I am getting sick of hearing this free speech excuse for hate crimes

[livingdead]

We should also be allowed to insult the Hindu religion and defile all it's deities in the name of freedom of speech.

You are guaranteed that freedom in USA. Do exercise it there.
I hope you know freedom of 'speech' is limited to voicing your opinion, not destroying property or temple.

 

[Supply&Demand]

We should also be allowed to insult the Hindu religion and defile all it's deities in the name of freedom of speech.

You do that everyday dude!! and u are given free pass too!

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

We should also be allowed to insult the Hindu religion and defile all it's deities in the name of freedom of speech.

If moderators let us have such freedom of speech which is being practices in US/France. Freedom to abuse anyone without fear of banning. Imagine what could happen in such topics

You do that everyday dude!! and u are given free pass too!

that is wrong. There are many topics about India which we cannot even discuss here. Read it

I hope you know freedom of 'speech' is limited to voicing your opinion, not destroying property or temple.

That was my point. I was talking about restriction on freedom of those who use it for insults and abusing others. Nothing against freedom of speech itself but people here denying any restriction on freedom of haters

 

[livingdead]

That was my point. I was talking about restriction on freedom of those who use it for insults and abusing others. Nothing against freedom of speech itself but people here denying any restriction on freedom of haters

No, that was not your point. My focus is on 'speech' not action. You are free to speak, (and you are guaranteed freedom in USA), but not commit act of violence.
So if you want to insult hindu gods by voicing your opinion,you have that right. You do not have right to destroy temple (nor the youtube video guy has right to destroy mosque).

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

No, that was not your point. My focus is on 'speech' not action. You are free to speak, (and you are guaranteed freedom in USA), but not commit act of violence.
So if you want to insult hindu gods by voicing your opinion,you have that right. You do not have right to destroy temple (nor the free speech youtube guy has right to destroy mosque).

when i claimed such rights? I am even against the right of insulting Hindu Gods in the first place for sake of insulting or provoking which bring nothing but disturbance. I see a huge difference between insult and criticism as explained in previous post. I should not have right to insult the sensibilities of religious person just like i should not have any right to insult any person because of his colour, race, sexual orientation or disability. People sue others for these hate crimes and racism because it don't contribute anything to society. Its all about respecting others and discuss the differences and disagreement in civilised manners without hurting others

 

[livingdead]

when i claimed such rights? I am even against the right of insulting Hindu Gods in the first place for sake of insulting or provoking which bring nothing but disturbance. I see a huge difference between insult and criticism as explained in previous post. I should not have right to insult the sensibilities of religious person just like i should not have any right to insult any person because of his colour, race, sexual orientation or disability. People sue others for these hate crimes and racism because it don't contribute anything to society. Its all about respecting others and discuss the differences and disagreement in civilised manners without hurting others

You does not mean 'you', it means anybody. I was just responding to somebody asking to disrespect hindu gods. It will be unpleasant to hear for hindus but I still believe its a small price to pay to defend a bigger goal of having a free society (and free speech is essential for a truely free society).
The right to blasphame and insult while voicing opinion should be one of the fundamental human rights.

Sadly Indian society is not really a free society, people are touchy about even small things, hence we still have hate speech law.

 

[Pride]

We should also be allowed to insult the Hindu religion and defile all it's deities in the name of freedom of speech.

And you think this doesn't happen in real world. Go and search for books/novels/youtube and you will find there are hundreds of such videos which makes mockery of Hindu Gods and Goddess but we never raised a Fatwa. Mind you, Most of them are coming from Pakistanis.

If you want to do that go ahead do it, I can simply sue you for the act but will never ever try to find you and kill you or started killing Pakistanis ambassadors across the world.

 

[Solomon2]

If i abuse your mum and you give me punch on my nose then we both should be blamed. I should blame for my abusing words and provoking and you should blame for violence.

What constitutes "abuse", in that case, would be something decided by a court of law - assuming one of us took the other to court, of course.

I am sure if someone made a film like this about the Jewish religion in USA you would be arrested and branded an anti-Semite

I doubt you'd be arrested but you'd probably still be "branded" an anti-Semite by polite society - Jews, Christians, and many Muslims, too.

 

[livingdead]

And you think this doesn't happen in real world. Go and search for books/novels/youtube and you will find there are hundreds of such videos which makes mockery of Hindu Gods and Goddess but we never raised a Fatwa. Mind you, Most of them are coming from Pakistanis.

If you want to do that go ahead do it, I can simply sue you for the act but will never ever try to find you and kill you or started killing Pakistanis ambassadors across the world.

