How to counter Gulf threat to Pakistan's integrity ?

[muse]

It does make sense partly but we damage just our brothers as you may say al-saud are the traitors then punishing whole of KSA for their sins wont be justified and same goes to UAE,Bahrain and qatar...Plus these are not the only hands once we get engaged with them the friends from east would come with their full force so its not easy...
Putting aside all sects we need to be united under one label and that should be Allah is the greatest and is the only ONE...We can then think about ways to keep our integrity intact and progress with respect..
And one more thing you dint mention so let me do the honors...Its not only KSA,UAE and other gulf states unfortunately Iran has been supporting unrest in balochistan previously and have given our arch rival india chabhar port to set her firm footprints in not only afghanistan but also till Car's...

So we cant fight alone with bombs with everyone we need to be rational and focused and use diplomacy where it can work, secret ops where they can work and then full fledge force where that is required but before that we need to be united ..If we will be divided like shias,sunnis,wahabis,punjabi,baloch,pathan etc we are not going anywhere but where our enemies wants us to be .....

I begin to understand you better. The only label we need is "Pakistani", our confession is our private business, and I would like to point out that our Gulf "brothers" as you put it, are responsible for more Pakistani soldiers and civilians dead than all Indo-Pak wars together - For these, yes, whether coercion or Diplomacy, so long as they are not only frustrated in their effort and are left unable to attempt it ever again.

 

[Albatross]

I begin to understand you better. The only label we need is "Pakistani", our confession is our private business, and I would like to point out that our Gulf "brothers" as you put it, are responsible for more Pakistani soldiers and civilians dead than all Indo-Pak wars together - For these, yes, whether coercion or Diplomacy, so long as they are not only frustrated in their effort and are left unable to attempt it ever again.

yeah I feel now that you have started to understand me. Once the word pakistani becomes strong enough to eliminate all the mistrust we have owing to our sects and ethnicity then gradually we may share our confessions as well hoping that other person would atleast give a thought instead of outrageously rejecting . Only that can spread the tolerance and harmony our religion has taught us .

 

[Armstrong]

As i have gone thread this thread, it's clear to me that at least most of us here, recognize who the enemy is and what ideology they are using against us and why -- but what I have not come across is how is this threat to be countered -- UAE is a tourist destination, it would be awful if bombs went off in their peaceful streets, and of course the Sodies too do not seem to realize that turn about is fair play.

How should we proceed, how do we actually counter the threat?

If it turns out that the Gulf Arabs are indeed behind all of this as it may appear to be the case then bombing them would be the last thing we should do. Because :

(a) We're atrociously bad on the diplomatic front to pull something off if Pakistan is exposed.

(b) When it comes to Public Relations both the ISPR & the Foreign Ministry are worse than bad.

(c) Even on the military front we don't exactly do a neat job of keeping things 'covert' !

(d) Add to that the element of Pan-Arabism & we would have handed the Arab Bloc over to India in a platter on an exponentially accelerated route than otherwise.

I'd say; build it up over a few years - Baloch in Oman supporting terrorist outfits in Baluchistan; concoct stuff, make documentaries, write articles, release provocative news excerpts, do talk shows, do a memorial or two on the many innocent Baluch & Non-Baluch alike killed in Baluchistan at the hands of these monsters & the sort...the whole package - In short whip up a sustained media frenzy spanning a few years as India or the United States does. Be smart about it.

Then look for any potential of an uprising in Oman or Qatar & repay them in kind.

 

[muse]

If it turns out that the Gulf Arabs are indeed behind all of this as it may appear to be the case then bombing them would be the last thing we should do. Because :

(a) We're atrociously bad on the diplomatic front to pull something off if Pakistan is exposed.

(b) When it comes to Public Relations both the ISPR & the Foreign Ministry are worse than bad.

(c) Even on the military front we don't exactly do a neat job of keeping things 'covert' !

(d) Add to that the element of Pan-Arabism & we would have handed the Arab Bloc over to India in a platter on an exponentially accelerated route than otherwise.

I'd say; build it up over a few years - Baloch in Oman supporting terrorist outfits in Baluchistan; concoct stuff, make documentaries, write articles, release provocative news excerpts, do talk shows, do a memorial or two on the many innocent Baluch & Non-Baluch alike killed in Baluchistan at the hands of these monsters & the sort...the whole package - In short whip up a sustained media frenzy spanning a few years as India or the United States does. Be smart about it.

Then look for any potential of an uprising in Oman or Qatar & repay them in kind.

Fair points, however, a, b, c, are only valid when the Pakistani state wants it that way - when the narrative has been built appropriately, these points will evaporate - as for point d, they can have it - you seem to think that Egyptians think any different about the Gulf than we do, they don't.

I'm all about being smart, but I don't think it should paralyze us - many in Pakistan and outside have come to accept paralysis as if it is the appropriate, quite the contrary.

 

[muse]

Albatross

Ralph Peters - Blood Borders

 

[hashirkhan]

i really think, we should go out of the **** called "ummah" or islamic brotherhood". india would be better than them. bcz they play a fair game. what the hell arabs are.

