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How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

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if you think india show off every thing then you are in dilemma :) ..

Read how india tested its nukes and read how you? it will clear your myth :)

India conducted nuke tests on 13 May 1998, while pakistan conducted tests after 2 weeks of these test. Does that means pakistan developed nukes within two weeks? No! Pakistan already had nukes but it was hiding it, and showed it to the world on right time.
 
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I wonder why you guys get so confused with performance of the radars alone when the US Government spent Billions of $$$ not on their radars but on stealth which is the ability to hide from radars by minimizing the RCS! If you can grasp that concept, you can understand that MKI with its massive RCS will light up radars all over Pakistan from a good distance which may just be the same distance by which MKI detects a JFT through it's powerful radar. Also, that powerful radar will be a homing beacon for ARM's from standoff ranges!

Let me also tell you something interesting, 1 thing that the F-15's/F-16's pilots learned from their exercises with F-22 was the fact that they could not get a lock on the Jet even through visual contact because the Jet would just not appear on the radars! That's the power of extremely low RCS.

And while we are at it, the only F-22 that has ever been shot even in exercise was shot down by an F-16 ;)



Because the missiles would self destruct as the target is of the same generation? That doesn't seem right, does it to you?

well USA spending lots of $$$ for Radar... but they share tiny portion of their capabilities to you...so your point is?
 
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India conducted nuke tests on 13 May 1998, while pakistan conducted tests after 2 weeks of these test. Does that means pakistan developed nukes within two weeks? No! Pakistan already had nukes but it was hiding it, and showed it to the world on right time.

again :rolleyes:

I mean that U.S dint know about our nukes and CIA failed to detect the location even by satellites but in your case they knew even that you sent a team on c-130 hercules to china and china is helping you and provided uranium.

but never stopped you guys due to rivalry with india :) and need in soviet war .

well its different topic, n i just say that dont think india keep every thing in open and even few people say that our PM even dont know where our nukes are stationed,he just controls the nuclear command and rest is under that command
 
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I am indeed comparing the systems against each other -

That is a mistake on your part than, modern warfare is not fought like this.

Pakistan having very small depth, very few AF bases, very low SAM systems is very likely to be bombarded by CM's in the first day of hostilities. SAM coverage is of prime importance here.

Rest be assured that Pakistan's SAM coverage is quite potent, just because it is not advertised does not mean it is not there. If you have been a regular reader of this forum, you must have read some of the revelations made by some of the members. Small depth makes it easier for PAF to create heavy kill boxes to sandwich incoming enemy bogies, thus its a two way streak for Pakistan. SAM's are mobile units and IAF would first need to locate them to bombard them with CM's. Most likely IAF is not to bombard potential SAM sites with CM's as you are advocating because that would be a pure waste of resource, most likely IAF will try to conduct SEAD missions to try to locate and eliminate SAM sites.

Pakistani bases are likely to be degraded as soon as war starts. On top of that if you have a foe that wields far bigger numbers is more than likely to overwhelm your defences within a short span of time.

Again a mistake on your part. PAF has built hardened shelters and extensive defensive arrangements to overcome enemy bombardment. There is no way IAF will degrade PAF's main bases as soon as the war starts, just a utopian fantasy of Indian fanboys. There is no doubt that IAF will send either strike packages or CM's on PAF's bases, but you do realize as soon as a strike hits, emergency crews immediately start repair work and activate contingency protocols. I think you should be more worried about IAF's strike planes such as MIG29 and SU30MKI which are extremely maintenance oriented and will require extensive maintenance before it can be launched again in the air. Compare that to PAF's assets which are simple and maintenance friendly and will be up in the air in a matter of minutes. Also owing to more pilots per aircraft, PAF will be able to launch more sorties per aircraft compared to the IAF heavy weights that require more maintenance.

I will reiterate my point again, what superiority of numbers are you talking about. Station 3 squadrons to cover your Northern flank; than split the remaining aircrafts for AD and CAS roles, how many aircrafts do you have left for AS?

India is not half as vulnerable as Pakistan to these threats

You wish, these are just make feel good statements. If India wasn't half as vulnerable, believe me she would have launched a strike in 2001 and 2008. But India is very well aware of her vulnerabilities, that is why she chose not to engage in a duel with Pakistan. I am firm believer of actions speaking louder than words, putting the words aside, the actions of Indian Armed Forces speak for themselves in the last decade about their vulnerability. Pakistan can cause equal amount of damage to India as India can cause to Pakistan, God Bless missiles for that.

not only are very good SAM's being procured and in good numbers, the bases are spread out, and present in the heartland of India. Even when these bases are targeted the defence is good in depth and assets to be fielded spread out.

The more spread out the bases are the more time to engage in sorties. In a modern warfare, timing is everything. He who looses time looses the war. You should know better. There is a reason why IAF is upgrading her defences in Ambala and airbases in Punjab because she realizes the importance of time. A delay in sortie is equivalent to loosing the battle.

Not the very least is the fact that to achieve the same level of degradation effect on IAF, Pakistan has to fire multiple times the number of missiles that India has to, for the same effect, just on account of bigger assets. Secondly the CM's themselves will be intercepted at a rate greater than Pakistan does.

