IAF Pilots: Among the best

[aimarraul]

Cant you provide something better than oneliners,amiraul........respect the persons who fight for their country.,.

they don't need my respect,all they need is better trainer aircraft than Mig-21，high quality indian-made aircraft accessories，my respect is not gonna save their lives,and it's irrelevant.

 

[z9-ec]

I think you as a Military Professional must also know that IAF was not using their radars in Red Flag. So a plane without a radar is like a man without eyes. How could they have differentiated. Is it quite hard to understand such an easy thing? Or is it easy to mock others' credentials based on something biased?

Yeah right, the argument of SU-30 MKIs participating without radars is complete and utter BS presented by the IAF.

News flash for you, why spend millions of USDs to participate in Red flag 08 and transporting Su-30 MKIs and IL-78 without radars into a simulated air combat?

The best argument could have been down graded radars, but to say they did not use radars at all is complete irrelevant.

I think the USAF pilot that vilified the IAF pilots and IAF aircrafts was absolutely correct in his assessment.

 

[Jabar 1]

Despite enormous difficulties, shortages and internal challenges, the IAF clearly dominated the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), stopping the armoured offensive in its tracks while providing nearly all the required direct air support to the army.

Like you said don't go on articles you are doing the same. Plus who said PAF was clearly dominated by IAF. Do you even know when IAF attacked Sargodha how many of your fighters returned, Look it up that will give you some idea.

Second Sir Muradk doesn't call any one for help in a debate if members respect and love him thats there way of respecting him because they know who Muradk is and what he has done and achieved.

Third people like Sir Rathor and 3 other AVM's of IAF are very good friends of his, 1 of them had a dog fight with him in 1979 and later in USA they became best friends. So I am sure he knows more than you think.

 

[Screaming Skull]

IAF COMBAT KILLS - 1971 INDO-PAK AIR WAR​

http://www.orbat.com/site/cimh/iaf/IAF_1971_kills.pdf

 

[Screaming Skull]

Like you said don't go on articles you are doing the same. Plus who said PAF was clearly dominated by IAF. Do you even know when IAF attacked Sargodha how many of your fighters returned, Look it up that will give you some idea.

What you quoted is the author's own opinion and I don't attach much weight to that. Guess we are on the same page on that. My intention for posting that article was only to highlight the glorious achievements of the veteran marshal Arjan and not the IAF or PAF per say. I don't know what your opinion about Arjan is, but he is surely a war hero on this side of the border.

Second Sir Muradk doesn't call any one for help in a debate if members respect and love him thats there way of respecting him because they know who Muradk is and what he has done and achieved.

Third people like Sir Rathor and 3 other AVM's of IAF are very good friends of his, 1 of them had a dog fight with him in 1979 and later in USA they became best friends. So I am sure he knows more than you think.

Guess this was meant for some other member as I never ever questioned the credibility of Muradk Sahib.

 

[anathema]

Yeah right, the argument of SU-30 MKIs participating without radars is complete and utter BS presented by the IAF.

News flash for you, why spend millions of USDs to participate in Red flag 08 and transporting Su-30 MKIs and IL-78 without radars into a simulated air combat?

The best argument could have been down graded radars, but to say they did not use radars at all is complete irrelevant.

I think the USAF pilot that vilified the IAF pilots and IAF aircrafts was absolutely correct in his assessment.

You are correct in one way...IAF operated radars on training mode (which severly curtails the capabilities). In between the whole point of the excercise was to simulate battlefield capabilties with AWAC's in picture. RADAR user in this kind of scenario's is minimized considerabley. One of the reasons attributed to the ok performance from IAF was because of the incompatibility between russian and american systems due to which they were not able to distinguish friend from foe leading to fraticides.
This was explained in col lecture.

 

[blain2]

Let me put an end to this debate this way, the title of the thread states "IAF pilots: Among the best". As such there is no denying that IAF has some very good pilots, however they are among the best because they have had to fight against those who were also among the best.

Each Air Force has some very, very fine pilots owing to their experience, their ability to derive more benefit out of the training system available to them and simply by virtue of learning more each time they take to the air.