 

[hashirkhan]

This is why i created this thread , PDF in a way represents intelligent Pakistani's online around the world , they need to know the ball game being played. Let me assure you its us and God , we have no other friend this time , it will get dirty so we need to be prepared as i don't see these kings backing out , specially when they will go to any limit to appease the Almighty US to even slightly postpone their ultimate demise from power in the gulf.

Aeronaut. sir have u any one line answer that can we be out of this mess. another question, arabs are not our friends, west is not our friend, our neighbors including china and Iran are not our friends, what is the problem with us that we are having no sympathizers for Pakistan.

 

[hashirkhan]

I , must stress not to use term "Arabs" as its to general and takes our focus away from "Kings with interests" and also represents our Arab friends in a suspicious light. In a time when Pakistan is low on friends , we must preserve whatever is left and not make new enemies if we cant make new friends.

but my brother, these are my own ideas, don't mind, Arabs are the worst beast the world have ever seen. if the religion was not in Arabic, i would have pissed on Arabic. we should read Qur'an in Urdu or other languages such as English, Punjabi, Sindhi, Pushtu, balochi etc

 

[janu.bravo]

LOL...after watching and reading the whole thread, it looks like shia-sunni debate is going on foreign policies.

 

[Petrol]

Yes its a controversial topic , a thorny one , one of those topics which are usually hard to digest for an emotionally charged nation that is blinded by the jet wash of those fake emotions.

I have been recently looking into the role some Gulf states are playing in risking Pakistan's integrity. Its hard to believe given the smooth ride we have had with these states in the past. We have had great relations , they have helped us in every time we were in need and so did we.

But now the situation is weird , i see some of the gulf states , nominally UAE , Bahrain and Qatar are quite visible in harboring/sheltering BLA terrorists and their financiers [Saudi Arabia is not involved on any level] . UAE has been actively funding BLA terrorists while using PAF Base Shamsi as a base which was given as a "gift" to UAE's monarchy by Pakistan for hunting trips which facilitated their private planes. UAE lent that air base to Americans and because the drone strikes the issue came into light.

Speaking to some SSGs revealed that during targeted night strike ops against BLA , they discovered "sacks" of cash in their hideouts , most of that was the currency belonging to the gulf states i have mentioned. We also know they have been "gifting" super expensive cars to the sardars in the past.
Many of the top BLA terrorists are either living freely in above gulf states , have their financiers there or get unrestricted transit to other countries ie India or Europe.

The most striking case was that of Brahumdagh Bugti , the terrorist head of BRA. It was well known by Pakistani Intelligence apparatus that he was being sheltered by Americans through Karzai govt in Kabul to use him as a bargaining chip to bring Taliban to the negotiating table. However Karzai was forced to banish him , but not without an "Indian Passport".

He flew to Dubai to get a transit to Zurich from Kabul international air port. Mind you , BB was on ISI's terrorist watch list and they share intelligence with UAE. What "should" have happened is that as soon as they had an ID on BB , he should have been apprehended , put on the next military plane to Chaklala. But that didn't happen , he instead flew to Zurich Switzerland on a "Fake" Indian Passport.Qatar is playing its part through fabricated media reports to hype up the issue and Bahrain has a reasonable number of the BLA members hiding there who are financing their terrorist activities.

Now Pakistan must not have any doubts that we are NOT on the same page with the Gulf states on this matter. By sheltering the BLA members and financiers , they are posing a direct threat to Pakistan's national integrity and this is how exactly it needs to be taken and dealt with accordingly.As far as i am concerned , Gulf states are part of a Indo US plan to disintegrate Pakistan , these countries have no foreign policy of their own , moreover they are concerned over Gwadar port and its potential according to some reports.

There are a few things Pakistan can do.

1: Directly engage them diplomatically to make them stand down.
2: Ask Saudi Arabia at the same time to use its leverage over these kingdoms.
3: Engage with Chinese who have huge business interests in the gulf.
4: Diversify relations with Iran and synchronize strategy on BLA for help on Jindullah in return to counter these states diplomatically.


Please , share your thoughts.



* Don't forget to report Trolls & see the magic happen.

One should consider what Gulf States have done to Iraq, Libya and Syria before thinking any brotherhood with them. These are extremely selfish and self centered advocates of devil countries who will do anything to keep their oil selling in the global market.

The earlier role of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia into funding and arming terrorism in Pakistan and Afghanistan is visible for all.

The sect of islam promoted by Arabia is contaminated with teaching of violence, hate and terrorism against the state. This creates terrorist sleeper cells inside a country which can be put to action at a later date in future.

Numerous balouche rebels live legally in Saudi Arabia under special visa category provided to Baloch, Turkmen and Burmnese. Many balouche leaders have wed their daughters to sheikhs of UAE to strengthen their relations and secure leadership in future independent Balouchistan.

Pakistan needs to do more research in duplicitous nature of Arab culture and understand their evil nature.