Look what you or me do is not the point. There could be many hindus who will want to kill somebody who insulted hindu gods. Remember Hussain paintings?
The issue is what should be the law. Should the law protect free speech or curtail it in name of blasphemy.
I will support hussain's right to draw nude pictures of hindu goddess. Indian law should have protected him.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

You does not mean 'you', it means anybody. I was just responding to somebody asking to disrespect hindu gods. It will be unpleasant to hear for hindus but I still believe its a small price to pay to defend a bigger goal of having a free society (and free speech is essential for a truely free society).
The right to blasphame and insult while voicing opinion should be one of the fundamental human rights.

Free society should not ignore as basic moral as offending billions by insulting their Prophet. If one guy should have this freedom of abusing prophet of billions then those billions should have freedom of not hearing insulting remarks about their beloved Prophet. Hate is wrong even if you hide it behind US freedom of speech. Look at the price being paid to protect the insanity of some individuals to propagate hate messages.

 

[Pride]

Look what you or me do is not the point. There could be many hindus who will want to kill somebody who insulted hindu gods. Remember Hussain paintings?
The issue is what should be the law. Should the law protect free speech or curtail it in name of blasphemy.
I will support hussain's right to draw nude pictures of hindu goddess. Indian law should have protected him.

You know what those who want to kill him were bunch of Lunatic and their reason was because Hussain never apologized for the act and took other country's citizenship.

There could not be a law to protect for Blasphemy like our neighbors. Art is very perceptive to comment on and need to be discussed. For me Aseem Trivedi's act was seriously an act of criminal charges which other dont believe but then I have to be tolerant enough to ignore his act.

 

[livingdead]

Free society should not ignore as basic moral as offending billions by insulting their Prophet. If one guy should have this freedom of abusing prophet of billions then those billions should have freedom of not hearing insulting remarks about their beloved Prophet. Hate is wrong even if you hide it behind US freedom of speech. Look at the price being paid to protect the insanity of some individuals to propagate hate messages.

I guess you have already agreed in principle about having free speech (except the unpleasant bits that come with it).
The issue is, different people have different threshold of taking offence.
A cartoonist was jailed in India for showing parliament as toilet (on sedition charges). Courts threw out the charges immediately ofcourse.
Bal thakrey takes offence (on behalf of all hindus) about silliest of things.

You can never decide how much is too much. For your case of course it is religion for some it could be something else (political ideology, their sporting hero etc)

So after few years, threat of violence will sqeeze the free space further and further. It might start with not insulting prophet but might end up in not insulting bush.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

What constitutes "abuse", in that case, would be something decided by a court of law - assuming one of us took the other to court, of course.

I doubt you'd be arrested but you'd probably still be "branded" an anti-Semite by polite society - Jews, Christians, and many Muslims, too.

as i said before freedom of speech is not absolute in any democracy and it is not clear to define it and it is not clear to apply it. Can i make fun of others and insult those who belong to different race, colour, sexual orientation? do i have freedom to mock and insult them with my words? ..forget physical violence and just talking about using abusive words for people of different race, sexuality, disability ? What are considered hate crimes in USA? Why they considered hate crimes? why they don't let these crimes happen as long as you dont hurt others physically then you should have freedom to abuse them with your words ..no? why limit freedom of speech here and not there?

 

[Dubious]

I have seen many (hundreds) of low budget cartoon show and clips where they have mocked Jesus and Moses . And trust me no one have been arrested. Except Islam no one make such fuss...


If you don't trust me, google this "Youtube+Jesus+family guy" or "Youtube+Moses+family guy" or ''Youtube+Vishnu+family guy"

These are just some example, like wise many shows will be there.

The big deal for us is we practice our religion 5 times in 1 day! Not once a week! Not when we feel like but 5 times a day! Obviously we feel the impact when our important scripture (the quran) our prophet is "attacked" under the name of freedom of speech...

I mean why on earth do we teach our children to say sorry and accept their faults? Why do we teach them all this, isn't it to teach them right from wrong? Isn't it so that when they grow up IF they do wrong they apologize instead of becoming overly stubborn?

Isn't it wrong, if you stride a whole nation with your doings? Isn't that provoking? Should there not be laws against such stuff?

This is just my thinking...I do not bother your religion, your believes, your practices...Why interfere with mine? Isn't that what freedom to practice religion means?

If you do not understand/ look up, study my religion, how can you make cartoons/ movies/ documentry about it? That is like a spit on ART itself!

 

[livingdead]

as i said before freedom of speech is not absolute in any democracy and it is not clear to define it and it is not clear to apply it. Can i make fun of others and insult those who belong to different race, colour, sexual orientation? do i have freedom to mock and insult them with my words? ..forget physical violence and just talking about abusive words for people of different race. sexuality, disability ? What are considered hate crimes in USA? Why they considered hate crimes? why they don't let these crimes happen as long as you dont hurt others physically then you should have freedom to abuse them with your words ..no? why limit freedom of speech here and not there?

Raja, you seem to have ignored my earlier post in which I have refered to Rusdie's preference about american free speech (as opposed to european hate law).
Hate crime in USA requires physical action not speech.