Hypothetical Scenario: What if the Establishment reinstall Imran Khan?

[PakFactor]

Money is like water: Will also flow downhill--wherever there is more 'profit' in the more 'secure' way. I don't blame GCC to safeguard their own interests. Heck, even born and raised expat Pakistanis are not putting money into the former homeland.
BUT... I am no haste to give up on Pakistan. I consider the mayhem starting March 2022 as an exceptionally bad time for Pakistan and I think Pakistan is not in as hopeless situation as most of the PTI fanbois think. There is an evolutionary path forward, which will come from political stability in Pakistan and I see that path being established. I also think the Russia-Ukraine war's dynamics can greatly alter geopolitics in which Pakistan has a key role to play--who knows??




Bolded parts: My point exactly in this forum for over a year: Imran Khan is temperamentally not suited to be the topmost leader of a complex country like Pakistan. I don't think Imran's fanbois truly know how arrogant, stupid, self-centered Imran is. Not everyone, who was Imran's once close political ally and now speaking against Imran is doing so because of the repression. If they were THAT weak to have folded so quickly, and yet were allowed to be in Imran's close circle then it reflects really badly on Imran Khan! The truth maybe that they tried hard to guide Imran on major matters but Imran was too arrogant and these people know that Imran is history and better try their luck elsewhere.

Hope is good, but it has a limit to it. If you keep repairing the same road and the quality is terrible, it's a sunk cost over its lifetime that my friend is Pakistan. We've seen 75 years of it, and the older generation is accustomed to it, but not the newer generation information is at our fingertips, and even as you've seen, the flow can't stop. They played the same game with different players but forgot to see the change in the game's rules.

The Russian-Ukranian War has no bearing on Pakistan, and it was foolish even to think so; not every conflict worldwide needs Pakistan's input or actions.

In another thread, you mentioned Pakistan being a "security state" I agree with you and will state that is the problem. When you have a guns or butter approach, you apply it evenly or one over the other. The Russians failed despite being a powerful force during the Cold War, not because of Afghanistan but economically. Dwight E. Eisenhower put it perfectly in his speech, The Change of Peace. Dwight D. Eisenhower: The Chance for Peace (edchange.org)

The Russians didn't invest in the people, Health Care, Food, and Jobs and focused squarely on security. While the West put butter over the gun, it allowed various industries to thrive, slowly complimenting the military over time. We've been a security state far longer than the Cold War, and that's the stupidity of our people. India saw the way out, put butter over the gun, and you see where it stands today.

 

[Riz]

Khan doesn’t need any support from neutrals, free and fair elections will makes him solo king of this kingdom ..

 

[Meengla]

The Russian-Ukranian War has no bearing on Pakistan, and it was foolish even to think so; not every conflict worldwide needs Pakistan's input or actions.

I hope the Russia-Ukraine war doesn't become a regional war!! But if it does then Pakistan is not far off geographically as much I want Pakistan to totally stay out of that war. Already there are rumors of poor Pakistanis herded there to fight on one of the sides and in a regional war anything is possible. I will be very happy to be proven incorrect!!

The Russians didn't invest in the people, Health Care, Food, and Jobs and focused squarely on security. While the West put butter over the gun, it allowed various industries to thrive, slowly complimenting the military over time. We've been a security state far longer than the Cold War, and that's the stupidity of our people. India saw the way out, put butter over the gun, and you see where it stands today.

Contrary to what many people think, the Soviets invested heavily on education, health, well-being of people and in a mere 2-3 decades lifted tens of millions out of poverty of an agrarian, backward society which had just lost a lot in WW I and had years long civil war, and made the Soviets not just a military superpower but also a giant economy. The Soviet achievements are downplayed for obvious reasons, just like the Chinese achievements are being downplayed. BUT... from day one, the Soviet Union had also become a 'Security State' and they couldn't sustain to have a 'Welfare State' which they were trying to do while also being a Security State--that was not possible for long given what kind of forces they were against AND also the inherent flaws in the Soviet communist system.

And India has never been a Security State like Pakistan: India had advantages on Day 1 compared with Pakistan and India had no need to be. Also, a large part of Pakistan's problem has its roots in the feudal culture. For whatever reasons, which I suspect were rooted in Pakistan being a Security State, the political and the military leadership didn't change Pakistan to become a normal state.

 

[indushek]

Regarding CPEC from many sources, COAS Bajwa himself never liked the Chinese and was a hurdle in the way of CPEC. One way to put it is that the Chinese hurt Bajwa's ego, and the Security Forum with Moeed Yusuf should also give you a clue as to how he spoke about the Chinese and Pakistan's reliance on them as if the US was any better for Pakistan.

The sad reality is that the CPEC vision died long ago; even if built, it will be useless.

If we are to be honest, and I mean really honest, the West has overall been good for trade and rules based order in general.

If one is ready to put in the work, and is producing goods or services at required standard in general and play by set rules of markets, West benefits their customers monetarily. We can always talk about their hegemony, but then which power doesn't? At least they set the rules, and provided chances for others to reach a certain stage?

With China that is not the case, as the debt trap diplomacy has shown. I am sure Bajwa and Khan had known this, but went along not to upset the proverbial apple cart. After all one can be corrupt or narcissistic, but not the extent that one turns a blind eye to their own nation's or at least their own position's detriment.

