of.

for all those disillusioned Indians who are avid believers in the BJP/RSS propaganda machine, following is a listing of Pakistan’s numerous wind tunnel facilities



Pakistan builds many long range wepons system that all fly. You can not design this without wind tunnels.

k

Do you have semiconductor fabs or not?

 

[VkdIndian]

Name even a Single Pakistani component of JF-17

That’s not very kind of you to ask such tough questions.

I consider all this to be fault of China. These cunning Chinese decided to allow the use of word ‘JOINT’ which has created sudden sense of capability in Pakistan.
Otherwise, technical capability and know how wise even Pakistanis know where they stand. This word JOINT has slowly permeated into their minds and finally they think that they have arrived on the big stage. Assembling from kits is what they have been able to achieve mostly. Fabrication of panels is also high on the capability claim of a few guys here.

If we follow the same criteria, SU-30 is much more joint than JF-17 any day.

As far as AMCA goes, my fingers are crossed. Developers might be able to produce in the given timeframe, I still have a doubt about the production capability. Although, by that time LCA programme would have proven that aspect either this way or that way.

As an Indian flag my hope is for an encouraging outcome but I would save my cheers for later when I really see something in air.