IAF may not get to fly LCA before 2010

[Averroes]

what the hell, you see how that tiny plane bounces while still on the ground trying to accelerate? why doesnt it fold in its wheels?

 

[RAPTOR]

try to look up for stuff before making comments.. Kaveri is not managed by HAL.. and neither is the LCA..

Good one.

 

[Best of the Best]

what kind of engine they wil be getting?
SNECMA M53-P2 or M88-2 turbofan engine?

I believe SAGEM-M53-p2 is out of the question for LCA as this engine is quite big it would even be a hard fit for JF-17 which is surely bigger then size then LCA M88-2 could certainly be an option tho..

 

[Best of the Best]

FYI thats notcalled taking a NEUTRAL STANCE..

With all due respect i wasnt calling LCA names nor did i cal it junk if u read my post carefully i mentioned 2 things 1st lca has a 25 million+ price tag on it which makes it quite expensive for what it has to offer anybody would rather buy 2nd had F-16's or Mig-29's and upgrade em.

2nd i repeat the fighter could have been a success given that IAF didnt have to work of its butt about making karvi work rather they should have put an alternate engine and an alternate rader(may it be french,russian or isreali) and put this aircraft into service while they could have worked saprately on making there own engine and avionics....which they failed to do soo trust me u could have put this aircraft in service way before thunder if u would have managed to do soo whats mentioned above for a plane of LCA's size it has a decent payload and range and could be a good multirole jet.....but now its to little too late......

 

[RAPTOR]

With all due respect i wasnt calling LCA names nor did i cal it junk if u read my post carefully i mentioned 2 things 1st lca has a 25 million+ price tag on it which makes it quite expensive for what it has to offer anybody would rather buy 2nd had F-16's or Mig-29's and upgrade em.

2nd i repeat the fighter could have been a success given that IAF didnt have to work of its butt about making karvi work rather they should have put an alternate engine and an alternate rader(may it be french,russian or isreali) and put this aircraft into service while they could have worked saprately on making there own engine and avionics....which they failed to do soo trust me u could have put this aircraft in service way before thunder if u would have managed to do soo whats mentioned above for a plane of LCA's size it has a decent payload and range and could be a good multirole jet.....but now its to little too late......

Well said :thumbsup:

As far as im concerned, the lca / junk /Low Class Aircraft whatever .....is a failed project already !!

 

[Owais]

lca has a 25 million+ price tag on it which makes it quite expensive for what it has to offer anybody would rather buy 2nd had F-16's or Mig-29's and upgrade em.

Right!
it is better to get an F16 MLU or grippen instead of getting this bird.

whats mentioned above for a plane of LCA's size it has a decent payload and range and could be a good multirole jet.....but now its to little too late......

according to my information, LCA is shortlegged having range less than mig21.

 

[Bull]

2nd i repeat the fighter could have been a success given that IAF didnt have to work of its butt about making karvi work rather they should have put an alternate engine and an alternate rader(may it be french,russian or isreali) and put this aircraft into service while they could have worked saprately on making there own engine and avionics....which they failed to do soo trust me u could have put this aircraft in service way before thunder if u would have managed to do soo whats mentioned above for a plane of LCA's size it has a decent payload and range and could be a good multirole jet.....but now its to little too late......

Well i would agree with you over here.ratrher than jumping onto something which is very ambitious and not attempte for anytime before, HAL/ADA should have moved to a complete dev of a fighter aircraft after some part-dev or jt development with israelis or russians.

now all said and done,India already ahve commited so mcuh so let them finish it off too.

And your tag of $25mn was not seen in any of the google searches.

 

[Averroes]

The rumoured growth of the MRCA foreign fighter program to 170-200 aircraft, naval plans for 32 more ships in the next 10-15 years, and other planned capital purchases do indeed have the potential to sqeeze the Tejas. Senior officials have said since March 2005 that an INR 20 billion ($452.8 million at current conversion) order will be placed for 20 Tejas aircraft in 2006, with an similar purchase of another 20 aircraft to follow. All would be equipped with the GE F404 engine that powers current Tejas test aircraft.

Yet The Calcutta Telegraph notes that this purchase is still waiting on financial approval.

Just as confidence in the Tejas will influence India's choices in the MRCA buy of 120-200 foreign fighters, the MRCA will in turn influence influence the Tejas' future. The more MRCA aircrat bought at a flyaway price tag of $35 million or above, the more attractive the sub-$25 million Tejas looks to plus up numbers - as long as it can in fact produce to that cost level.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...but-foreign-help-sought-with-engine/index.php

THere's the 25 million price tag.

 

[ajaybhutani]

I believe SAGEM-M53-p2 is out of the question for LCA as this engine is quite big it would even be a hard fit for JF-17 which is surely bigger then size then LCA M88-2 could certainly be an option tho..

again i'll repeat LCA already is running on a foreign engine GE404. for which orders are already in place for the first batch..and first few squadrons of LCA will run on GE. so theres no need of integration with any other foriegn engine

 

[ajaybhutani]

With all due respect i wasnt calling LCA names nor did i cal it junk if u read my post carefully i mentioned 2 things 1st lca has a 25 million+ price tag

i dont have any objection on that.

on it which makes it quite expensive for what it has to offer anybody would rather buy 2nd had F-16's or Mig-29's and upgrade em.

that depends on how good the plane turns out to be. Please remember its not a JF17. its a statically unstable frame built with mostly composites(reducing its rcs) and running on the more reliable and more long lasting american engines.( as of now.. and kaveri has to exceed the params of GE404 to replace it in LCA) . About avionics india surely has a lot of supply from many sources and will place the foreign avionics components for whatever avionic components it finds below standards.( you can even look at the same from the LCA development till now where foreign parts are getting replaced by indian parts gradually).
the product is not even out and you have compared it to a 2nd hand F16/mig29.. if you really believe that the 2nd hand option is better please give out reasons as so why LCA is worse than these options.

