How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[alimobin memon]

LOTS OF HOT AIR and heavey breathing regarding RCS and radars

People are concentrating on only 2 things RCS and range of radar.

THE DIFFRENCE in the 2 planes is far more complex (too complex for 99% of us in this forum)

FOR A START

SU30MKI carries a PESA tech radar. PESA radars fall between the AESA technology and the much older MSA radar found on 3rd generation fighters..

JF17 carries a older Mechanical sterring atenna radar. THIS means despite the boasting of radar ranges ITS realatively easier to jam by the SU30MKI elta jammers and IT processes data at only half the speed.

Your arguments over who wil,spot who are so flawed and all these rash assumptions of we have better pilots and you will be over PAK airspace are just HOT AIR

I suggest you all read up a neutral western source on the evolving PESA radar tech,, TVC on fighters like SU30MKI F22 & J20 & PAK FA before you contribute...

Since when an MSA radar became third generation , PESA is not good as u think, sending many signals of same frequency doesn't make MSA fool enough to make it vulnerable .only AESA which sends different signals of different frequency , Ask any think tank what has tvc given rather than aerobatic display ....

 

[abdulbarijan]

Representatives of NRIET at the Chinese defence electronics exhibition told Jane's in early April that the KLJ-7 radar installed in the FC-1/JF-17 - the fighter aircraft developed jointly with Pakistan - has undergone improvements from its original configuration. The system can now "manage up to 40 targets, track up to 10 in track-while-scan [TWS] mode and engage two targets simultaneously", they said.
China's NRIET outlines fighter radar improvements - Jane's Defence Weekly

 

[alimobin memon]

This news and brochure is from 2008 april , improved klj7 was 2010 development

 

[MiG-21]

Representatives of NRIET at the Chinese defence electronics exhibition told Jane's in early April that the KLJ-7 radar installed in the FC-1/JF-17 - the fighter aircraft developed jointly with Pakistan - has undergone improvements from its original configuration. The system can now "manage up to 40 targets, track up to 10 in track-while-scan [TWS] mode and engage two targets simultaneously", they said.
China's NRIET outlines fighter radar improvements - Jane's Defence Weekly

As a result of those improvements, the current range is now 85km for 5m2. Check the date of that publication.

Check the date of this one - KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China) - Jane's Avionics
"The radar can reportedly manage up to 40 targets, monitor up to 10 of them in Track-While-Scan (TWS) mode and can engage two targets simultaneously at BVR. The detection range for targets with an radar-cross section of up to 3 square metres is 75 km look-up, or 35 km in look-down mode."

improved klj7 was 2010 development

Source?

 

[alimobin memon]

As a result of those improvements, the current range is now 85km for 5m2. Check the date of that publication.

Check the date of this one - KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China) - Jane's Avionics
"The radar can reportedly manage up to 40 targets, monitor up to 10 of them in Track-While-Scan (TWS) mode and can engage two targets simultaneously at BVR. The detection range for targets with an radar-cross section of up to 3 square metres is 75 km look-up, or 35 km in look-down mode."

Man this is jan 2009. Klj7 has been further improved in range. The posts from jane are back from 2009 it is not updated .

I think pakistani and Indians both are right. Only real combat can prove what is what. Nobody from both side will agree to the opposing one lets stop this discussion

As a result of those improvements, the current range is now 85km for 5m2. Check the date of that publication.

Check the date of this one - KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China) - Jane's Avionics
"The radar can reportedly manage up to 40 targets, monitor up to 10 of them in Track-While-Scan (TWS) mode and can engage two targets simultaneously at BVR. The detection range for targets with an radar-cross section of up to 3 square metres is 75 km look-up, or 35 km in look-down mode."


Source?

kanwa news reported there are no immediate plans of replacing the Klj-7 which has a range of "130km" for a fighter size target.

probably with just slight tweaks we can achieve 140-150km range..which is more than enough

and kanwa quoted a high range PAF official

by farhan 990_9

 

[abdulbarijan]

As a result of those improvements, the current range is now 85km for 5m2. Check the date of that publication.

Check the date of this one - KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China) - Jane's Avionics
"The radar can reportedly manage up to 40 targets, monitor up to 10 of them in Track-While-Scan (TWS) mode and can engage two targets simultaneously at BVR. The detection range for targets with an radar-cross section of up to 3 square metres is 75 km look-up, or 35 km in look-down mode."


Source?

Man just see the official claim....range is 105 Km for 5m2 ....and thats that...

 

[MiG-21]

kanwa news reported there are no immediate plans of replacing the Klj-7 which has a range of "130km" for a fighter size target.

probably with just slight tweaks we can achieve 140-150km range..which is more than enough

and kanwa quoted a high range PAF official

by farhan 990_9

I know about the "130km for fighter sized target" story. If I were you I'd wait for a bit longer before the finer details of that figure emerges. We all saw what happened to the 10,000kgf RD-93 story.

