IAF needs 39 squadrons for 2-front war, has only 34'

[meena24]

In order to have 45 Squadrons IAF has to Induct Dassault Rafale immediately.

IAF must also opt to purchase another 4.5 generation aircraft like Mig-35 or Gripen NG with dedicated ground attack capablity.

If Mig-35 is bought logistics would be a easy task for IAF.

In my opinion Dassault Rafale around 189 ( not sure whether we will buy 189 or 125) If 189 means it would be better it would replace all Mig-21's in our inventory.

Mig-35 in 100 numbers would replace all our Mig-27 aircraft.

IAF can induct HAL Tejas simultaneously, Regarding Tejas Block 2, India must approach Israel and France for removing Deficiencies in the aircraft. This would help to IAF to attain its wish for 45 Squadrons. I Hope Total number of LCA should be 120.

Finally Once we start Inducting FGFA we can phase out Jaguar Aircraft's.

When I was browsing a defence forum last week I happen to read a article, At 2004 beginning India finalized orders for 40 Mirage 2000 aircraft. But the deal was delayed due to elections and after the elections were over the deal was scrapped, Seriously i think that was a mistake, If we have inducted those 40 Mirages we could have phased out 40 Mig-21 not the Mig-21 with bison upgrades or 40 Mig-27 Jets.

 

[BDforever]

@sancho, Operational 5th gen fleet is beyond 2025, and sqdn strength is falling every year, in next 8 years we will lose 12 sqdns of mig 21's and 6 sqdns of Mig 27's. It makes perfect sense to induct large numbers of LCA mk2, I dont know if it will happen, I sure hope it will!!!

As far as UCAV's are concerned, I dont think IAF will hedge it's doctrine on concepts. UCAV's come into picture with complete air superiority, in clear and present danger, such scenario is difficult to achieve with smaller conflict window.

In any variant of CSD or alike doctrine, any ground movement needs to be preceded by heavy air interdiction and followed by CAS. LCA mk2 as a agile nimble dog fighter fits the bill for CAP's and dedicated ground attack light IBG's perfectly.

I might be completely wrong here, but a capable LCA mk2 has the potential to change the power equation in the subcontinent.

is their any chance to sell LCA mk2 to BD ? just asking

 

[MilSpec]

is their any chance to sell LCA mk2 to BD ? just asking

No.. LCA mk2 wont be able to keep up with IAF demands, there is no chance of exporting it not just to BD but anyone.

 

[meena24]

@sancho,
In any variant of CSD or alike doctrine, any ground movement needs to be preceded by heavy air interdiction and followed by CAS. LCA mk2 as a agile nimble dog fighter fits the bill for CAP's and dedicated ground attack light IBG's perfectly.

I might be completely wrong here, but a capable LCA mk2 has the potential to change the power equation in the subcontinent.

Regarding to A2G capabilities IAF should opt for any other 4.5 Generation Aircraft, you very well know the fact even Tejas Block 1 has not received its Final operational Clearance. I am not sure whether we can Induct HAL Tejas Block 2 before 2018. IAF should have finalized MRCA Earlier. IAF should either go for more Rafales bringing the number 250 or they must go for Mig-35.

I think by citing both China and Pak in one line indians try to elevate themselves to a level which they dont deserve or most probably its how their govt tries to bluff their public and blind them from the reality that these 39 squadrons wont be even enough for Pak alone with all its smart bombs , cruise and ballistic missiles ..Dragging china into this thing is like a goat against a lion and the goat which will be gutted out is going to be india so imagine what a rumble india would be if she ever tries to take on both China and Pak altogether.

Had india been what she likes to believe herself to be there wouldnt have been still 7 lac active army in kashmir just against a handful of freedom fighters and it also reflects their army standards.

SOME PEOPLE ALWAYS HAVE A HABBIT OF SHOOTING FROM OTHER SHOULDERS,

FIRST IT WAS MOHAMMED GHAZINI AND GHORI FROM AFGHANISTAN

IN THE 1980'S IT WAS USA

NOW IT IS CHINA.