Just be happy that you have some very formidable aviators on each side of the border who actually in an interesting way lend to the peace in the region.

 

[holysaturn]

Koi hal nahi

Please check the threads and you will find this topic so don't waist space.
We all know how good you are in Cope India USAF had to play according to IAF rules. We all get to see the real IAF in Red Flag, Yeah they are the best thats why they kept shooting there own planes.
Yes no doubt in 65, 71 your pilots were outstanding but today
no way.

these were not true.usaf distanced from his comments.dont repeat the same thing.
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2008/11/livefist-column-vishnu-som-first-hand.html

 

[paritosh]

Yeah right, the argument of SU-30 MKIs participating without radars is complete and utter BS presented by the IAF.

News flash for you, why spend millions of USDs to participate in Red flag 08 and transporting Su-30 MKIs and IL-78 without radars into a simulated air combat?

The best argument could have been down graded radars, but to say they did not use radars at all is complete irrelevant.

I think the USAF pilot that vilified the IAF pilots and IAF aircrafts was absolutely correct in his assessment.

when a radar transmits...it detects by sending it's transmitted energy which gets reflected from the target...and is a good measure of a radar's performance is the amount of transmitted energy by the radar...and so the bars-m wasn't allowed to function in it's full capacity because the russians obviously did not want it to.
bars-m is supposed to be a very good PESA radar...with a high scan rate and a large forward looking antenna aperture...
su-30 functions with russian/indian/israeli avionics and was not meant to hook'p wth the western awacs(Nato)...
the difficulty in cross-awaac hooking can be established from the fact that the israelis took years to get the phalcon ready for the indian data-links...

 

[z9-ec]

when a radar transmits...it detects by sending it's transmitted energy which gets reflected from the target...and is a good measure of a radar's performance is the amount of transmitted energy by the radar...and so the bars-m wasn't allowed to function in it's full capacity because the russians obviously did not want it to.
bars-m is supposed to be a very good PESA radar...with a high scan rate and a large forward looking antenna aperture...
su-30 functions with russian/indian/israeli avionics and was not meant to hook'p wth the western awacs(Nato)...
the difficulty in cross-awaac hooking can be established from the fact that the israelis took years to get the phalcon ready for the indian data-links...

I know what RCS is and what it means.

My point was to emphasize that how can the Su-30 MKI without an active radar, participate in a simulated air fight. My post is MKI specific not refering to AWACS.

Further more, if the technology is classified why send the aircraft for a simulated air combat in the first place? why spend millions to participate for a joy ride? it does not make sense. The USAF pilot also mentioned the huge RCS of the MKIs making them detectable.

 

[anathema]

My point was to emphasize that how can the Su-30 MKI without an active radar, participate in a simulated air fight. My post is MKI specific not refering to AWACS.

The question is why cant it fight in a simulated air fight scenario without active radar ? With Awacs acting as a air control tower there is no need for radars to be active. The aim of the excercise was to co-ordinate air space battle management with active AWACS support. SU-30 MKI radar was in a training mode which was used to lock on targets and thats it.

Further more, if the technology is classified why send the aircraft for a simulated air combat in the first place? why spend millions to participate for a joy ride? it does not make sense.

For the same reason why does every military conduct routine training excersises .i.e IAF would want to find the strength and weakness of this planes. The only way to do this is to pitch it against other fine planes from other countries. Col pointed out good points , this wouldnt have been known if IAF never went for those excersises. Further more i am pretty sure IAF might have gone into retrospection mode and would have analyzed and fixed their training regime according to the US training excercise. These excercises are not luxury, these are needed; whether one can afford them is a different matter altogether.

The USAF pilot also mentioned the huge RCS of the MKIs making them detectable.

True and nobody is refuting it. This is know to everyone that Su 30 mki lights up the radar screen, but then point is other plane/fighter should be able to actively engage it and that is exactly what a Air dominance fighter prevents it to do.

 

[maverick2009]

F15 have big RCS they stil kick *** wen needed.

Mig21 HAS A SMALL RCS and TEJAS RCS is even smaller does that make them better than F15s

RCS is one of a dozen factors.

