How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[batmannow]

BATMANN

The message is clear for everyone.

THE SU30MKI will celebrate a FULL DECADE of service next year.. in 2013.

The programme has been a MASSIVE SUCCESS with 157 jets in service as we speak and growing year in year out.

AS YOU CAN SEE they have already started the MLU pgramme to reduce RCS add AESA radars and new EW SUITES and new ramjet missles. THIS WILL COST OVER $2 BILLION over the next 5 years on all 270 jets.

TO DATE PAF is stil looking at suitable answers to the original SU30MKI FROM 2003 AND THE INDIANS ARE ENTERING into the SUPER SU30MKI ...

i ask again is the JF17 & small fleet of F16s enough ????????/

not enough, the truth is!
but why you keep assuming, that PAF will remain in this state?
problem has been solved , if PAF really needs it can go for J-16s next sunday, but there is no immediete threat of a extensive airwar with IAF, PAF is doing its research on different plateforms, which couldbe inducted at right time, to counter SU-30mki or rafeals.

 

[Storm Force]

Batmann

You asked when the first SUPER SUKHOI (UPGRADED MKI WILL ARRIVE)

The answer in 2014-2015....

It will take 5 years to upgrade around 150 flankers

I dont think ALL 272 SU30MKI will super mki (just half)

by the way have you seen the upgrade MIG29

FIRST 3 ARRIVED

 

[paul106]

Then you are making a flawed assumption based on your own field.
Within Business management there is also something known as managerial decisions and for that you try to maximize the contribution you are able to receive within your budget.
So if Product A and B are better suited for your immediate needs would you still go for product C when you can afford product A and B and their overall contribution to your capabilities will be greater than including product C within that budget?
The J-10 serves as a better replacement for the F-7 than the JF-17 since the Chinese have the budget for it.
The same way the F-16 served as a better candidate for airforces as compared to the F-20 tigershark.
The US has not bought the block-60 variant of the F-16.. does that mean that the USAF considers it inferior or that it is hedging its bets on the F-35?
Different "organizations" ..different environments...different needs.. different budgets...different decisions.

As for your last part, if you are here for the discussion.. you arent exactly setting a good example for yourself either.
If this is the level of BM being taught in NZ.. than god help the kiwis.





Posts like these dont deserve a reply. And in this case I am inclined to think that there is little more than jingoism in them.
please refrain from posting in this thread while it is being cleaned up from the likes of Jingos from both sides.

I perfectly understand your concern, please read my post again, I never told that JF17 is not suitable for PAF, at current situation JF17 is perfect for PAF. But my question is why it is not suited for China? when you make partnership particularly in defense, you just dont pour money in that you put your technical and well guarded secrete in that. so if China is saying that we made partnership with pak just of basis of friendship i dont buy it. they may be did experiment at half of the cost, as partner pakistan may share some development & manufacturing cost.

Ho ho, you know that F16 is one of the mainstay so far in US air wings? Yes USAF dont have Block 60+ and thay stoped at 52 or 52+ and see why because they are moving to more advance jet. block 60+ is for the business. so the reason of developing block 60/60+ is earn money. by the way F16 is not run by US govt own company... while JF17 manufacture/partner is Chinese govt own company. As i told you my friend there are motive of being partner to earn profit (any kind, be it technical, financial ).

so as i said the current specification of jf17 is suitable for PAF (I am dont know whats the specification of JF17), but its not suitable for china, so that means china was partner in this project to gain technical research, and just to check whats ability of their technis. so far china did not buy it that means china is not satisfied with JF17, but same time current JF17 is suitable for paf.

different institute different, products and standards no buddy deny that. but when you are being partner and fooling your other partner that yes its matter of concern. either China is not satisfied with JF17 and its sub-standard or China made partnership with pak to earn money/save money the project is not just friendship.
.
dont worry about Kiwi standard and education, i am sure its far better and up to the world standard.