 

[MilSpec]

Regarding to A2G capabilities IAF should opt for any other 4.5 Generation Aircraft, you very well know the fact even Tejas Block 1 has not received its Final operational Clearance. I am not sure whether we can Induct HAL Tejas Block 2 before 2018. IAF should have finalized MRCA Earlier. IAF should either go for more Rafales bringing the number 250 or they must go for Mig-35.

LCA has adequate A2G capabilities, And My entire narrative is based on a successful capable Mk2 Multirole a/c. LCA will cost 1/3rd of a rafale.

I was a big fan of Mig 35 but thats a dead fish now. IAF is not interested in Mig 35, case closed.

 

[Abingdonboy]

is their any chance to sell LCA mk2 to BD ? just asking

No.. LCA mk2 wont be able to keep up with IAF demands, there is no chance of exporting it not just to BD but anyone.

Also with a US engine and certain Israeli avionics and weapons I don't know how receptive the US and Israel would be to India's request to export this bird and how receptive BD would be to getting such a bird with the above.

 

[meena24]

LCA has adequate A2G capabilities, And My entire narrative is based on a successful capable Mk2 Multirole a/c. LCA will cost 1/3rd of a rafale.

I was a big fan of Mig 35 but thats a dead fish now. IAF is not interested in Mig 35, case closed.

Then what exactly LCA block 1? One of our member has quoted in a earlier thread, Since LCA block 1 was not tested BVR missile yet, It was not inducted into IAF.

IAF should atleast go for more Force Multipliers such as Phalcon AWECS so that we can build our Operational doctrine around these aircraft until we get LCA block 2 and Dassault Rafale. Pakistan Airforce has got around 9 AWECS where as we have only 3.

 

[MilSpec]

Then what exactly LCA block 1? One of our member has quoted in a earlier thread, Since LCA block 1 was not tested BVR missile yet, It was not inducted into IAF.

IAF should atleast go for more Force Multipliers such as Phalcon AWECS so that we can build our Operational doctrine around these aircraft until we get LCA block 2 and Dassault Rafale. Pakistan Airforce has got around 9 AWECS where as we have only 3.

LCA has fired R73 and Python V both, I dont know where you are getting your information from, the reason for FOC delay has been engine power, change in IAF requirement, AoA,
Not sub munitions or A2G capability.

PAF has 9 Awecs and we have 3????? are you sure about that buddy

 

[sancho]

If and only if LCA MK-2 didn't meet the dead line. Which is most likely though

No, since even the deadline of 2018 is way too late to produce large numbers of it.

@sancho, is this official (that the RuAF are going for 2 different blocks/tranches of the PAK-FA)? And I thought TVNs/Engine coverings for the FGFA were a given?

Yes, since the induction in 2015 is already official aim, athough it needs to be seen if the deadline can be met, but the first prototypes of the new engine will come only by 2014/15, that's why the final version of FGFA will come later too. It should be, but we don't know how it will look like, or what kind of solution they have in mind for the nozzles, the coverings as well as radarblockers or ducts. We simply have to wait and see.

Somebody posted this in PAK-FA sticky
New T-50 Fighter Jet to Enter Service in 2016

Yes, see above.

@sancho, Operational 5th gen fleet is beyond 2025, and sqdn strength is falling every year, in next 8 years we will lose 12 sqdns of mig 21's and 6 sqdns of Mig 27's. It makes perfect sense to induct large numbers of LCA mk2, I dont know if it will happen, I sure hope it will!!!

As I often say, the falling squadron strenght is basically a paper problem, not an operational one, because it includes different single role squadrons, while all new squad is a multi role one. So basically, 1 x multi role squad = 2 x single role squads, or 1 x MKI squad = 1 x Mig 23 + 1 x Mig 27 squad.
The MKI already has replaced all Mig 23 (except of some trainers) and is replacing the Mig 27 in numbers too. The only fighters beyond 2020 that needs replacements are, Mig 29, Mirage 2000 (both replaced by FGFA in numbers, btw first squadron in IAF is aimed at 2022) and later Jaguars, which either can be replaced by additional LCAs, Rafales, or FGFAs, since all of them will be in production by then, but you obviously choose a fighter with good future potential and therefor, Rafale or FGFA will be much more likely, although the best choice to replace them is still armed Rustom H and AURA UCAVs.