Khan came into power in 2018 right? CPEC agreements were done even before that, so he must have noticed the debt trap. Maybe that is the reason he went slow on it

One can blame the parties who signed on the docs, but how much of a choice did they have, when a cash rich China came offering a too good to believe deal like CPEC? Perhaps they could have negotiated better for lower interest rates, but then its not a realistic argument either.

Overall I don't believe neither Khan or Bajwa liked what CPEC has come to be, as they are quintessentially Pakistanis.

 

[indushek]

Money is like water: Will also flow downhill--wherever there is more 'profit' in the more 'secure' way. I don't blame GCC to safeguard their own interests. Heck, even born and raised expat Pakistanis are not putting money into the former homeland.
BUT... I am no haste to give up on Pakistan. I consider the mayhem starting March 2022 as an exceptionally bad time for Pakistan and I think Pakistan is not in as hopeless situation as most of the PTI fanbois think. There is an evolutionary path forward, which will come from political stability in Pakistan and I see that path being established. I also think the Russia-Ukraine war's dynamics can greatly alter geopolitics in which Pakistan has a key role to play--who knows??




Bolded parts: My point exactly in this forum for over a year: Imran Khan is temperamentally not suited to be the topmost leader of a complex country like Pakistan. I don't think Imran's fanbois truly know how arrogant, stupid, self-centered Imran is. Not everyone, who was Imran's once close political ally and now speaking against Imran is doing so because of the repression. If they were THAT weak to have folded so quickly, and yet were allowed to be in Imran's close circle then it reflects really badly on Imran Khan! The truth maybe that they tried hard to guide Imran on major matters but Imran was too arrogant and these people know that Imran is history and better try their luck elsewhere.

I think the first and the last adjectives, might suit Mr Khan (depending on how we look at him again), but not the center one (I am slightly disagreeing here). If he is a stupid person, he wouldn't have reached this stage. Its impossible in this side of the world, to attain a status he did being stupid.

Not stupid, but short sighted maybe? started believing in his own infallibility? yes to these. Narcissism in people who go up the ladder, is not a uncommon thing. Particularly in this side of the world, where people die to do hero worship.

We can't blame his followers, cause they saw a great leader to be in him. In a country where no leader could be himself, without the Khaki approval to see a person like him, with least amount of corruption (ok I might get jumped on, but its no secret that if we go with strict definitions, favoritism is also a form of it. However for this side of world, that is being the best alas) to his name they jumped on the bandwagon.

I said this even before, when I started noticing more closely his statements. He speaks without thinking, many a times.

 

[Meengla]

I think the first and the last adjectives, might suit Mr Khan (depending on how we look at him again), but not the center one (I am slightly disagreeing here). If he is a stupid person, he wouldn't have reached this stage. Its impossible in this side of the world, to attain a status he did being stupid.

Of course I meant politically stupid. Otherwise, to quote Irshad Bhatti, who was until very recently a great Imran admirer 'You [Imran] had ten over, ten wickets, and ten runs to score and yet you still lost the match'. He was referring to Imran reaching new heights until just a few weeks ago.
And Imran's rise has a LOT to do with the military behind him fairly recently, otherwise he was in the political wilderness for most of his long political career. If rising to the top is the criteria then Musharraf had installed Zafarullah Jamali to the PM of Pakistan!

But Imran is otherwise a tireless person: He could be a great philanthropist, a great resource for environmental causes, and of course a great resource for cricket. And I think he is the financially cleanest of all the major players in Pakistani politics and is also a visionary in ways. There was much potential but was squandored.

 

[indushek]

Of course I meant politically stupid. Otherwise, to quote Irshad Bhatti, who was until very recently a great Imran admirer 'You [Imran] had ten over, ten wickets, and ten runs to score and yet you still lost the match'. He was referring to Imran reaching new heights until just a few weeks ago.
And Imran's rise has a LOT to do with the military behind him fairly recently, otherwise he was in the political wilderness for most of his long political career. If rising to the top is the criteria then Musharraf had installed Zafarullah Jamali to the PM of Pakistan!

But Imran is otherwise a tireless person: He could be a great philanthropist, a great resource for environmental causes, and of course a great resource for cricket. And I think he is the financially cleanest of all the major players in Pakistani politics and is also a visionary in ways. There was much potential but was squandored.

We seem to agree, and come back to same point again and again. A successful person, needs good advisors around him to go the extra mile.

Its kind of funny you know, to see Khaan and Modi on either side for me. You can think that am being biased but, if someone was shown Khaan and Modi side by side, and was asked -- tell me who is the successful one politically, 9 out of 10 will select Khaan. In 2014 Modi v Rahul was the same case, but the reality is so different. life is so strange isn't it?

Maybe we can go to roots and say, 'sab naseeb ka khel hai' at the end of the day.

 

[Neelo]

15 to 5

 

[Neelo]

So what should he IK's game plan going forward?

 

[RoadRunner401]

Duffers installing days are gone even PDM goons don't trust them anymore thats why they are having meetings outside the country.
Look at the recent pictures even inside the tent surrounded by troops whiskies body guards are carrying Guns in the open. Whisky is scared of his own shadow.

 

[Neelo]

PDM are the GHQ. Having meetings outside Pakistan means nothing. They go abroad for their own personal reasons.

They've been licking boots since 1988.

 

[Neelo]

Interesting protests…

 

[Neelo]

15 to 6

 

[Neelo]

@Jf Thunder read before making comments

 

[Neelo]

Patwaris mad