 

[paul106]

Since when China is a south Asian country? better reinforce your geo knowledge before doing any research here.
Oh, you are not convincing me before you left here. Try it agian some other time. Good luck to you as well as a tutor for business management.


My typo leads to a chance of your trolling, sorry man.

my friend, you are not south asian but you are currently posting on south asian. as i said i dont generally interrupt in discussion and only observe. so i dont need to reainforce3 my geo knowledge but you need to learn the professional/polite debate. not for me not for any one else but for you. you have potential just need to change your attitude. so i inform.

no hard feelings. good luck.

 

[SQ8]

I perfectly understand your concern, please read my post again, I never told that JF17 is not suitable for PAF, at current situation JF17 is perfect for PAF. But my question is why it is not suited for China? when you make partnership particularly in defense, you just dont pour money in that you put your technical and well guarded secrete in that. so if China is saying that we made partnership with pak just of basis of friendship i dont buy it. they may be did experiment at half of the cost, as partner pakistan may share some development & manufacturing cost.

Ho ho, you know that F16 is one of the mainstay so far in US air wings? Yes USAF dont have Block 60+ and thay stoped at 52 or 52+ and see why because they are moving to more advance jet. block 60+ is for the business. so the reason of developing block 60/60+ is earn money. by the way F16 is not run by US govt own company... while JF17 manufacture/partner is Chinese govt own company. As i told you my friend there are motive of being partner to earn profit (any kind, be it technical, financial ).

so as i said the current specification of jf17 is suitable for PAF (I am dont know whats the specification of JF17), but its not suitable for china, so that means china was partner in this project to gain technical research, and just to check whats ability of their technis. so far china did not buy it that means china is not satisfied with JF17, but same time current JF17 is suitable for paf.

different institute different, products and standards no buddy deny that. but when you are being partner and fooling your other partner that yes its matter of concern. either China is not satisfied with JF17 and its sub-standard or China made partnership with pak to earn money/save money the project is not just friendship.
.
dont worry about Kiwi standard and education, i am sure its far better and up to the world standard.

China made the partnership for the basis of product representation. The PAF is accepted the world over for its professionalism and hence its stamp on Chinese manufactured or co-developed goods provides a willing PR boost for China.
Moreover, the transaction between Pakistan and China is transactional.Including giving China access and first preference to trade corridors, minerals..
China needs a bullwark to tie India down to the west.. or did at least.. and that is where the assistance of soft loans and grants comes in from. Hence the idea for the partnership is much more than friendship based on the Chinese just liking us.

Also,not to nitpick and maybe its an auto correct.. but its spelled nobody and not nobuddy.

 

[paul106]

China made the partnership for the basis of product representation. The PAF is accepted the world over for its professionalism and hence its stamp on Chinese manufactured or co-developed goods provides a willing PR boost for China.
Moreover, the transaction between Pakistan and China is transactional.Including giving China access and first preference to trade corridors, minerals..
China needs a bullwark to tie India down to the west.. or did at least.. and that is where the assistance of soft loans and grants comes in from. Hence the idea for the partnership is much more than friendship based on the Chinese just liking us.

Also,not to nitpick and maybe its an auto correct.. but its spelled nobody and not nobuddy.

yes thats what i am talking about what you said is may be 40% part. but the other things which even pakistan is not aware are in the mind of china. you said was Geo-strategy. but with this military and technological strategy are also associated.

one more thing from you post. they want, india is engage on one side of its border unsecured. but for that they need to give pakistan top notch fighter. the option are j10/j11/and the stealth (sorry i dont recall name, as i am not associated with defense.) But at current stage pakistan can not afford that jet. so the china got strategic depth but the didnt gave its best tech jets to pakistan.

 

[SQ8]

yes thats what i am talking about what you said is may be 40% part. but the other things which even pakistan is not aware are in the mind of china. you said was Geo-strategy. but with this military and technological strategy are also associated.

one more thing from you post. they want, india is engage on one side of its border unsecured. but for that they need to give pakistan top notch fighter. the option are j10/j11/and the stealth (sorry i dont recall name, as i am not associated with defense.) But at current stage pakistan can not afford that jet. so the china got strategic depth but the didnt gave its best tech jets to pakistan.