As far as UCAV's are concerned, I dont think IAF will hedge it's doctrine on concepts. UCAV's come into picture with complete air superiority, in clear and present danger, such scenario is difficult to achieve with smaller conflict window.

You are highly mistake mate! The IAF Chief mentioned the importance of drones for IAF and in future in the last Aero India several times, because they are the future in most roles. Be it recon, CAS, deep strike, or even EA will in future be take over by them. Manned fighters then will have mainly air defence left, with some strikes, but the rest can be done by drones, more effectively and in most cases cheaper than a manned fighter could do it.
Even today the numbers of drones used in our forces is increasing dramatically and I hope MoD will push a co-development with Israel for HALE drones and AURA, because they will become cruicial for India in future!

LCA mk2 as a agile nimble dog fighter fits the bill for CAP's and dedicated ground attack light IBG's perfectly.

It is and that would be perfect if we would have start inducting LCA 5 years ago, but we are doing it only in 2 or 3 years, MK2 even in 5 years or later, but even today CAS is taken over by drones or fighters, with more endurance and that can take more loads. A Reaper dron can loiter over our ground forces much much longer that a manned fighter and can support them with recon and CAS whenever it is needed. Operated at high altitude makes it less vulnerable against air defences and even at low altitude, it's low speed maneuvering has advantage to jet fighters.

I might be completely wrong here, but a capable LCA mk2 has the potential to change the power equation in the subcontinent.

No comment.

 

[meena24]

LCA has fired R73 and Derby V both, I dont know where you are getting your information from, the reason for FOC delay has been engine power, change in IAF requirement, AoA,
Not sub munitions or A2G capability.

PAF has 9 Awecs and we have 3????? are you sure about that buddy

4 Saab 2000

3 ZDK-3

I think the Saab 2000 includes the one which was destroyed in Kamra attack.

 

[Abingdonboy]

4 Saab 2000

3 ZDK-3

I think the Saab 2000 includes the one which was destroyed in Kamra attack.

Comparing the PHALCON (of which 2 more will be ordered this year) and the likes of the ERIEYE and or ZDK-03 is comparing apples to oranges. The PHALCON is by far the most advanced and capable operational AWACS in service today.

I might be completely wrong here, but a capable LCA mk2 has the potential to change the power equation in the subcontinent.

In the sense that 3rd gen fighters (MIG-21/27) will be replaced my multi-role highly capable 4.5+ gen fighters?

 

[sancho]

IAF must also opt to purchase another 4.5 generation aircraft like Mig-35 or Gripen NG with dedicated ground attack capablity.

Just that both of them are only available as tech demonstrators today, not even final prototypes are ready by now. Gripen E/F is even expected in the same time when LCA MK2 is, so it can't be a fast procurement or induction.

is their any chance to sell LCA mk2 to BD ? just asking

Yes, LCA was developed with exports in mind, but it will take time, since IAFs and INs orders will have preference and there we might need export approval of the US for GE engines.

PAF has 9 Awecs and we have 3????? are you sure about that buddy

That's correct, although it's not fully clear if all the Saab 2000s are still operational after the attacks on the airbase. From a clear edge in BVR, PAF has superseded IAF now it some strategic fields, be it AWACS coverage, cruise missile strike, or the simple pace of modernisation at the lower end. With the limited capabilities, they are doing much better then we do it!

Comparing the PHALCON (of which 2 more will be ordered this year) and the likes of the ERIEYE and or ZDK-03 is comparing apples to oranges. The PHALCON is by far the most advanced and capable operational AWACS in service today.

On paper yes, in reality, we have only very low numbers but a far greater space to cover. While they have higher numbers and only a single borderline that they really need to cover. So even if our AWACS are more advanced, PAF has the advantage currently on their side!

 

[Skull and Bones]

A few months/weeks away bud.

Ha ha, there won't be any Rafale deal with France.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Ha ha, there won't be any Rafale deal with France.

Can't say I agree with you bud!

 

[indian_foxhound]

Ha ha, there won't be any Rafale deal with France.

@Abingdonboy even i feel so... May be thats why i was angry with this IAF
I just pray that i am wrong