i-Derby-ER new BVR missile for Tejas Mk-1A

[GURU DUTT]

Exactly my point. Let us assume LCA is 4 gen. I see it being used primarily for point defence, in counter air and close support + maybe battle field interdiction in counter land- agree with you not as frontline fighter. Using a fourth generation fighter for these roles does not make sense. Negation proves that LCA is 3rd gen.

no your wrong as they say offence is the best defnce but in case things dont go as planned and your desparate enemy tries to counter attack you need your most leathel pakage as a goal keeper ... if you know what i mean

see we have china on one side and pakistan on other ... china will never attack india to save pakistan and it never did all it will do in a case of war is give pakistan some wepons for free and make some agressive statements and thats it

but but but we cant take chances and when most of the IAF (M2Ks, mig29s,MKIs& Jags) are put into offensive roles we need something very potent to make any think otherwise if he intends to counter attack and when he knows that the point defnce fighter its forces might face are almost as leathel as the offensive frontline platforms it makes him make compromises and changes to its gameplan... hope you understand what i mean

as for 3rd gen well if a given day LCA can perform all the jobs it is given (like point defnce CAS and limited strike roles) then it bieng a 3rd , 2nd or 1st gen fighter doesnt matters what matters is the capability and getting the job done and with all its latest add ons LCA is much better than IAF ever hoped it to be

 

[GR!FF!N]

Using a fourth generation fighter for these roles does not make sense.

according to whom??

 

[45'22']

Exactly my point. Let us assume LCA is 4 gen. I see it being used primarily for point defence, in counter air and close support + maybe battle field interdiction in counter land- agree with you not as frontline fighter. Using a fourth generation fighter for these roles does not make sense. Negation proves that LCA is 3rd gen.

You cant say LCA is a 3rd gen bc it will be used for point defence or battle field interdiction....

When IAF replaces the Migs then all birds of IAF will be in 4+ and 4++ category....someone has to do the interception and it makes sense for Tejas to do it ....but the radar,its avionics suite, its jammer, its weapon package sure puts it in gen 4 category

Mk2 will be a beast with 4.5 gen features

 

[#hydra#]

in short EL-2032 + Pythion 5 , Derby & I Derby ER will give light fighter like Tejas a offensive capability like PAFs F-16 Block-52

it will be good if we use el2052 instead of 2032

 

[GURU DUTT]

it will be good if we use el2052 instead of 2032

EL 2032 was always a stop gap arrangement as the real deal is AESA UTTAM but its not ready and till it comes EL2052 will be on any number of LCA produced till then

 

[silent hawk]

no your wrong as they say offence is the best defnce but in case things dont go as planned and your desparate enemy tries to counter attack you need your most leathel pakage as a goal keeper ... if you know what i mean

see we have china on one side and pakistan on other ... china will never attack india to save pakistan and it never did all it will do in a case of war is give pakistan some wepons for free and make some agressive statements and thats it

but but but we cant take chances and when most of the IAF (M2Ks, mig29s,MKIs& Jags) are put into offensive roles we need something very potent to make any think otherwise if he intends to counter attack and when he knows that the point defnce fighter its forces might face are almost as leathel as the offensive frontline platforms it makes him make compromises and changes to its gameplan... hope you understand what i mean

as for 3rd gen well if a given day LCA can perform all the jobs it is given (like point defnce CAS and limited strike roles) then it bieng a 3rd , 2nd or 1st gen fighter doesnt matters what matters is the capability and getting the job done and with all its latest add ons LCA is much better than IAF ever hoped it to be

If India's game plan is even close to what you have indicated than yout IBGs have very little chance of succeeding and integration of TFR would be impossible.

As far as the LCA is concerned , you should expect more after spending more than 30 Million dollars apiece.

Only a country as dumb India would spend so much on a goalkeeper. Are you guys afraid of PAF ?

 

[GURU DUTT]

If India's game plan is even close to what you have indicated than yout IBGs have very little chance of succeeding and integration of TFR would be impossible.

As far as the LCA is concerned , you should expect more after spending more than 30 Million dollars apiece.

Only a country as dumb India would spend so much on a goalkeeper. Are you guys afraid of PAF ?

WTF ... from where did IGBs come into it we are talking about LCA & I Derby ER right

anyway what is wrong in spending 30million on a goalkeeper when we are spending 40million to upgrade owr so called centre forward (M2k for first strike role)

see we are doing cause we can had you got the same blank chuqe from USA like you had before 1965 war you would have amassed dozens and dozens of F-16s but thats another story lets not go there .. OK

as for fear well those who dont have fear of his enemy cant win cause its the fear that keeps you alert and ever more agressive but then thing is LCA has now after 14 years of flight testing morphed into more than what it was concieved to be in any format of its potential use then be it point defnce , CAS or strike role it can do it all

and your PAF generals are very worried cause all this while they thought after MKI is tamed its gonna be a cake walk but with adavant of upgraded Jags , Mig29s , M2Ks & Bisons they have much much more to worry about and even they dont have any answer to MKI as of now .... fact is its the pakistanies who are afraid ... very very afraid and i guess you should be