Not accurate either.. the Chinese have offered the J-10B.. and the J-11 to Pakistan.
The J-31 for eg is also on offer. ..but with the current economic situation the PAF is already at the edge of its budget and hence gets to choose carefully what it gets.

China has unequivocally offered to give PAF all it wants.. and all the loans that PAF wants to buy them.. after all for China it is a win-win situation. Pay the soft grants to your own economy to fund an industry. However, there is something called goodwill that goes into a relationship and the PAF does not want to strain that beyond acceptable levels.
It does not wish another US-Pakistan relationship where the US people are demanding accountability for their money going to Pakistan in the name of WoT(when the true picture is not being represented).

So its the PAF that is limiting its borrowings and managing a budget.. not the Chinese who are more than happy to fund all the J-11's and J-31's the PAF wants.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Batmann

You asked when the first SUPER SUKHOI (UPGRADED MKI WILL ARRIVE)

The answer in 2014-2015....

It will take 5 years to upgrade around 150 flankers

I dont think ALL 272 SU30MKI will super mki (just half)

by the way have you seen the upgrade MIG29

FIRST 3 ARRIVED

Man ur capitals are funny.U keep doing it in every post lol.

 

[paul106]

Not accurate either.. the Chinese have offered the J-10B.. and the J-11 to Pakistan.
The J-31 for eg is also on offer. ..but with the current economic situation the PAF is already at the edge of its budget and hence gets to choose carefully what it gets.

China has unequivocally offered to give PAF all it wants.. and all the loans that PAF wants to buy them.. after all for China it is a win-win situation. Pay the soft grants to your own economy to fund an industry. However, there is something called goodwill that goes into a relationship and the PAF does not want to strain that beyond acceptable levels.
It does not wish another US-Pakistan relationship where the US people are demanding accountability for their money going to Pakistan in the name of WoT(when the true picture is not being represented).

So its the PAF that is limiting its borrowings and managing a budget.. not the Chinese who are more than happy to fund all the J-11's and J-31's the PAF wants.

At current situation, in my belief pakistan should go to J series if they have options. but i am sure your govt know better.
I should ask for the source of news (Chinese offer) but i will not. as i am not interested in that. I just want to talk to resonably polite person, which you are.

thanks for nice debate, i highly appreciate your scene of debate, intellectual skills.

enjoy rest of the day.

 

[Donatello]

Not accurate either.. the Chinese have offered the J-10B.. and the J-11 to Pakistan.
The J-31 for eg is also on offer. ..but with the current economic situation the PAF is already at the edge of its budget and hence gets to choose carefully what it gets.

China has unequivocally offered to give PAF all it wants.. and all the loans that PAF wants to buy them.. after all for China it is a win-win situation. Pay the soft grants to your own economy to fund an industry. However, there is something called goodwill that goes into a relationship and the PAF does not want to strain that beyond acceptable levels.
It does not wish another US-Pakistan relationship where the US people are demanding accountability for their money going to Pakistan in the name of WoT(when the true picture is not being represented).

So its the PAF that is limiting its borrowings and managing a budget.. not the Chinese who are more than happy to fund all the J-11's and J-31's the PAF wants.

I think PAF will get J-31 or J-10 anyway. It's just waiting for the MMRCA of India to materialize. J-31 will guarantee a parity in the stealth aircraft class in the region. J-10B offers PAF it's customizations as required to counter the MMRCA. So i think it is right that we should wait a couple more years. See where the political leadership takes us, where the economy is heading and how the foreign relations fare up.

Indian members who come here bashing have no clue to what they are talking about.