 

[alimobin memon]

The radar of block 1 is tweaked by PAC this is CATIC international advertisement brochure . Don't believe then don't. I believe because i know it ... As for indians asking for Source .if u ask from me the source is

This is not secret but source is

 

[abdulbarijan]

The radar of block 1 is tweaked by PAC this is CATIC international advertisement brochure . Don't believe then don't. I believe because i know it ... Source if u ask from me the source is

This is not secret but source is

Oi Allah dia bandia...

Im replying to somebody whose saying it has 85 Km range for 5m2.
Now as for 130 km range could be that V2 is already ready....and i know about the claims...the dubai claim of upgradation,then the javaid ahmed interview.... i already know all about that,,,

 

[alimobin memon]

From both the sides we have read the valid reasons for what is better /// Real combat can only prove one wrong so lets just stop the argument and wait for further developments

Oi Allah dia bandia...

Im replying to somebody whose saying it has 85 Km range for 5m2.
Now as for 130 km range could be that V2 is already ready....and i know about the claims...the dubai claim of upgradation,then the javaid ahmed interview.... i already know all about that,,,

Sorry bhai i was editing galti se galat post kardiya
V2 is another story Block 1 radar has been upgraded to 130 km

 

[abdulbarijan]

I know about the "130km for fighter sized target" story. If I were you I'd wait for a bit longer before the finer details of that figure emerges. We all saw what happened to the 10,000kgf RD-93 story.

we all have seen the very steep vertical climb too....for the guys that still believed that T/w ratio was not over 1...LOL!

From both the sides we have read the valid reasons for what is better /// Real combat can only prove one wrong so lets just stop the argument and wait for further developments



Sorry bhai i was editing galti se galat post kardiya
V2 is another story Block 1 radar has been upgraded to 130 km

I just hope what ur saying is true...

 

[MiG-21]

Man just see the official claim....range is 105 Km for 5m2 ....and thats that...

Just think its suspicious as I previous mentioned. In any case, I don't wish to dwell on it further.
And one more fast fact, that famous brochure may indeed be official but it was not taken from any official website. It's from Prasun K Sengupta who scanned it and posted on his blog.

we all have seen the very steep vertical climb too....for the guys that still believed that T/w ratio was not over 1...LOL!

T/W depends on amount of fuel and payload. You load just 500kgs for a few minutes flight display, it gives a T/W of 1.17 for JF-17.

I can't believe you ppl are still holding on to that 10,000kgf nonsense!!

 

[abdulbarijan]

Just think its suspicious as I previous mentioned. In any case, I don't wish to dwell on it further.
And one more fast fact, that famous brochure may indeed be official but it was not taken from any official website. It's from Prasun K Sengupta who scanned it and posted on his blog.

So thank u again, ur quoting an Indian source who took the brochure of CETC (the manufacturer) scanned it and it gives u a range at 105 Km... You have a 2 in 1 here ( Indian + official source) so i dont think you should deny it any further..

T/W depends on amount of fuel and payload. You load just 500kgs for a few minutes flight display, it gives a T/W of 1.17 for JF-17.

I can't believe you ppl are still holding on to that 10,000kgf nonsense!!

And i cant believe you believe that JF-17 was using its full after burner thrust at an airshow....

Dont forget first claims were of 83-84 Kn engine power and suddenly it becomes about 86 KN at izmir...

Surprise surprise

 

[MiG-21]

So thank u again, ur quoting an Indian source who took the brochure of CETC (the manufacturer) scanned it and it gives u a range at 105 Km... You have a 2 in 1 here ( Indian + official source) so i dont think you should deny it any further..

Indian Source? That is not an indian source, that is Prasun Sen Gupta. Looks like you don't know much about that guy.

He also claims,
"The MLU kits for the PAF's original 40 F-16A/Bs and 26 F-16A/Bs did contain the APG-68(V)9radar but this component of the order was later withdrawn at Pakistan's request after the 2005 earthquake due to budgetary constraints. The MLU package now includes only the structural life-extension programme and installation of upgraded defensive aids suites and comms suites, both of which are US-origin hardware but will be installed jointly by TAI and ASELSAN in Turkey."

So lets believe that as well.

And i cant believe you believe that JF-17 was using its full after burner thrust at an airshow....
Dont forget first claims were of 83-84 Kn engine power and suddenly it becomes about 86 KN at izmir...
Surprise surprise

It was using full afterburner.
Watch JF-17 vs F-16 vs MiG-29 Turn Rate Comparison Video | Break.com

 

[jha]

what is RCS of a Predator drone ?

Hahahaha... That was naughty....