Arabia only understand the language of power, diplomacy with them is rubbish. Pakistan and any strong Muslim country like Iran or Turkey is precived as a threat by GCC leadership. It hinders their efforts to propagate their image of wealth and power in directly relation to their piety. GCC therefore will always work from behind to undermine Pakistan until it becomes a weak puppet state.

Pakistan should morally support the revolution in Bahrain and arm Assad with anti-riot weapons much like it played a role in SriLanka!

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Yes its a controversial topic , a thorny one , one of those topics which are usually hard to digest for an emotionally charged nation that is blinded by the jet wash of those fake emotions.

I have been recently looking into the role some Gulf states are playing in risking Pakistan's integrity. Its hard to believe given the smooth ride we have had with these states in the past. We have had great relations , they have helped us in every time we were in need and so did we.

But now the situation is weird , i see some of the gulf states , nominally UAE , Bahrain and Qatar are quite visible in harboring/sheltering BLA terrorists and their financiers [Saudi Arabia is not involved on any level] . UAE has been actively funding BLA terrorists while using PAF Base Shamsi as a base which was given as a "gift" to UAE's monarchy by Pakistan for hunting trips which facilitated their private planes. UAE lent that air base to Americans and because the drone strikes the issue came into light.

.............

There are a few things Pakistan can do.

1: Directly engage them diplomatically to make them stand down.
2: Ask Saudi Arabia at the same time to use its leverage over these kingdoms.
3: Engage with Chinese who have huge business interests in the gulf.
4: Diversify relations with Iran and synchronize strategy on BLA for help on Jindullah in return to counter these states diplomatically.


Please , share your thoughts.



* Don't forget to report Trolls & see the magic happen.

@Aeronaut With NS being so close to the Saudi royal family and the likely next PM for five years, how can that help us with the BLA problem?

 

[474474]

I don't consider emiratis so cunning as to run an insurgency + propaganda campaign on their own or even with help - they are smart no doubt but not in that kind of way (but the others are just dumb - in every kind of way)

 

[Menace2Society]

These arabs states just take instructions from US, not very clever at all.

What Pakistan needs to do is become financially stable and independant. Then start exerting her influence in neighboring countries and then extend to the Gulf.

They need to understand the risks and rewards of their behavior.

If Pakistan were even more cunning they would fund militancy in the Gulf only for them to call on Pakistan to help them. Once we are there we can gain a foothold militarily and emulate the Ottoman rise in Arabia.

 

[Vinod2070]

If Pakistan were even more cunning they would fund militancy in the Gulf only for them to call on Pakistan to help them. Once we are there we can gain a foothold militarily and emulate the Ottoman rise in Arabia.

Plan to achchhha hai.

 

[RangerPK]

Now Pakistan must not have any doubts that we are NOT on the same page with the Gulf states on this matter. By sheltering the BLA members and financiers , they are posing a direct threat to Pakistan's national integrity and this is how exactly it needs to be taken and dealt with accordingly.As far as i am concerned , Gulf states are part of a Indo US plan to disintegrate Pakistan , these countries have no foreign policy of their own , moreover they are concerned over Gwadar port and its potential according to some reports.

There are a few things Pakistan can do.

1: Directly engage them diplomatically to make them stand down.
2: Ask Saudi Arabia at the same time to use its leverage over these kingdoms.
3: Engage with Chinese who have huge business interests in the gulf.
4: Diversify relations with Iran and synchronize strategy on BLA for help on Jindullah in return to counter these states diplomatically.


Please , share your thoughts.



* Don't forget to report Trolls & see the magic happen.

Makes since, UAE depends on its port for its finance, if you take that away, they are back to being desert of no use. Thus for them Gwadar is their existential threat. They are desperate to prevent Gwadar I guess. As for Iran, Iran is not really an ally of ours in this too. Iran also does not want Gwadar to be developed.

I guess, both Arabs and Iranians are arrogant, who do not want to see, Non Arabs or Non Iranians to prosper, their "egos" are to big to see others successful.



Not sure, what we can do....

Allah knows best. Allah forgive me if I said something wrong.

These arabs states just take instructions from US, not very clever at all.

What Pakistan needs to do is become financially stable and independant. Then start exerting her influence in neighboring countries and then extend to the Gulf.

They need to understand the risks and rewards of their behavior.

If Pakistan were even more cunning they would fund militancy in the Gulf only for them to call on Pakistan to help them. Once we are there we can gain a foothold militarily and emulate the Ottoman rise in Arabia.

I guess...Middle East is a Mess, it has been a mess as far as its history goes... better to stay away from that area. If we love diversity so much, we can become a open citizenship model, like USA, or Canada, where people can come to Pakistan and become its citizens, contribute to its, society , culture and Pakistan, as Pakistanis.

PS: I think Gwadar has already been developed as far as the port goes, but we still need infrastructure to connect gwader with, Afghanistan, and China, we need to develop our roads and rail for that. Also security and stability is also a concern...