IAF may not get to fly LCA before 2010

[Munir]

Consider it a warning to your arrogant way of replying. Trust me. I do not make jokes.

 

[Jay_]

Consider it a warning to your arrogant way of replying. Trust me. I do not make jokes.

Arrogant way??

As usual one cannot feeling the arrogance of blaiming the other for being illogical or no clue about geography.

Yeah you talk about Pakistani Eriye in Andamans and telling me that I'm arrogant?:idiot:

And it is usual the Ibndians that find LCA on time and MKI on budget. Hardly believe that export is not intresting. I think your logic is more questionable then mine.

Yeah right, lets see about my questionable logic, now let me see you disprove them.
1.IAF needs the plane than any body else outside India.
2.LCA was built for IAF, so the first preference would be IAF.
3.HAL regardless will make money by selling LCA's to IAF

If Druv was that good why would they need marketing of Israeli?

1.Israelis are good at weapon sales.
2.Israel supplies avionics for Dhruv.
So you draw the conclusion, else you'll accuse me of being arrogant.

Why would they give them away for nothing?

Bah....34 ALH's produced so far. 31 was sold to IAF/Coast Guard, 2 to Nepal and one to Israel.

Why would all the parts need to be imported?

AFAIK Engines are imported and some avionics, do you have a list of ALL the parts that are imported for Dhruv. Heck, even JF-17's engines and avionics are imported, so they both are the same?

the fact is that being one of the largest nation in the world it has little to sell when it comes to weapon technology.

Ugh, what evr.

A lot of projects are thrown into the world with hot air but in reality it is not even accepted by its own forces.

Yeah right, India is selling its weapons to the world, with out fielding it in its own forces. Whats next in your list, India selling starships?

Hall does not care about cash? Asap something is asked it is all over the net in in Indian newspapers...

Its not hall or living room, its HAL. And who said anything about HAL does not care about cash?? It was you who said HAL needs "export" cash, as if its more in value than what IAF will be paying them for LCA.

Just like if an Indian wins something... You do remmeber that Nasa guy from India? Well. I rest my case.

Whats your case? If India wins something ofcourse it will be all over the Indian media. They dont do that in Pakistan anymore??

Your data about MKI is irrelevant and even disputed by your own nation.

It was from CAG, you know, to put in layman terms, they go through Govt accounts and let people know about the irreuglarities.

LCA a new fighter? Get realistic. It is way less then Mirage 2000H and not even finished while Mirage is ended production.

I'll say it again slowly, LCA is a new fighter for IAF, so the tactics, doctrine and training development has to be done fresh.

Comparing a budget or on time... Well I agree with totally new projects like F22 or Gripen... But something that has started that long ago like LCA one can not talk about late. Just read your own press...

so when did Indian press become to know it all? They do say a lot about Pakistan. LCA is a jet fighter plane program for India and its the first for us. Its not any different from any other fighter plane development, just compare the timelines.

About J10 coming to Pak...

Yeah, what about it? you have anything to prove Pakistan has already inducted a squadron?

It reminds me of your peoples remark about paperplane.. O that F16 block52 is nothing serious and will never delivered to Pak.

I dont remember saying anything like that to you.

I have seen Druv and IJT. I have talked to engineers and pilots. Don't tell me that you do know more then that.

Irrelevant for the discussion, Ive heard plenty of this uncles first cousin's second daughters sources, so lay it off.

And it is usual the Ibndians that find LCA on time and MKI on budget.

I guess you ran out of your arguements.

 

[Munir]

As usual the defending of failed nation and failed projects. Did you sit in a Druv? Did you talk to IJT engineers and pilot? And yes... Engine is french, bodyword is Eurocopter. Avionics are Israeli. Even the weapons attached are imported. Israel did only "bought" it caused they were forced to (contract). Nepal got it for free. Why would they so much press Israel to market it and even then it is not exported. Not even in Chiliiii. To tell you honestly. It is as much Indian as the Brahmos is...

About LCA. India is busy since decades. Kiran... Ajeet... Multiple assembly lines. And yet they are busy with a mutliple decades of testing LCA and een then the FBW was from US. The engine from US. A lot of other parts imported. Consultance from almost every producers we can find. Hell, they even asked help from western and Russian engine developers and still cannot get it working. Somehow they are doomed in that. They lost their AWACS program... They lost building a decent tank that can operate in the dessert. Being a supoerpower they managed to be suprised by a smaller weaker and poorer nation. They have no chance to stand against China. It reminds be about the man on the moon... I hope they can launch a rocket cause otherwise it will be another dream that wil end in over bdget and late epic...

 

[Munir]

Don't tell me that this is polite. Behave or leave.

Again, illogical. IAF needs these planes than any other export nations. HAL does not care about "export" cash or "local" cash, all they need is cash.


Dhruv has been already inducted in the forces, and will be exported, only after local orders are completed.


Thats coz PLAAF does not need that plane. Now take the case of J-10, when will Pakistan ever lay its hands on one?


What ever suits your cup of tea, LCA is a new fighter for IAF and so my point is still valid.

MKI's cost about $8.2 billion per CAG report, Is it double figures? Failing? The last time I checked the newly inducted MKI's are still in Squadron service and MKI's are being assembled locally.