As for Indian Pilots its nice to see a formidable world class Air Superemacy fighter like MKI in indian colours.

Even better wen they have the confidence/arrogance to go up against the best air forces in the world in military excercises.

Its shows the French brits israelis and the Americans want to know about their MKI AND work with them..

Only the best get to fly at Red Flag or against Typhoon in UK skies.

Its all good experience makes indian Air force better prepared

 

[SQ8]

these were not true.usaf distanced from his comments.dont repeat the same thing.
LiveFist: LiveFist Column: Vishnu Som first-hand on what really happened at Red Flag 08

It was done after the whole of India cried foul and blew horns about the massive "humiliation" it felt due to this video. face it, Your nation likes to cry about little things,big things.. anything.
Any nation with greater self esteem would have invited the US back to India to prove otherwise instead of making the media and diplomatic showboat that is usually done in India.
Even I think the Indians have good and excellent pilots, There was a certain downturn during the economic boom and some pilots were lost to the airlines. But others have stayed and are fairly good at their jobs.
I have already stated my opinion about the red flag video earlier. And from my point there were some very praiseworthy points in it for the Indian pilots. Sadly, the whole of the Indian media & the nation in general only wished to see praise and praise alone.

 

[Jabar 1]

It was done after the whole of India cried foul and blew horns about the massive "humiliation" it felt due to this video. face it, Your nation likes to cry about little things,big things.. anything.
Any nation with greater self esteem would have invited the US back to India to prove otherwise instead of making the media and diplomatic showboat that is usually done in India.
Even I think the Indians have good and excellent pilots, There was a certain downturn during the economic boom and some pilots were lost to the airlines. But others have stayed and are fairly good at their jobs.
I have already stated my opinion about the red flag video earlier. And from my point there were some very praiseworthy points in it for the Indian pilots. Sadly, the whole of the Indian media & the nation in general only wished to see praise and praise alone.

No thats what i call a response Excellent point

My question is to our friends across the boarder if your Radars were off and the Airborne Warning and Control System was feeding them the info how come they told the SU to shoot there own planes. This only means 1 the pilots were incompetent 2 the AWCS fed them the wrong info which in other words they were incompetent. But I know Rathore he is one of the best pilots in IAF, I met him at dinner at the Indian Embassy an excellent pilot no doubt, We discussed a lot about Su vs F-16 and it was very interesting and I still remember he said it doesn't make much difference of what block you are flying it all drains down to your experience. Mark my word one day he will become the IAF COAS. By the way if you Indians don't know Rathore is the son of
Air Marshal D N Rathore (retd). My father friend.

 

[anathema]

No thats what i call a response Excellent point

My question is to our friends across the boarder if your Radars were off and the Airborne Warning and Control System was feeding them the info how come they told the SU to shoot there own planes. This only means 1 the pilots were incompetent 2 the AWCS fed them the wrong info which in other words they were incompetent.

1) the IAF did 'shoot down' some 'friendlies' and that was assessed and attributed to the IAF not being networked. However, what the Colonel did not bring out were the two essential reasons for this. Firstly, this occurred mainly when the AWACS was not available (unserviceable) and controlling was done by GCI. More significantly it happened during extremely poor controlling by their operators, this fact being acknowledged during debriefs and the controllers being admonished accordingly. 'Accents' were perhaps the main culprit here, which very often led to American controllers not being able to understand Indian calls.

2) the F-15C and other USAF fighters had the same number of fratricides as the IAF ! Considering they are well networked, yet their pilots shot down the same number of 'friendlies'. This was not only a major concern but also turned out to be a major source of embarrassment as the USAF had everything -- Link 16, IFF Mode 4 etc and the IAF had nothing. Under the Rules of Engagement, they did not even permit the IAF to use data link within themselves. All cases of USAF fratricide were covered in the next day's mass briefing as lessons learnt by concerned aircrew. In the IAF, the incidents were covered by concerned controllers, and attributed to lack of adequate integration, excessive R/T congestion and poor controlling.

Above points was published by a defence journalist.

Secondly are you talking about the same Rathore who appeared in Line of duty programme ?