IAF lost 29 fighter planes in past 3 years,Antony says

[axisofevil]

You are talking about a corrupt CM of one of india's state on PDF ??? It's like selling mirrors to blind people.
And it's not even the topic
If you are serious
-contact any media outlet and they will make a hell of a news of it.
- Upload on YouTube and share links on social media its a wildfire.
- contact CVC. His number and email is on GOI web page. He will take action and keep you posted about it.
- instead of asking why anybody didn't give you attention you should answer why didn't you do anything about it from the time you knew it. It's both way crime
Good luck and try using mild language. It keep discussion normal and less offensive

Thank you. I wa slooking at ways to publish this. My friend is involved but I got to do what is right.

 

[Sergi]

@axisofevil: I don't understand your logic about Modi being PM solving magically IAF's problem. Modi can take quick and effective decision but He doesn't have a magic wind. All process will walk their own pace.

@janon : IAF isn't happy to operate Migs either. But they don't have a choice.
LCA can be inducted in IAF but how can you put it in operational doctrine ??? @Abingdonboy and I was talking about the similar thing few days ago. According to him IAF will need 2/3 years to experiment on Rafael to create its operational doctrine and include it in IAF's war plans.
LCA isn't even tested to A2A combat yet. Are you suggesting we should replace a BVR capable Bison with LCA ??? We can induct LCA and keep evolving it. But at no point it can replace any plane already in operational doctrine till it proved its a2a abilities. Right now LCA is tested for ground attack ie a2g role. But we need replacement for intercepters not the bombers.

 

[Sergi]

Thank you. I wa slooking at ways to publish this. My friend is involved but I got to do what is right.

Contact kejarival's party. They will be more than eager to help.

 

[Dash]

janon[/MENTION] : IAF isn't happy to operate Migs either. But they don't have a choice.
LCA can be inducted in IAF but how can you put it in operational doctrine ??? @Abingdonboy and I was talking about the similar thing few days ago. According to him IAF will need 2/3 years to experiment on Rafael to create its operational doctrine and include it in IAF's war plans.
LCA isn't even tested to A2A combat yet. Are you suggesting we should replace a BVR capable Bison with LCA ??? We can induct LCA and keep evolving it. But at no point it can replace any plane already in operational doctrine till it proved its a2a abilities. Right now LCA is tested for ground attack ie a2g role. But we need replacement for intercepters not the bombers.

This is not a new type of fighter we suddenly got in our kit. LCA will fit into the same doctorine that accomodated Migs, which is interception. The only problem/issue with Rafale is its a multirole fighter and can perform many roles with specialized abilities for each role. So there is a challenge.

 

[Sergi]

This is not a new type of fighter we suddenly got in our kit. LCA will fit into the same doctorine that accomodated Migs, which is interception. The only problem/issue with Rafale is its a multirole fighter and can perform many roles with specialized abilities for each role. So there is a challenge.

I am really not the best person to discuss that. Abingdonboy or sancho

LCA is a new fighter if not a new type. Yes you can accommodate on paper but what about the the actual operational tests ???
Mig-21 bisons are tested intercepters. Right now we can call LCA almost a ground attack plane. How these role can be matched ???

We can induct LCA and keep it evolving but we can't replace any proven plane with it till it shows the capability of at least that plane.

 

[janon]

@axisofevil: I don't understand your logic about Modi being PM solving magically IAF's problem. Modi can take quick and effective decision but He doesn't have a magic wind. All process will walk their own pace.

@janon : IAF isn't happy to operate Migs either. But they don't have a choice.
LCA can be inducted in IAF but how can you put it in operational doctrine ??? @Abingdonboy and I was talking about the similar thing few days ago. According to him IAF will need 2/3 years to experiment on Rafael to create its operational doctrine and include it in IAF's war plans.
LCA isn't even tested to A2A combat yet. Are you suggesting we should replace a BVR capable Bison with LCA ??? We can induct LCA and keep evolving it. But at no point it can replace any plane already in operational doctrine till it proved its a2a abilities. Right now LCA is tested for ground attack ie a2g role. But we need replacement for intercepters not the bombers.

In that case they can still replace the mig-27s, right? After all the mig 27s have ZERO A2A capability, and don't even have a radar, IIRC.

The LCA has been tested for A2A, the only aspect that hasn't been tested is firing BVR missiles with the radar. Most of our mig 21s are not BVR capable either, only the bisons (and maybe the Bis) are.