That we will have to see. For IAF to effectively degrade PAF's assets, she will need to get close to the border to fire the CM's. As of now, SU30MKI's have not been integrated with Brahmos so most likely India would need to fire it from a ground based system which effectively decreases the range. While on the other hand PAF's can fire Raad from the air or PA can fire Babur from the land with greater ranges.
 
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well USA spending lots of $$$ for Radar... but they share tiny portion of their capabilities to you...so your point is?

Didn't get my point, did ya? Lots of $$ does not even come close to Billions of $$ (that's with a capital 'B')!

again :rolleyes:

I mean that U.S dint know about our nukes and CIA failed to detect the location even by satellites but in your case they knew even that you sent a team on c-130 hercules to china and china is helping you and provided uranium.

but never stopped you guys due to rivalry with india :) and need in soviet war .

well its different topic, n i just say that dont think india keep every thing in open and even few people say that our PM even dont know where our nukes are stationed,he just controls the nuclear command and rest is under that command

Actually, the C-130 that you dreamt of came back with 5 Nuclear Devices as we didn't even have a Nuclear device of our own let alone uranium! We then sent it back to get 2 more.
 
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Singaporeans are using Kalaikunda for training. They dont owe or operate the base. They pay rent to India for using it.

Singapore lacks Airspace of training. Some of their jets they end up in Malaysia immidiately after take off hence this arrangement.

Singapore Army has similar arrangement like this in Aussia where they practice tanks, artillery and infantry war games.
 
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Singaporeans are using Kalaikunda for training. They dont owe or operate the base. They pay rent to India for using it.

Singapore lacks Airspace of training. Some of their jets they end up in Malaysia immidiately after take off hence this arrangement.

Singapore Army has similar arrangement like this in Aussia where they practice tanks, artillery and infantry war games.

i thnk this thread is abt how paf will counter su30mki not the other way around
 
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I suggest you read up on ROSE upgrades and Grifo Mx Radars on PAF Mirages.




French Jammers???

i dont think upto rose 3 mairages r BVR capable bt i didnot have info about rose 4 bt this rose 4 program was cancelled bt PAC....
i didnot even heard of using BVR capability from mairage platform...
and u also heard that Pakistan got BVR capability with induction of JFT....
means mairages werenot BVR capable....
well let him beleive what ever he wanna beleive..
okaaa sir
LCA a dream
a jet not yet induced
is the best aircraft...
now happy sir??
well i feel very itchy discussing aabout things which didnot even happened. phewwww...:(
 
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Didn't get my point, did ya? Lots of $$ does not even come close to Billions of $$ (that's with a capital 'B')!



Actually, the C-130 that you dreamt of came back with 5 Nuclear Devices as we didn't even have a Nuclear device of our own let alone uranium! We then sent it back to get 2 more.

yepp americans dont know....
bt shec sina and his party workers knew. :D
 
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well USA spending lots of $$$ for Radar... but they share tiny portion of their capabilities to you...so your point is?

yeahhhh they r showing very less capability...:D
even they dont use their full capability in Afghanistan.....:D
they let their soldiers kill.....bt dont use full capability..:D
Afghanistan is a battlefround b/w a force using tech head to toe with mullas having ak 47.......
 
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It depends on what role is assigned to the airforce during an offensive situation and what the targets are.

A primary assumption being made, is that IAF tactics will be similar to the USAF/NATO tactic of going for SEAD missions at the onset of hostilities. Not necessarily true. The reason USAF/NATO goes for this is because of 2 reasons:

1. An adversary who has an airforce which is not close to the aggressor force.
2. To achieve air dominance over the determined airspace.

Pitching the IAF vs. PAF the above may not hold true. For e.g, during an armoured push the objective is to provide air cover from a defensive perspective not offense.

Second, objective need not be to degrade air defence radars, but, evade air defence radars. Both are different tactics for different objectives. Now, the main strength of the Su30 is less to do with the fact that you will see it fly over the land border, but, it has the capability to approach over lets say Balochistan after taking off from Lohegaon. complete its objective and get back. Now this is a problem for the PAF, not, a Su30 approaching over say Punjab or Rajasthan. The problem will be a Su-30 strike team approaching Karachi with a naval fighter escort of Mig 29Ks going after Pak Navy assets or Pak Naval destroyers or ports. Why will this be a more realistic tactic? You now need radar pointing in all directions AND over water.

And simply put you wont have 270 su30s taking on whatever number of f16s or jfts or sams. Objective is to avoid SAMs, and be beyond the defensive arc of the F16s and get out before the enemy is having time to react. This is not a boxing match where each is pushingpunches.

Importance is approach route, objective definition and evasion. If a standard strike package of 4 Sukhois are able to approach lets say Karachi and launch their missiles, it really does not matter if there are 100 f16s. The damage is done. In the same way, if you approach from land and send 50 Sukhois and run in to 5 F16s but 10 SAM sites it again pitches the favour on behalf of the Pak forces. So its really absurb sitting and saying i will detet you at that range and you will launch at this range.

Anyways, those are my 2 cents to the discussion. Please feel free to continue the tirade.
 
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