IAF Fighter Roles and Mission profiles --When and how will they be used ?

[TaimiKhan]

Great points....But is there a possibility that SAM stations can be jammed by Su 30 MKI or Phalcons ? I do know that the F16 Blck 52 that you recieved does have a Jamming pod (correct me if i am wrong).

The scenario i am thinking about is similar to F18 Growler ...where in Growler goes ahead and jams the air defences for the following aircraft to easily take them out.

These jammers may be good for one on one fights or against incoming missile, but for SEAD operations, aircraft are specialized, meaning they carry extra things as jamming radars and air defence networks, extra things are required. F-18 Growler is a specialized aircraft, check out its pics and you will see extra big jamming pods under the wings.

Not only latest F-16s have jamming equipment, rather the new JF-17s have also something like that, but as said, they are good against incoming missile A2A or SAM, not for jamming ground radars or stuff like that.

Here is the F-18 Growler, just check the wing tips, the jamming pods under the belly and under the wings. This is for SEAD missions.

I do not know if MKI has this capability - but i do know that it has ECW/ jamming capabilities.

Definitely they are gonna have them, if the Bisons can have jammers, why not MKIs. Nowadays nearly every modern aircraft is coming equipped with such jammers.

I did not understand the above para of yours ..!!

Problem with aircraft like MKIs have, that their radars work in the forward direction and to some degree on the side ways, thus for its radar to keep a track on the PAF AWAC, it will have to keep its nose in the direction of the AWAC or tilt sideways to an extent that the radar coverage is there, if it takes a dramatic turn the radar coverage will be lost and so will the MKI tracking of the AWAC, so even if the MKI is in Indian airspace, it will have to keep its nose towards Pakistan to keep track of the AWAC, and the MKI is a moving platform, means its flying in the air, so while it keeps its nose towards the target to keep a track, it will be nearing or will be inside the Pakistani airspace, and as the Indian member said, its radar has a 250KM tracking range, it means it will have to be on the border or inside Pakistan to keep a track of the AWAC, as PAF AWAC would be atleast 250-300KM inside of Pakistan from the border, thus MKI will be vulnerable as it will be inside Pakistan and will have a tough job to keep a track of the target.

 

[Dash]

Good going guys...peaceful discussion of WAR...

Anyways Taimikhan -

Problem with aircraft like MKIs have, that their radars work in the forward direction and to some degree on the side ways, thus for its radar to keep a track on the PAF AWAC, it will have to keep its nose in the direction of the AWAC or tilt sideways to an extent that the radar coverage is there

The SAAB erieye can track target side ways, meaning to say it has blind spots in front and rear section. Meaning to say it will take turn significantly to keep an eye on the target. It has a target acquisition range of 350Kms for a fighter size aircraft.

So if the MKI is heading nose to nose to Erieye then the Erieye Cant actually detect MKI, even if it detects then it has to keep a constant lock on the aircraft.

And Erieye will not operate so much away from border as it has to guide its frontline fighters to defend hostile airctaft. Coz if your F-16 fighters stay close to border then according to you then the data link will also not work, given you have a SATCOM interface btn.

Even if Phalcon operates from Punjab which is still 200 Kms from Lahore. The F16s dont have any better weapon to counter such long range and given your erieye is far away from border, there is no such info available to F16s that phalcon is up and running.

So given in that scenarrio you will not operate all your AWACS, say 250 Kms behind the border, then It can be very well tracked by at least one Su-30 MKI in real combat and shot down...

Feel free to comment.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Good going guys...peaceful discussion of WAR...

Anyways Taimikhan -



The SAAB erieye can track target side ways, meaning to say it has blind spots in front and rear section. Meaning to say it will take turn significantly to keep an eye on the target. It has a target acquisition range of 350Kms for a fighter size aircraft.

So if the MKI is heading nose to nose to Erieye then the Erieye Cant actually detect MKI, even if it detects then it has to keep a constant lock on the aircraft.

And Erieye will not operate so much away from border as it has to guide its frontline fighters to defend hostile airctaft. Coz if your F-16 fighters stay close to border then according to you then the data link will also not work, given you have a SATCOM interface btn.

Even if Phalcon operates from Punjab which is still 200 Kms from Lahore. The F16s dont have any better weapon to counter such long range and given your erieye is far away from border, there is no such info available to F16s that phalcon is up and running.

So given in that scenarrio you will not operate all your AWACS, say 250 Kms behind the border, then It can be very well tracked by at least one Su-30 MKI in real combat and shot down...

Feel free to comment.

Well first of all, i have in my discussion never talked about downing the Indian Phalcon, as there is no need for such high risky and suicidal missions in face of IAF superior strength, but if some less risky opportunity arises, PAF should take it, but i won't think PAF has any primary interest in doing such a thing. Nor do I have any interest in such missions, the talk for now is centered around IAF downing PAF AWAC with its MKIs and the possibilities and how to do it.