Anyway I am not saying they should immediately replace all the migs with LCAs effective tomorrow. No air force can replace hundreds of fighters that quickly. But they should have begun the process of replacing the migs a long time back. They could have inducted LCAs some time back too, even without A2A capability, like PAF inducted JF-17s before they had A2G capability. There are many, many mistakes that the IAF did over the decades, that has led to this situation now. The issue of ageing migs was felt in the early 90s. It was too old to fly then, and 20 years later, they are still being flown.

They could have inducted more mirages along the way, instead of just 60. They could have ordered a squadron of LCAs a few years back, even without warfighting capability, just to test them and build tactics and doctrines for it. In the early 2000s or even late 90s, they could have decided to decrease the number of squadrons while inducting force multipliers like AEWACs and refuellers. If we had several AEWACS in service in the early 2000s, we could have afforded to phase out the migs a lot sooner, since each squadron would have a lot more warfighting capability than it does without AEWAC support. PAF has 9 AEWACS in service, while the IAF has just three, and wont be getting any for some time to come. If we had introduced such force multipliers a long time back, and built our operational doctrines around those, then we would have been in much better shape today even with fewer squadrons.

There are many many mistakes that the IAF did, which are not very easy to understand for most people. The idea that a different PM or political party would have understood these things better is laughable. I am sure the IAF may have some justifications (valid or not) for the path they chose. But neither the problems, nor the solutions are simple. "Elect modi" or "Down with sonia" are the sort of simplistic "solutions" offered by unimaginative people who cant think beyond sloganeering.

The IAF's problems are NOT political or related to the decisions by any political entity. Who to assign blame is not even a valid question. There are many things that are to be blamed - shortsightedness of the IAF in not foreseeing issues, failure to induct modern systems and to evolve modern tactics and doctrines, abysmally slow acquisition processes, delays from HAL on the LCA front, and so on and so forth. These are institutional issues that need correction, not political.

"Elect my favorite candidate, and all issues will be solved" is not going to get us anywhere. I wish many of our people could think a little deeper than that, and not be so trite and superficial.

 

[Dash]

I am really not the best person to discuss that. Abingdonboy or sancho

LCA is a new fighter if not a new type. Yes you can accommodate on paper but what about the the actual operational tests ???
Mig-21 bisons are tested intercepters. Right now we can call LCA almost a ground attack plane. How these role can be matched ???

We can induct LCA and keep it evolving but we can't replace any proven plane with it till it shows the capability of at least that plane.

And I am not the best person too...but I agree with you. I was just trying to add few points to your post.

 

[HongWu]

Good thing you already signed the MMRCA last year you need them quickly

 

[indian_foxhound]

Good thing you already signed the MMRCA last year you need them quickly

Wesigned?? that to last year? i don't think so. we just selected the rafale.we will sign the deal this year

 

[BDforever]

@Skull and Bones for you buddy
In the last three
years, the Indian Air Force has
lost 29 fighter planes including
12 MiG-21s in crashes in which
six pilots lost their lives, the Lok
Sabha was informed on Monday. The aircraft lost in the crashes
were 12 MiG-21s, 8 MiG-27s, 4
Su-30MKis, 2 Jaguars, 2
Mirage-2000s and 1 MiG-29.

 

[DroneMailini]

Mr. Janon: I agree with you, We should have started Inducting First 50 Tejas just with Ground attack Capabilities, It will be more than enough ( only thing we have to ensure that it is operating in High altitudes like kargil and Siachen Glacier). We should have replaced our vintage Mig-21s with HAL Tejas.

 

[Windjammer]

The aircraft lost in the crashes
were 12 MiG-21s, 8 MiG-27s, 4
Su-30MKis, 2 Jaguars, 2
Mirage-2000s and 1 MiG-29,

The MiG crashes shouldn't come as a surprise however the concerning factor should be the SU-30s......no crashes in first eight years of operation and then four in the last three years.

 

[BDforever]

The MiG crashes shouldn't come as a surprise however the concerning factor should be the SU-30s......no crashes in first eight years of operation and then four in the last three years.

also consider 2 Mirage 2000 and 1 Mig 29

 

[indian_foxhound]

The MiG crashes shouldn't come as a surprise however the concerning factor should be the SU-30s......no crashes in first eight years of operation and then four in the last three years.

All are because FBW. Yea its the matter of concern... Hope we will figure it out ASAP

 

[Windjammer]

also consider 2 Mirage 2000 and 1 Mig 29

To be frank, i am more dismayed at the attrition of Jaguars in the IAF service......albeit, it's been in the IAF service for over 30 years but still over 40 aircraft have been lost in accidents.....considering Jaguars are twin engine jets and have never gone into battle once. !!