2nd i repeat the fighter could have been a success

thats exactly what led to the spark..
the LCA hasnt been ruled out by IAF/ADA/GOI/HAL.. ( all who are involved in this project ) then who are you to rule it out?? and then you expectme to take your argument as a neutral stance.

given that IAF didnt have to work of its butt about making karvi work rather they should have put an alternate engine

shows your ignorance about the project.. and in fact that you have formed a view about the plane without doing any research.. theres an engine called GE404 which is right now used in LCA and special versions of it ( GE-404 IN20) is already funded by India to suit its needs. first batch of this engine has already been ordered.. .. the first few squadrons will fly with GE engines. as again .. " please read before you post"

and an alternate rader(may it be french,russian or isreali) and put this aircraft into service while they could have worked saprately on making there own engine and avionics....

the avionics and radars are already in the plane.. Whats taking time is the fact that its a statically unstable plane and testing a FBW for such a plane takes time.

which they failed to do soo trust me u could have put this aircraft in service way before thunder if u would have managed to do soo whats mentioned above for a plane of LCA's size

its not a competition to thunder .They are totally different planes in level of airframes itself. oh i forgot(for you a generation of difference in airframe doesnt do any good to the plane).

 

[ajaybhutani]

Well said :thumbsup:

As far as im concerned, the lca / junk /Low Class Aircraft whatever .....is a failed project already !!

you keep your view i'll keep mine.After all we all have a right to have our own views

 

[ajaybhutani]

Right!
it is better to get an F16 MLU or grippen instead of getting this bird.

please compare gripen with LCA.you should come across interesting facts.

according to my information, LCA is shortlegged having range less than mig21.

i'll surely like to see the source..
actually i'll give you hint of how to calculate it urself. Look at gripen's empty weight and loaded weight( i.e. empty wt + fuel) and same for LCA. now both of these have same engines(same engine efficiency) and are deltas ( so similar drag) . do your math on what will be range for LCA wrt range for Gripen. ( you can even try with Mirage) .. figures should give you a good idea about what LCA's range will be.

 

[ajaybhutani]

Well i would agree with you over here.ratrher than jumping onto something which is very ambitious and not attempte for anytime before, HAL/ADA should have moved to a complete dev of a fighter aircraft after some part-dev or jt development with israelis or russians.

now all said and done,India already ahve commited so mcuh so let them finish it off too.

And your tag of $25mn was not seen in any of the google searches.

india has learned from its mistakes and thats why they are looking for partners for fixing Kaveri. and trying to share fifth gen fighter dev with Russia.(instead of building MCA).

about 25 mn price tag..
money allocated for first 20 planes is 28mn$ each.. this includes the cost of american engines( which in turn includes some development cost taken by GE for improvements we asked in these engines ). prive will go down by 2-3 mn dollars on further orders on GE and further when Kaveri is out. ( again economies of scale will start up once the plane is produced in high numbers thus reducing the cost further).

 

[Averroes]

its not a competition to thunder .They are totally different planes in level of airframes itself. oh i forgot(for you a generation of difference in airframe doesnt do any good to the plane).

They're meant to counter eachother no?

 

[ajaybhutani]

The rumoured growth of the MRCA foreign fighter program to 170-200 aircraft,

the rumour was no more than some idiot speculating..IAF has clarified that no of planes hasnt changed.

naval plans for 32 more ships in the next 10-15 years, and other planned capital purchases do indeed have the potential to sqeeze the Tejas.

if you look at the number of planes IAF needs ( due to retirement of Mig21/23 etc..) its a pretty big number and good nough to support 200 LCA and 125 foreign fighters( and thats why the need for 125 fighters came into picture.)..

Senior officials have said since March 2005 that an INR 20 billion ($452.8 million at current conversion) order will be placed for 20 Tejas aircraft in 2006, with an similar purchase of another 20 aircraft to follow. All would be equipped with the GE F404 engine that powers current Tejas test aircraft.

Yet The Calcutta Telegraph notes that this purchase is still waiting on financial approval.

the order has already been placed for the first 20.
and it has got the financial approval(only the first 20).

Just as confidence in the Tejas will influence India's choices in the MRCA buy of 120-200 foreign fighters, the MRCA will in turn influence influence the Tejas' future. The more MRCA aircrat bought at a flyaway price tag of $35 million or above, the more attractive the sub-$25 million Tejas looks to plus up numbers - as long as it can in fact produce to that cost level.

the problem is MRCA specifies AESA as its base requirement. So 35 mn tag isnt feasible.Increasing orders from 120 to 200 will cost a lot.( as we dont need 200 of such advanced planes).
MRCA tender can in turn be seen as a way to improve LCA's survivability. For instance getting F18 will mean getting advanced version of GE404 with it that can be used in case Kaveri is not successful..or making kaveri fit F18 and taking american help to get kaveri to a good level..
or using rafale and using kaveri powered rafale.. options are limitless.