And as for Erieye, plz look at the map of Pakistan, we have less width but long length, and PAF AWAC will not be flying with their nose towards India, rather they will fly sideways with Radar faced towards India and other side would be towards Afghanistan, and it will keep flying length wise of Pakistan, not width wise of Pakistan, thus its radars would nearly be all the time towards India. Similarly, the AEW&C would not be alone, it will be augmented with the land based radars and fed info. To be exact, in Pakistan, the GCS would play the major role, as feeding from AEW&Cs as well as ground based radars would be fed to them and they will make a clear picture of what is happening and do the decisions.

And as for the F-16 talk, as i said, we have for now no interest in downing Indian AWACS, nor the resources to do that, if some less risky method is found, we may try, but its not a primary objective.

Primary objective is to deny IAF aerial superiority and mount offensive things to keep IAF at bay.

And as said, MKI are gonna have a very tough and risky job to down the PAF AWACS, with its air force intact as well as SAM network working.

 

[su-47]

Well first of all, i have in my discussion never talked about downing the Indian Phalcon, as there is no need for such high risky and suicidal missions in face of IAF superior strength, but if some less risky opportunity arises, PAF should take it, but i won't think PAF has any primary interest in doing such a thing. Nor do I have any interest in such missions, the talk for now is centered around IAF downing PAF AWAC with its MKIs and the possibilities and how to do it.

And as for Erieye, plz look at the map of Pakistan, we have less width but long length, and PAF AWAC will not be flying with their nose towards India, rather they will fly sideways with Radar faced towards India and other side would be towards Afghanistan, and it will keep flying length wise of Pakistan, not width wise of Pakistan, thus its radars would nearly be all the time towards India. Similarly, the AEW&C would not be alone, it will be augmented with the land based radars and fed info. To be exact, in Pakistan, the GCS would play the major role, as feeding from AEW&Cs as well as ground based radars would be fed to them and they will make a clear picture of what is happening and do the decisions.

And as for the F-16 talk, as i said, we have for now no interest in downing Indian AWACS, nor the resources to do that, if some less risky method is found, we may try, but its not a primary objective.

Primary objective is to deny IAF aerial superiority and mount offensive things to keep IAF at bay.

And as said, MKI are gonna have a very tough and risky job to down the PAF AWACS, with its air force intact as well as SAM network working.

Taimi one question. How come Pakistan never made any acquisition of Long Range SAMs, given IAFs use of MiG-25 for Recon in the 80s and 90s. I heard stories of MiG-25s flying over Pak air space unchallenged. Why didn't Pak get any Long range SAM to counter the threat?

And even now, Pak doesn't have a sufficiently good SAM network to challenge IAF. Which means a lot of PAF assets have to be used just to deny IAF air superiority, when they could have been used elsewhere for ground support. Do u agree?

 

[indian navy]

tami how will you think IAF in future when we have MMRCA result and pakfa how will be the strong point and weak points

 

[TaimiKhan]

Taimi one question. How come Pakistan never made any acquisition of Long Range SAMs, given IAFs use of MiG-25 for Recon in the 80s and 90s. I heard stories of MiG-25s flying over Pak air space unchallenged. Why didn't Pak get any Long range SAM to counter the threat?

And even now, Pak doesn't have a sufficiently good SAM network to challenge IAF. Which means a lot of PAF assets have to be used just to deny IAF air superiority, when they could have been used elsewhere for ground support. Do u agree?

Most probably due to the unavailability of such system on the international market at those times.

US and USSR were the only ones who had such sysstems, USSR would have never sold us, so can be said for USA.

Pakistan is said to have/had the Chinese HQ-2 variants, but they are installed at strategic locations, even if the IAF Migs intruded they may not have gone deep enough or near to these sites.

But it seems now PAF is going for SAM systems, Spada system is being procured, HQ-9 is rumored to be in possession, or being procured.

So hopefully things are being improved.

I had agreed way before, that a good SAM would be an added advantage to take the burden off the PAF jets and concentrate more on other important stuff.

 

[TaimiKhan]

tami how will you think IAF in future when we have MMRCA result and pakfa how will be the strong point and weak points

weak point in what sense ???

 

[flanker143]

What wud be the role for lca tejas ???

will it be just air defense , and short range interdiction/ lite precision bomber ... or more ........? pl comment..

 

[deckingraj]

What wud be the role for lca tejas ???

will it be just air defense , and short range interdiction/ lite precision bomber ... or more ........? pl comment..

Since they are going to replace Mig-21...so i will be highly surprised if they are given additional role then interceptors....They are cheap and helps in filling the numbers....We have plenty of MKI's, Mig-29, Mirages, Jaguars for other roles....