 

[MastanKhan]

1. read my post gain i have written customer/partner. customer in the seance your half work/product.
2. agree pak is not rich as china. but as per my knowledge pak is taking JF17 on loan, not on hard cash.
3. true. that means JF17 is not suite to China. even as point defense role. so JF17 is sub-standard. J11b and J10 is par on expectation.

mate i am not here to argue. as i am neither interested in defense nor defense personal. i am instructor/tutor for business management. I visit this page forum because i want to understand the debating ability of south asian and tolerance as it will be useful in my research and teaching. generally i dont post, I just observe and do my research. but from your post i liked to play with you so i did. mate take my free advise you need to improve lot in your interpersonal skills.

on this forum i have encountered your posts are some of the most inefficients and i clearly judge your ability of debate.

best of luck for your future.

I rest my case. and thanks for being one of the candidate.

Senor,

Como estas ---- where is the deceit in your post---. If you or the readers missed it---it is in your diction---it is very poor in relation to what you state to be your education and ethnic background.

Then there is your poor attempt to be so pure and above every body by declaring who you want to discusss with---.

PAF does not think that the JF 17 is any better than any indian air craft---but it does know that in the end---if it can deploy and launch missiles to reach the opponent and touch them---then the job is considered done---. That is the first goal---.

 

[niaz]

The discussion comparing SU30 MK1 & JF17 has been going on for a very long time and there is hardly any parameter that has not been analysed to the point of boredom. My Indian friends must understand that PAF never claimed nor did the Chinese that JF17 was equal to SU30. The fact that PLAAF has bought additional Su30 despite being the designer and producer of JF-17 is proof enough.

There are limitations on what Pakistan can afford; additionally there are restrictions on what Pakistan can buy even if it she could afford to pay. It is also a fact that Indian Defence expenditure is more than total country budget of Pakistan! Thus PAF is not in a position to match IAF in men and material.

Pakistan however needs a credible conventional deterrent. JF-17 costs about half of what SU-30 would cost if Russians agreed to sell it to us and except for the power plant, it is not prone to sanctions. JF17 is the best option available to Pakistan as work horse. Pakistan is buying limited numbers of J10 to counter IAF's qualitative edge.

 

[bloo]

Posts like these dont deserve a reply. And in this case I am inclined to think that there is little more than jingoism in them.
please refrain from posting in this thread while it is being cleaned up from the likes of Jingos from both sides.

I don't see what part of my post was "jingoism".
You are discussing about countering a Su-30MKI so I really don't think any part of what I said was unrelated.
Or is it that people will accept everything as long as it is the way they want it to be.

Armed with 5G jet features, Super Sukhoi on the way...
September 12, 2011 Sergei Ptichkin

SUPER SUKHOI SU30MKI which is only 12-24 months away ...

that was September 12, 2011, & this is december 16th 2012? so where it is?lol
is it also from some one said or you can show us delivery notice?
ADD T50/FGFA technology to this jet
why thn to spend huge funds on T50/FGFA?
any way we got the answer, J-16 now even you put a rapptor,s A..S into it, still it wiould be called a SU-30MKIiiiiiiiiiiiii , its up to you how many of iiis you can put in it?lol

Regardless of your condescension the "Super 30" program will happen and it may not be 5G but PAF will still find it hard to counter.

@Storm Force No it is not 12-24 months away, the deliveries will not start before 2016.

 

[SQ8]

I don't see what part of my post was "jingoism".
You are discussing about countering a Su-30MKI so I really don't think any part of what I said was unrelated.
Or is it that people will accept everything as long as it is the way they want it to be.






Regardless of your condescension the "Super 30" program will happen and it may not be 5G but PAF will still find it hard to counter.

@Storm Force No it is not 12-24 months away, the deliveries will not start before 2016.

Think about what you said right there and it suits you entirely.
As long as your MKI Bachan wins.. you are happy.
And have refused to accept any argument that gives the possibility of the contrary at any stage.
Juvenile to say the least.

 

[danger007]

oscar sir, this thread should be closed. I dön't find any useful arguments. And also take care of 16 bsf ...thread. too much $hit going on..