 

[silent hawk]

WTF ... from where did IGBs come into it we are talking about LCA & I Derby ER right

anyway what is wrong in spending 30million on a goalkeeper when we are spending 40million to upgrade owr so called centre forward (M2k for first strike role)

see we are doing cause we can had you got the same blank chuqe from USA like you had before 1965 war you would have amassed dozens and dozens of F-16s but thats another story lets not go there .. OK

as for fear well those who dont have fear of his enemy cant win cause its the fear that keeps you alert and ever more agressive but then thing is LCA has now after 14 years of flight testing morphed into more than what it was concieved to be in any format of its potential use then be it point defnce , CAS or strike role it can do it all

and your PAF generals are very worried cause all this while they thought after MKI is tamed its gonna be a cake walk but with adavant of upgraded Jags , Mig29s , M2Ks & Bisons they have much much more to worry about and even they dont have any answer to MKI as of now .... fact is its the pakistanies who are afraid ... very very afraid and i guess you should be

So LCA has no role in pro-active operations ?

 

[Last Samuri]

aesa equipped lca tejas wuth improved derby will be a better bvr platforn than any fighter bar mki

 

[kaykay]

So LCA has no role in pro-active operations ?

I think its more about IAF's doctrine. Tejas will serve as a second line aircraft as we don't have 'majboori' and already will have better aircrafts serving in front line. When you will have Super MKIs, 29UPGs, M2K5s and Rafales, I think they will rather take care of proactive operations than Tejas as a single Rafale might do what 3-4 Tejass cant due to better load and other capabilities. Though with AESA and Derby-er/Astra, Tejas will do its bit in other roles like point defence, air superiority roles etc along with others.
About money, I think if we can afford 40 millions for upgrading mirages, 30 million for Tejas will hardly matter that too when it is Indigenous.

 

[GURU DUTT]

So LCA has no role in pro-active operations ?

nanhe rajkumar it still has to get FOC after that when it comes into full strenth first squad will be kept in south india to train rookie pilots and further enhancing and evaluations to make a new air doctroine around it after carefulli stuying its capabilities in FOC onli when it is 3 squads there will be a role for it as of now IAF has 150 Bisons doing the role it was concived for i hope you can understand it

LCA is not frontline fighter of IAF today the frontline fighters of IAF are MKIs, M2Ks , Mig29s and Jags while Mig21 Bisons do the point defnce role and LCA was designed to replace Mig21s rest speculate yourself

 

[BABA AGHORI]

Not really Teja will remain a 3rd generation aircraft with fourth generation avionics and armament - similar to JF-17

It would be MKI vs F-16 Block-52 in 4th gen.

Primary difference would be due to training and tactics.

atleast you admited JF-17 is a 3rd Generation aircraft and appreciate your wisdom... if an Indian would have said.. mods would ban him for ever...

Tejas is a point defense aircraft and fulfills 4th generation handsomely.

3rd Gen - Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles. This was going to be a game changer. You could shoot the bad guys before you could see them and it didn't matter what aspect they were showing—as long as they were above the radar horizon. Then higher ups pulled the fun rug out from under everyone by not letting anyone do that. As a result, dogfighting once again became a vital skill. The early to mid '60s saw the major rise of the 3rd Gen fighters.

4th Gen - Here's where things get complicated, with 4, 4+, and 4.5, etc. This is essentially a group of fighters that are more advanced than the 3rd Gen ones. They have superior thrust, advanced flight controls, more discerning radar, better connectivity, or any combination of these. Many of these, or the combination, made real differences in the air, but for those counting, they weren't prepared to call any of these a full step. Dogfighting really advanced with the computerized flight controls and fly-by-wire—pilots weren't fighting their own plane at the same time they were fighting their adversary. The early '70s marked the introduction and most fighters flying today are 4th Gen.


Rest for MKI and F-16 Block 52 world knows the comparison

240+ MKI vs 18 F-16 Block 52...

 

[GURU DUTT]

240+ MKI vs 18 F-16 Block 52...

correction onli 90MKIs are for PAF backed by all land based Mig 29s & M2Ks and Jags

 

[Omega007]

EL 2032 was always a stop gap arrangement as the real deal is AESA UTTAM but its not ready and till it comes EL2052 will be on any number of LCA produced till then

I don't think Uncle SAM would agree to such an arrangement,given the 2052 incorporates their technology!!Our only bet would be the Uttam AESA for the time being.

 

[GURU DUTT]

I don't think Uncle SAM would agree to such an arrangement,given the 2052 incorporates their technology!!Our only bet would be the Uttam AESA for the time being.

recent reports suggest USA has agreed and given israelies the nod to sell 2052 to india but for indian use onli not export ... i may be wrong though