Can you name one A/c that was on budget on time? Also can you name one aircraft where parts are not imported?


Its not even inducted, yet you seem to be so sure, that its vulnerable?


Do you know where Andaman's are and the range of other rival air bases in the area?


Boo...not worth a reply.


Ugm ok and?


I cannot duscuss Andaman's with a person who has absolutely no clue about geography. My bad..

 

[Averroes]

the fact is that being one of the largest nation in the world it has little to sell when it comes to weapon technology.

being such a large nation entails a whole myriad of other problems.

I'll say it again slowly, LCA is a new fighter for IAF, so the tactics, doctrine and training development has to be done fresh.

Ok, and try to comprehend what he's trying to say. LCA as a fighter does hold ground to new fighters in the world. It is new to the iaf yes, but then again old F-4 or F-5 if introduced now, would also according to your statement be NEW as they would require new tactics, doctrine and training development.

:bat:

 

[Munir]

These people cannot stop comparing FC1 as 70% F16a but if we compare the LCA with anything then it is wrong. Fc1 has matured with DSI and BVR. It will get HMS, IFR, IRST and C802. I don't see anything happening to LCA.

Let me put it straight. JF17 is not near block52. But price-quality aspect it does trigger a new bang. It altelast will get export orders before it is finalised. It will enter production in 2006. I don't see anything happening to our Barbie girl that is made of composites and is co-produced by the entire world.

as for others. I did not like the tone of mr Jay. He has three days to cool down.

 

[Averroes]

well one thing that speaks for the LCA is that it's the smallest fighter jet out there, and smaller targets are harder to shoot. or is this no problem for missiles when they lock on?

 

[desimorty]

Guys the reason the Tejas is small is because it becomes a smaller target EXPECIALLY in the WVR arena. In visual combat of an aircraft its usually all about keeping an eye on the enemy. This is the reason F-16/F-15/F-22 have such good views from the cockpit. Same in the BVR regard you need the target on your digital screen. ADA began the project with little knowledge on RCS reduction and other aircraft industries were still trying to understand it or keeping it tight liped. Thus it was logical to make the aircraft out of compisote materials and make it small as possible and reduce any sharp edges.
The one weakness a Flanker holds in WVR is its size. Its TOO easy to see with a naked eye!
And Munir. Your reality is only a fantasy.

 

[Averroes]

skip the rhetorics, just post facts alright.

makes sense that they're going for small aircrafts, the sukhoi inventory comprises of extremely large aircrafts.

Same in the BVR regard you need the target on your digital screen.

a small aircraft without stealth would show up on the radar.

 

[Munir]

Guys the reason the Tejas is small is because it becomes a smaller target EXPECIALLY in the WVR arena. In visual combat of an aircraft its usually all about keeping an eye on the enemy. This is the reason F-16/F-15/F-22 have such good views from the cockpit. Same in the BVR regard you need the target on your digital screen. ADA began the project with little knowledge on RCS reduction and other aircraft industries were still trying to understand it or keeping it tight liped. Thus it was logical to make the aircraft out of compisote materials and make it small as possible and reduce any sharp edges.
The one weakness a Flanker holds in WVR is its size. Its TOO easy to see with a naked eye!
And Munir. Your reality is only a fantasy.

Atleast explain or should we continue personal bashing? Either explain your remark or remove it. Your fantasy is probably Indian superiority.

About smaller target. Smaller range. Less ECM. Less weapons. Chance of LCA fighting anything else then pointdefence is not high.

WVR is not inportant these days. Sensors and weapons are extremely sensitive. And a Flanker has huge RCS. Easier to spot then Fc1 with DSI... But then again more weapons, more range and huge radar.

 

[Bull]

Hall does not care about cash? Asap something is asked it is all over the net in in Indian newspapers... Just like if an Indian wins something...

HAL and RollsRoyce celebrates 50 yrs of partnership:
http://www.hal-india.com/hal-rr-50.asp
HAL – IAI cooperation in Aero Structures
http://www.hal-india.com/hal-iai.asp
HAL – IAI cooperation in Aero Structures
HAL 45th in the world
http://www.hal-india.com/45th.asp

There are more news in the site go and check and correct your notion that HAl isnt bothered abt cash.
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[RAPTOR]

So when is your HAL churning out the "LOST in COMBAT ACCIDENTS (LCA) in huge numbers to threaten Pakistani F-16s and Chinese SU-30MKI's and J-10s?

 

[Owais]

So when is your HAL churning out the "LOST in COMBAT ACCIDENTS (LCA) in huge numbers to threaten Pakistani F-16s and Chinese SU-30MKI's and J-10s?

first of all, china don't have MKI. and secoundly, LCA can't even threaten thunder so F-16 is not an issue. but yea, LCA is a big threat for F-16A/B:biggrin:

 

[Averroes]

but yea, LCA is a big threat for F-16A/B

not after Mid life upgrade

 

[RAPTOR]

not after Mid life upgrade

I think he was being sarcastic . The LCA (LOW CLASS AIRCRAFT) cant threaten PAF F-16A/B, especially after the MLUs.